New terror attack in London UK

[STEVIL]

I'm curious as to the OP's comment that he's upset that the gov't "let" this happen. I wonder how you arrive at that accusation. From what I could hear from the maniac with the cleaver in the vid, he had a British accent which makes me wonder how long he might have been in the UK. I mean, we have more than our fair share of mentally deficient waste-oids that do heinous sh*t like kill abortion doctors and others in the name of their gods but I don't think anyone figures it's government's fault. To people who might think like the killers do, they're martyrs. To everyone else, they're worthless scum who deserve slow, painful deaths. Terrible incident there today but how is it the gov't's fault? The question is sincere. Please enlighten me.

 

Can't say I mentioned the Government! What I'm talking about is the wishy washy way in which my fellow countrymen will not stand up and fight! A great example is if you watch further footage, how everyone just stands around rubbernecking, and taking photos and videos on their iphones. What has happened to my country, when there are so many people standing around doing nothing - at least gather on mass and put these mothers down, ram them with a car or something. Also, how in the name of dear God did it take the police 20 minutes to arrive on the scene? I don't know what is more sickening, the murder itself, or lethargy shown by mankind, as they see a fellow human being hacked to death in front of their eyes - and do sweet f*** all about it.

 

Edit: These guys are home grown Muslims apparently, hence the south London accents.

[Flight959]

This appalling murder in Woolwich is another step towards the dehumanisation of our society.

 

A human being had his life taken by two callous thugs and what did Joe Public do? He videoed it on his mobile phone.

Remember when people used to step up and intervene?

Now we have a society where people have by-stander mind sets because they've never had to make a decision or do anything to actually shape their lives or welfare.

No, we have to suffer the various media outlets pedalling their usual mix of, slow police response, inadequate police response combined with "police shoot two in front of the public".

I truly despair.

No one has actually said anything meaningful on the tv or radio or looked at the whole picture and what this says about the people who stood by and watched this happening.

A generation of morons who consider footballers heroes. Desperate times.

[IanHenry]

One woman did confront them:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/woman-confronted-woolwich-pair-215229978.html#9rFFzdx

 

I do think there is a war going on throughout the world, it's just that one side hasn't woken up to it yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6SkaFMTihI& feature=youtu.be

[pippy]

...It seems more Good vs Evil, Sanity vs Insanity! Regardless, of country or borders...

The difficulty is different peoples have different ideas about who, and what, belongs to which of the above groups.

 

Have a guess as to which extremist religious organisation has this (excerpt) posted on one of the opening pages of their website;

"... we will be a Spirit-filled, radical growing movement with a burning desire to lead people into a saving knowledge of....X...

There is only one...X..., who is infinitely perfect, the Creator, Preserver, and Governor of all things, and who is the only proper object of religious worship."

 

People worldwide are being indoctrinated and brainwashed into believing this religiously exclusive declaration of their own superior morality.

Is it any wonder peoples from other religious beliefs find this officially published doctrine offensive and ideologically unacceptible?

 

P.

[Bender 4 Life]

this is the very reason i'm not only glad, but PROUD, to live in one of only 6 states in which the taking of an attackers' life during the HONEST DEFENSE of an innocent being attacked with lethal force.....is not a crime.

 

in 44 of our 50 states, it's illegal.

 

the extremists will never give up, never back down.....average Police response time here is 23 minutes.

 

the extremists better stay out of Alabama !!

[IanHenry]

Although I'm very much in the anti gun fraternity ( I find it difficult to understand the obsession with carrying gun in the U.S, but I don't want to re start that debate), given the events yesterday, things could have been different if the British people carried firearms.

[btoth76]

this is the very reason i'm not only glad, but PROUD, to live in one of only 6 states in which the taking of an attackers' life during the HONEST DEFENSE of an innocent being attacked with lethal force.....is not a crime.

 

in 44 of our 50 states, it's illegal.

 

the extremists will never give up, never back down.....average Police response time here is 23 minutes.

 

the extremists better stay out of Alabama !!

 

Hello!

 

I am really envy for that!

 

However, my garden is big enough...and, I guess, nobody would look for such bastards...if something would happen here.

 

Bence

[Guest Farnsbarns]

I find it abhorrent when events like this occur and people use it as an opportunity to rant about their favourite political peev. Let's just keep to the specific events of yesterday. Have some respect, people.

[saturn]

Well, the problem is, the west bends over backwards to accommodate the views of those people, but they make no effort to integrate with the society that they or their parents wanted to be a part of. I was reading an article a while ago about an old farmer from Pakistan who wanted to move to the U.K because he had some family here. The guy spoke no English and made it clear that he had no intention of trying to learn, so why would he want to come? I'm sure the free health care and old age pension had no bearing on his desires!

 

Ian.

P.S Whilst the hospital cares for the wounds of the perpetrators of this monstrous act, it should be remembered that putting salt in the wounds is a very good antiseptic, it worked for Nelson's navy.

 

Yes. And then, as it's happened around the world so many times, they eventually drive everyone else away neighborhood by neighborhood and become a majority in that area. Inevitably they don't want to live under the host country's laws, and justify a separate state of their own on the host country's territory. Just ask the Serbians about that.

[btoth76]

So, what is the conclusion then? We know it's going to happen, and we will watch it happen?

 

Just curious, how this can be resolved? Any civilized ways? I doubt that. What (more) needs to happen to make people act? Obviously, those up there will keep on looking for PC excuses.

 

That's very saddening...

 

And this isn't taking the "opportunity to rant about ... favourite political peev". It's nothing political about the desire to live in security in our own homeland. When would it be OK to talk about this problem? According to our very accepting, over-civilized, politically-correct european ways: never.

[Searcy]

It's a damn shame that someone didn't shoot these two assholes dead.

[fingers galore]

Savages! I can`t believe all those people not jumping in and lynching those animals! They had plenty of time before the cops arrived!

 

Consider this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqfbeuZf-n8

 

 

Propaganda? Hard facts? You decide. I try not to judge people as a whole. I judge them on their own merits and behavior. I know some muslims. Most of them behave like any other civilized person. Even they despise the ragheads and burka wearing people. Many of us find that not enough muslims speak out against violence and terrorism. So do I! However, a few years ago I started watching the Al Jazeera news channel in english and was surprised to find that they, in fact, do a very good job of reporting fairly and justly. Terrorism and/or atrocities performed by any group, muslim or not, are reported unbiased with the same fair treatment and outrage. I was expecting Al Jazeera to be Taliban Propaganda Television. Refreshingly, nothing could be further from the truth.

 

I believe the real evil to be Sharia Law! The fight against Sharia Law will be the most crucial battle in the coming decades if civility and freedom are to prevail, imo. It may well become the biggest battle in the history of the world. I know one thing, I will never stand by and let Sharia Law be implemented in our society. This is call to arms!

[btoth76]

Hello!

 

I agree with You! Just want to slightly alter Your statement, as far as I am concerned: ALL supremacist actions must be very strictly persecuted by law. And when I say ALL, I really mean each and every form of it. The concealed ones too!

 

Bence

[D28boy]

We have that in every town and city in the UK now and the leaders do nothing about it. They don't want to be a part of our society. They want to take it over.

ISLAM......Coming to a town near you, very soon!!

 

Sorry....not true. Why do you always want to paint a worse picture of the UK than is the reality? If you don't like it get out. We do not have this happening in every British town . These are organised protests which unfortunately under our laws have to be allowed. The police however do have a right to act if they believe that the protestors are inciting illegal activity or are infact racially abusive..

[RowdyMoon]

When in Rome..........I just cannot stand anyone who comes (or is born) to our countries and enjoys all the fruits it has to offer ( health education freedoms etc) and then pulls **** like this....in the end it does nothing for their joke movement but p!ss us off.

[charlie brown]

Well, as the old saying goes: "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph,

is for good men to do nothing!" (Edmund Burke)

 

Some other, of his very wise quotes:

 

http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/17142.Edmund_Burke

 

 

CB

[charlie brown]

However, it's now being reported, that a 48-year old Mother, intervened,

to try to keep the attackers "calm" and from doing any further violence.

 

So, when good men, did nothing...looks like a woman DID!

 

 

CB

[milod]

I'll return to the comment about guitar-playing cultures.

 

Note that nobody in the hate march shown in one of these videos was playing guitar and singing "protest songs." Instead it was a shouting march stating more or less that if you're not Muslim, or if you do anything unwanted "to" a Muslim, regardless of his or her crime, you are literally going to Hell. The inference too, is that such descent to a painful afterlife should be assisted by Muslims against the unbelievers.

 

The past cupla centuries in "European" cultures has been toward increasing acceptance of a wide variety of religious beliefs and acceptance of persons holding those beliefs in public office, etc. For the most part, that has not been a problem. Most of "us" look at targeted violence, personal or governmental, of persons not of mainstream religious (or even anti-religious) views as being nasty and a crime against humanity.

 

The more "successful" Asian cultures, the Chinese, Japanese and Koreans, have tended to reflect somewhat similar perspectives in that same time period. Note that they increasingly play guitar.

 

To me, in a sense, "guitar playing" is the old "canary in the coal mine" that indicates early whether there is a dangerous situation in the miners' atmosphere. For "us," guitar playing can indicate whether a culture can manage to adapt to a sufficient degree of international culture for the rest of us to work with.

 

Guitar is a "multicultural" instrument as is the violin. Yet the cultures that use these musical instruments and the kind of music reflecting cultural commonalities, can long-term function together.

 

Cultures where the music and musical instruments are not held in common with the majority cultures, will likely inevitably find two choices. These are to accept the musical culture and general values of the larger culture, or to increasingly resist and add cultural artifacts to set apart the minority culture.

 

The insistence on wearing of single-culture clothing is an example that sets apart a culture both for its members and among the larger culture.

 

That has not, in the past, been seen as a problem when done by pacifistic or non-evangelical cultures. In Islamic nations the past century, and in our own "Eurasian" cultures, we have seen it become a problem.

 

Those who play guitar and violin, Bach and rock as well as folk styles of their own heritage, are enough "us" that regardless of war, there's a common ground. Those who do not, lack sufficient common ground that even discussion is functionally pointless.

 

Is making a religion "illegal" functional? I rather doubt it. Is making certain clothing illegal? Again, I rather doubt it. Stigmatizing in schools such refusal to join the larger national culture has worked to an extent, but it also brings "us" too many bad memories of how some of our own general cultures have misused that as well.

 

One might also note history of cultures determining that they have been looked down by the world after having had what they perceived as a history of cultural strength and glory. That in itself is a significant concern. Our fellows here whose history includes domination by Islamic governance may be considering that more than the rest of us.

 

Also, for what it's worth, I note that over the past decades both the Roland and Cid stories have fallen into disuse both in western European litarary education and tales for common culture.

 

"We" are in for an interesting ride, brothers and sisters of the guitar. An interesting ride.

 

m

[STEVIL]

However, it's now being reported, that a 48-year old Mother, intervened,

to try to keep the attackers "calm" and from doing any further violence.

 

So, when good men, did nothing...looks like a woman DID!

 

 

CB

 

I think the men were threatened with a gun if they went near, only women were allowed in - and very brave they were too, one of them even asked gently to one of these psychos to hand her what he had in his hand (A machete and a knife).

[charlie brown]

I think the men were threatened with a gun if they went near, only women were allowed in - and very brave they were too, one of them even asked gently to one of these psychos to hand her what he had in his hand (A machete and a knife).

 

Yeah, I wasn't (really) impuning the men, at all...I'm just surprised, they allow a women to get

that close. Glad it worked! And, yeah...she was very brave!

 

CB

[STEVIL]

Yeah, I wasn't (really) impuning the men, at all...I'm just surprised, they allow a women to get

that close. Glad it worked! And, yeah...she was very brave!

 

CB

 

Oh, sure CB I realised what you meant. I was just thinking too how brave these ladies had been, without any thought at all for their own safety, they more or less stopped the situation going any further.

[brundaddy]

I'll return to the comment about guitar-playing cultures.

 

Note that nobody in the hate march shown in one of these videos was playing guitar and singing "protest songs." Instead it was a shouting march stating more or less that if you're not Muslim, or if you do anything unwanted "to" a Muslim, regardless of his or her crime, you are literally going to Hell. The inference too, is that such descent to a painful afterlife should be assisted by Muslims against the unbelievers.

 

The past cupla centuries in "European" cultures has been toward increasing acceptance of a wide variety of religious beliefs and acceptance of persons holding those beliefs in public office, etc. For the most part, that has not been a problem. Most of "us" look at targeted violence, personal or governmental, of persons not of mainstream religious (or even anti-religious) views as being nasty and a crime against humanity.

 

The more "successful" Asian cultures, the Chinese, Japanese and Koreans, have tended to reflect somewhat similar perspectives in that same time period. Note that they increasingly play guitar.

 

To me, in a sense, "guitar playing" is the old "canary in the coal mine" that indicates early whether there is a dangerous situation in the miners' atmosphere. For "us," guitar playing can indicate whether a culture can manage to adapt to a sufficient degree of international culture for the rest of us to work with.

 

Guitar is a "multicultural" instrument as is the violin. Yet the cultures that use these musical instruments and the kind of music reflecting cultural commonalities, can long-term function together.

 

Cultures where the music and musical instruments are not held in common with the majority cultures, will likely inevitably find two choices. These are to accept the musical culture and general values of the larger culture, or to increasingly resist and add cultural artifacts to set apart the minority culture.

 

The insistence on wearing of single-culture clothing is an example that sets apart a culture both for its members and among the larger culture.

 

That has not, in the past, been seen as a problem when done by pacifistic or non-evangelical cultures. In Islamic nations the past century, and in our own "Eurasian" cultures, we have seen it become a problem.

 

Those who play guitar and violin, Bach and rock as well as folk styles of their own heritage, are enough "us" that regardless of war, there's a common ground. Those who do not, lack sufficient common ground that even discussion is functionally pointless.

 

Is making a religion "illegal" functional? I rather doubt it. Is making certain clothing illegal? Again, I rather doubt it. Stigmatizing in schools such refusal to join the larger national culture has worked to an extent, but it also brings "us" too many bad memories of how some of our own general cultures have misused that as well.

 

One might also note history of cultures determining that they have been looked down by the world after having had what they perceived as a history of cultural strength and glory. That in itself is a significant concern. Our fellows here whose history includes domination by Islamic governance may be considering that more than the rest of us.

 

Also, for what it's worth, I note that over the past decades both the Roland and Cid stories have fallen into disuse both in western European litarary education and tales for common culture.

 

"We" are in for an interesting ride, brothers and sisters of the guitar. An interesting ride.

 

m

 

Imperialism's chickens are coming home to roost.

[STEVIL]

Imperialism's chickens are coming home to roost.

 

Sadly it would appear so... :(

[WRS]

It may be the new trend in terror attacks, small loosely organized groups connected by twitter or the Internet.But my friends in Britain can rest easy knowing that they are safe from gun crime........being slashed is so much more PC.

 

I agree 100%.I do offer prayers for this man and his family.

[milod]

In a sense I'd agree with the "imperialism," but that's far too much a charged term that doesn't necessarily properly express the circumstances.

 

I think a better perspective is threefold:

 

First, "we" did a poor job of preparing folks in undeveloped nations for participation in the larger world community either as individuals or as the "nations" we proclaimed.

 

Second, "they" failed to recognize, or resisted, as a culture how to function as a partner in the world and instead of determining to excel, individuals played their games of personal and tribal power rather than national power.

 

Third, the nations and cultures eventually successful determined that to sit at the international table, they had to make adjustments and recognize certain realities. Japan at the Meiji period was not a terribly comfortable place, but if nothing else, the battle of Tsushima absolutely proved that the Japanese had within a half century turned from a feudal backwater into a major world power. That wasn't so much because they had better battleships, but rather that they had become adept at both technology and cultural competition. Yes, overreliance of certain cultural factors led to nasty consequences, but consequences they not only survived, but overcame.

 

Clausewitz left Prussia for Russia because he opposed the king's opposition to arming the people against Napoleon. That had been on grounds that it would encourage a tradition of armed opposition to an established authority that would cause long-term difficulty after Napoleon.

 

It appears to me that Clausewitz' concept of an underground citizen skirmishing militia did more or less during the WWII period what the king had feared.

 

In the Middle East, the Young Turks created a nation that was, if not as successful as Japan in technology, at least able to wage war in the style of Europeans.

 

But the other Islamic nations, it seems, merely lived under puppet governments that actually did probably increase living standards but a local tradition of governance that was not really interested in a place at the international table - regardless of the appearance of that after WWII with such as Iran's Shah and Egypt's Nasser. Both were instrumental in throttling fundamentalist Islam but without offering something to replace a desire to return to the days of Islam overrunning a large part of the world by war and, as likely is happening today, more subtle modes.

 

Imperialism? I don't think that affected Islam so much as perhaps bringing feelings that jihad against the infidels, one way or another, would be ongoing.

 

And so it remains.

 

m