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Inside The Grave

White 2013 SG Standard (Turning Red ?)

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Hello,

 

I just bought a couple of 2013 SG Standards (2 weeks ago), one in Ebony color and the other one in White color. Today after playing the White SG I saw one portion on the guitar "down part" was turning a bit red. I took a picture of it, hope you can see it. I have the Vintage Restoration Kit and the Luthier's Choice pack, I've used both Hi Gloss Polish liquids and rubbed for some 3-4 mins and it's still there.

 

What would you suggest ?, I do not sweat that much to think this might be happening due to it. I have other 2 Flying Vs in Classic White color for more tan 2 years and I've never seen anything like this happening to any of them.

 

post-48138-038316700 1369805948_thumb.jpg

 

Any help or info would be really helpful, It's still under warranty but I really like the guitar so I don't know what do.

 

Thanks

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retrorod :

 

When I got it (2 weeks back) it was in good shape and all white. Since I've been playing it almost everyday since I got it I cleaned it up with the Luthier's Choice Kit from Gibson 2 days ago and all of a sudden yesterday night I opened the case and saw it was a bit "redish" in some areas. I've used it with other white guitars and this have never happened to me before. I'll call the store today and check the warranty.

 

cjsinla :

 

Hope not, that would be very very strange and dumb if they actually did that.

 

Question : How sensitive is the nitrocellulose to the color of the cloth you use to clean the guitar?, I'm wearing a white microfiber cloth. Could that be affecting the lacquer ?. It's the same type and model of cloth I use to clean my car.

 

Best Regards

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Ok, more info :

 

Yesterday I asked a couple of guys from Stewmac, 1 guy from Gibson and 1 Luthier about this issue, they all came to a similar conclusion stating this problem might have been caused ever since the guitar was finished at the plant, but I didn't notice it until now because of the light conditions (the redish/pink spot can only be seen under yellow light).

 

So they all also recommended to give a try with Naptha just rubbing slowly with some cotton for 1-2 minutes, they claimed this won't hurt the Nitro Lacquer or else, it'll only attack the surface of the lacquer (the clear lacquer) so I did that yesterday night, after a few minutes I saw the red color was 90% gone, so I stopped there and just apply once again a thin portion of Gibson's Hi-Gloss Polish.

 

Based on what cjsinla posted I was curious so I removed the pickups, pickguard and the backplate trying to see if there was some red color hiding, but no luck, everything seems right.

 

However..., I discovered something else. A small Red/Brown mass at the bottom of the neck, right in the neck/body joint (see picture). So I'm guessing the problem might be something with the very end process, maybe it was placed to dry near a red guitar or there was some slight residues from a red guitar in the same table where the setup was made, I don't know something like that.

 

So what do you guys think ?

post-48138-023333000 1369926774_thumb.jpg

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I'm thinking that I would be pissed off, having a pink guitar....bought new, that is supposed to be white! Thats what I think....not sure about the rest of this' bunch of bananas' [scared] .

 

What good does knowing what the reason is if you are not going to act or take advice on it? Are you waiting for "what you want to hear"?

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Ok, more info :

 

Yesterday I asked a couple of guys from Stewmac, 1 guy from Gibson and 1 Luthier about this issue, they all came to a similar conclusion stating this problem might have been caused ever since the guitar was finished at the plant, but I didn't notice it until now because of the light conditions (the redish/pink spot can only be seen under yellow light).

 

So they all also recommended to give a try with Naptha just rubbing slowly with some cotton for 1-2 minutes, they claimed this won't hurt the Nitro Lacquer or else, it'll only attack the surface of the lacquer (the clear lacquer) so I did that yesterday night, after a few minutes I saw the red color was 90% gone, so I stopped there and just apply once again a thin portion of Gibson's Hi-Gloss Polish.

 

Based on what cjsinla posted I was curious so I removed the pickups, pickguard and the backplate trying to see if there was some red color hiding, but no luck, everything seems right.

 

However..., I discovered something else. A small Red/Brown mass at the bottom of the neck, right in the neck/body joint (see picture). So I'm guessing the problem might be something with the very end process, maybe it was placed to dry near a red guitar or there was some slight residues from a red guitar in the same table where the setup was made, I don't know something like that.

 

So what do you guys think ?

 

Finish problems are not (usually) covered, by warranty! So, if you or your Luthier friend,

can't get this resolved, with Naptha, and polish...you may be stuck with it, that way. Unless

you could prove, otherwise...that it was indeed a factory fault, in the finishing.

 

White guitars are often frought with coloring problems, from fabrics dyes (shirts, or even

case interior colors), to just the yellowing, from aging...accelerated, or not. "Pink" is

ODD, but if you're having some success in removing it, with the Naptha...just keep at it,

carefully, a bit more.

 

As to the "grunge" on the end of your fingerboard binding. Does it scrape off, easily? Has it

eaten into the binding, itself, or does it appear like "mold?" If it's damaged the binding, that

should be covered, by the warranty. If it's just a matter of scraping or wiping it off...You can

probably handle that, well enough, on your own. It would beat having to send it back, waiting for

weeks, to get it back...and even risking damage, in shipping to and from. But, 'tis up to you,

as they say.

 

Cheers, and good luck!

 

CB

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You're all right about this. I just followed my guts (and the advice) and I'll give it back to the store today under warranty, I've already spoke to the manager over the phone and he's ok with it and knows the whole picture.

 

Now..., the next thing is..., the store (and the other stores across the country) doesn't have another Gibson SG Standard 2013 in any color, and the wait for a new one is almost 4-5 months. They have other models such as Firebirds, Les Paul (Studio, Standard) and other brands (PRS, G&L,etc) what would you do ?

 

Best Regards

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The biding in places on my ES165 is turning pink.

Couldnt understand then someone asked me what colour the lining in my case was... ahhh... :)

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SamBooka,

 

Now that you mention it I was thinking (fearing) the same, but then I noted that the case was clean, so the problem was not coming from the case, it was something else with the Nitro. I went to the store on Monday and gave it back, they gave me a note of credit for the total, and while I was there checking the guitar with the tech guy we saw some more red "gunk" in the bottom part of the frets, a very small ammount but enough to make us think this was definitly something wrong straight from the fabric.

 

Now my question is : Everytime we buy a Gibson, we all get the checklist signed by the person in charge of checking the guitar before it hit the streets. How come something like this can be skipped during an examination ?, the guys checking the guitars must be well trained and know the deal, so it doesn't make lot of sense to me that someone could have skip this kind of details.

 

Best Regards

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The red gunk you are referring to looks a lot like a red final polishing compound (rotten stone). If the factory left this much of the compound in various places, they may well have not gotten it all from the fine pores of the lacquer finish. Then all it would take for it to become visible is your arm being sweaty to bring it out of the finish and in to view.

If that is the case, then that is a manufacturing error. In my mind, that should be covered under warranty. [thumbup]

 

Bob

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I had the same experience with a 93 Melody Maker in Alpine white. Long story short, Gibson refinished it under warrantee but they had to change the color to Farrie red, because it would'nt stop turning pink after their first attempt at refinishing it in white. I've alway's regretted parting with this guitar because it played so well and had tone that went to the moon. Anyway, Gibson made right on this guitar, which is more than I can say about my new 68 Reissue V in classic white. I've had the guitar since Nov of 2012, and it's been in the case most of the time. I recently noticed a very light stain in the top fin coming through the finish. It's so faint that it's almost unnoticeable and its a very light yellow collor. When I called Gibson, I got the usual run around about how the finish is not covered under warrantee and all that rot from the guy on the other end. Anyway, I really don't want to send it back because I had a bad experience with a Les Paul flame top I sent back for repair some years ago. They actually rubbed through the finish after refinishing the neck and just left it that way. Ultimately, I ended up doing the repair myself after they screwed it up and charged me for it. In closing, I love Gibson Guitars, but I hate the company and the things they do to their guitars in the way of their crappy looking faded finishes, and even worse looking two tone open face pick ups, which destroy the look of such eligant guitars as Gibsons. In reguards to my new Flying V, I'm going to keep an eye on the light stain and if it does'nt get any worse, I'm not going to worry about it. Honestly, I dread having to send any guitar back to Gibson under warrantee or any other reason.

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retrorod :

 

When I got it (2 weeks back) it was in good shape and all white. Since I've been playing it almost everyday since I got it I cleaned it up with the Luthier's Choice Kit from Gibson 2 days ago and all of a sudden yesterday night I opened the case and saw it was a bit "redish" in some areas. I've used it with other white guitars and this have never happened to me before. I'll call the store today and check the warranty.

 

cjsinla :

 

Hope not, that would be very very strange and dumb if they actually did that.

 

Question : How sensitive is the nitrocellulose to the color of the cloth you use to clean the guitar?, I'm wearing a white microfiber cloth. Could that be affecting the lacquer ?. It's the same type and model of cloth I use to clean my car.

 

Best Regards

That pink stain is not coming from the cloth or the case lining or anything out side the finish, it's a flaw under or in the finish itself. Actually, it's a chemical reaction, probably to your skin which is what happened to my Melody Maker I sent back under warrantee some years ago. The lining in my gig bag was grey, but the guitar turned bright pink everywhere my hands or arms made contact with the guitar. It really surprises me to see Gibson has not addressed this problem after all these years with the white nitro finishes, and has the nerve to claim no warrantee on a problem that they are fully aware of.

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Did it just do this since you have recieved it ? Mighty strange! I would return it if its under warranty.

Gibson will claim no warrantee on the finish. Real nice people to do buiness with!

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My white 85 Explorer has lived it's entire life in it's original Gibson case with RED lining and it has only ever turned more "yellowed". No traces of red or pink.

 

Definitely strange that it is taking on a pink tone.

 

NHTom

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After looking at the picture of the neck, I have a strange thought..............

 

I work in the Boat industry. We have in recent years had a run of upholstery in boats that has ended up with pink stains on it. The factories have done much research and found it to be related to a fungus...........actually fungus "waste"....lol.

 

After looking at the stuff on the neck, I wonder if this guitar got wet at some point in it's life???

 

Just a thought, but it is the same shade of pink we have seen on the boat seats.

 

NHTom

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The red color is either IN the finish or ON the finish. If ON the finish it could be polishing compound or whatever. Naptha (lighter fluid) is the ticket. It will not hurt a nitrocellulose lacquer finish. It is standard in most luthier shops to wipe down guitars with naptha before cleaning and polishing them. In your case, I would have taken everything off the guitar including electronics then wiped it down inside and out with naptha using clean cotton rags. I'd go over it until no red showed on the rag.

 

If the color is IN the finish it is either (1) the mahogany bleeding through or (2) a cherry red guitar refinished in white because (a) the red finish didn't meet inspection and/or (b ) Gibson's white quota wasn't being met. In either case, the problem is the wood (or the previous finish) wasn't properly sealed. Cherry Red Gibson guitars are typically mahogany. The mahogany is filled with a red pore filler then either dyed red or sprayed with a red dyed lacquer. A sealer must be used after the pore filler and dye and before spraying clear coats.

 

If this guitar was finished red then white either they thought the finish had cured enough to seal in the color coat or they used a sealer over the red prior to spraying white. The safe choice would have been to use a white primer/sealer with shellac. It may be old school, but shellac sticks to everything and seals just about everything. Do you have wood with knots bleeding through the paint? Paint with shellac first. This is not an uncommon solution - Kilz and Zinnser both make such a product.

 

Gibson may not warranty finishes but they definitely warranty manufacturing defects and, if the color is IN the finish, it is a manufacturing defect. Depending on how long you've had the guitar, the retailer should give you a refund if an identical guitar is not available.

 

This info may be too late to help you but perhaps it helps educate others on the process.

 

PS Does anyone know how to keep a lower-case b in parentheses from being autocorrected into a emoticon? Notice how in paragraph 2 I typed (b ) with an additional space? I kept getting (B).

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