1938 Advanced Jumbo: Brazilian or Indian?

[glennlowe]

Was the 1938 Gibson Advanced Jumbo made from Brazilian Rosewood or Indian Rosewood?

 

My dad bought it in 1953, and the sales rep back then told him Brazilian.

 

BUT, the reissue is Indian. Every person I ask has a different answer. What do you think?

 

Thanks! Glenn

 

[merseybeat1963]

Was the 1938 Gibson Advanced Jumbo made from Brazilian Rosewood or Indian Rosewood?

 

My dad bought it in 1953, and the sales rep back then told him Brazilian.

 

BUT, the reissue is Indian. Every person I ask has a different answer. What do you think?

 

Thanks! Glenn

 

 

Wow nice.

Im no expert..Id say from this one picture color looks like Brazilian.

Also Id bet the sales guy was telling the truth in 1953. Everyone was using Brazilian back then, it was no big deal.

[tpbiii]

Hi Glenn,

 

I am convinced to my own satisfaction that it is EIRW.

 

For many years, this was a hotly questioned issue. When Gary Burnette said many years ago that his prototype AJ (probably 1935) was Brazilian, it was unquestioned for many years. It is also clear that up until about 1932, Gibson was using BRW for backs and sides on stuff like L-2s an NL. But the later stuff (the AJ was introduced into the line in fall of 1936) did not look like BRW. For a long time the conjecture is it might be Amazon RW -- the stuff has a characteristic look to it and it is pretty easy to recognize. Then, about five years ago, the renowned German Luthier Willi Henkes harvested a bit of the "mystery RW." and had it tested. On the first test, they asked if it was Amazon RW and were told "no." On the second test, they asked what it was, and the result came back EIRW.

 

I talked to Gary Burnette about why he thought it was BRW. His answer was that the Gibson advertising said it was. Well, if you look at the Gibson ads from the period, they have a recurring statement that is a list of materials ant it includes the line "rosewood from Brazil." It says nothing about what the RW was used for and it did not change from 1930 to 1937 -- ie, it appears to be boiler plate. Technically it is not wrong -- BWR is in use, but not for backs and side. We have three examples these golden era Gibson RW guitars. 1935 RSRG and 1936 AJ We also a '43 SJ of the same wood.

 

Let's pick, -Tom

[modoc_333]

I think it's suspect that the dealer told him that when he bought it. People didn't ask. Do you ask where alder comes from when buying a strat? of course not. Brazilian is what was generally used. People just took what they got. The same way most people do with mahogany today. It wasn't until the laws came in to limit the stuff that people started to take notice. They put braz on the cheapest guitar fretboards. it just wasn't something the salesman would have mentioned. I believe that came about later in the retelling of the story.

 

Even if that's not true, a salesman's word doesn't make it true. I think we can all give an example or a million of a salesman making a claim that was either a lie or simply misinformed.

[merseybeat1963]

Hi Glenn,

 

I am convinced to my own satisfaction that it is EIRW.

 

For many years, this was a hotly questioned issue. When Gary Burnette said many years ago that his prototype AJ (probably 1935) was Brazilian, it was unquestioned for many years. It is also clear that up until about 1932, Gibson was using BRW for backs and sides on stuff like L-2s an NL. But the later stuff (the AJ was introduced into the line in fall of 1936) did not look like BRW. For a long time the conjecture is it might be Amazon RW -- the stuff has a characteristic look to it and it is pretty easy to recognize. Then, about five years ago, the renowned German Luthier Willi Henkes harvested a bit of the "mystery RW." and had it tested. On the first test, they asked if it was Amazon RW and were told "no." On the second test, they asked what it was, and the result came back EIRW.

 

I talked to Gary Burnette about why he thought it was BRW. His answer was that the Gibson advertising said it was. Well, if you look at the Gibson ads from the period, they have a recurring statement that is a list of materials ant it includes the line "rosewood from Brazil." It says nothing about what the RW was used for and it did not change from 1930 to 1937 -- ie, it appears to be boiler plate. Technically it is not wrong -- BWR is in use, but not for backs and side. We have three examples these golden era Gibson RW guitars. 1935 RSRG and 1936 AJ We also a '43 SJ of the same wood.

 

Let's pick, -Tom

 

The two figured ones are not Brazilian Rosewood?

The bottom right one esspecially looks it..no?

[onewilyfool]

Here is a BRW Gibson AJ I played at Gryphon's.....meh.......nothing spectacular.....$5300??? I won't pay it. I've seen them on Craigslist for $4k...but still too much for an average sound. Most luthiers I talk to say there is no difference "SOUND" wise between BRW and EIRW......

[tpbiii]

The two figured ones are not Brazilian Rosewood?

The bottom right one esspecially looks it..no?

 

I think what you are seeing is the fact that the logs were not perfectly quarter sawed -- in fact the RG was almost slab cut. Martin and Gibson both used wood like that occasionally in the 30s.

 

I don't claim to unerringly identify wood types. But close inspection shows them to be very similar -- just as the close examination of Martins from the period does the same. So whatever they are, they are almost certainly the same. The fact that I believe they are EIRW are the results of other peoples research.

 

Best,

 

-Tom

[merseybeat1963]

Whatever that wood is on upper left guitar is super.

 

The lower right one seems to be identical species to Brazilian Lowden I got..

Someone must know by the smell..?...if any is still lingering in such old guitars.

Thanks

[glennlowe]

Hi Glenn,

 

I am convinced to my own satisfaction that it is EIRW.

 

For many years, this was a hotly questioned issue. When Gary Burnette said many years ago that his prototype AJ (probably 1935) was Brazilian, it was unquestioned for many years. It is also clear that up until about 1932, Gibson was using BRW for backs and sides on stuff like L-2s an NL. But the later stuff (the AJ was introduced into the line in fall of 1936) did not look like BRW. For a long time the conjecture is it might be Amazon RW -- the stuff has a characteristic look to it and it is pretty easy to recognize. Then, about five years ago, the renowned German Luthier Willi Henkes harvested a bit of the "mystery RW." and had it tested. On the first test, they asked if it was Amazon RW and were told "no." On the second test, they asked what it was, and the result came back EIRW.

 

I talked to Gary Burnette about why he thought it was BRW. His answer was that the Gibson advertising said it was. Well, if you look at the Gibson ads from the period, they have a recurring statement that is a list of materials ant it includes the line "rosewood from Brazil." It says nothing about what the RW was used for and it did not change from 1930 to 1937 -- ie, it appears to be boiler plate. Technically it is not wrong -- BWR is in use, but not for backs and side. We have three examples these golden era Gibson RW guitars. 1935 RSRG and 1936 AJ We also a '43 SJ of the same wood.

 

Let's pick, -Tom

 

 

That's great, I really appreciated the explanation Tom. Wow, where did you get all this info, your head is packed ... Glenn

[tpbiii]

Whatever that wood is on upper left guitar is super.

 

The lower right one seems to be identical species to Brazilian Lowden I got..

Someone must know by the smell..?...if any is still lingering in such old guitars.

Thanks

 

Yea, a little -- but it certainly attenuates with time. When they are 70-80 years old, they are much more likely to smell like the environment where they have existed -- particularly if that included smoke.

 

It is certainly there on newer instruments. We have a 18 year old EIRW Martin (HD-28SO) that my wife can't play because the rosewood smell is so great it makes her sneeze.

 

Here are some 30s BRW Martins -- you can see what BRW figure looks like on a quarter sawed back.

 

1934

1935

1938

 

1948

 

By the late 60s, the BRW was running out and you see more dramatic variations.

1969

 

Let's pick,

 

-Tom

[merseybeat1963]

Great pictures.The 1934 is a beauty..that D35 terrible : )

[ML1B1D]

Great pictures.The 1934 is a beauty..that D35 terrible : )

 

I think the D-35 looks great!