BaZie Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Hi all, Could you please help me decide to buy or not to buy Epi ES-339. I think I'd like to have one, but I have few questions: 1. I already have LP Studio and Explorer Pro. Assuming ES-339 has the same pickups as Explorer, will there be any noticeable difference in tone? Or will there be a difference only if the pickups are different (e.g., Alnico Classic Pro vs. Probuckers)? 2. How does a semi-hollow guitar sound unplugged? Similar to accoustic? I'd like to practice unplugged sometimes but the accoustic I have is not very convenient to play e.g. solos. 3. In the future, I could change the pickups to Seymour Duncan P-Rails, which can act as humbucker or single coil or P90. Does it make sense? 4. As a cheaper modification, I think of expanding switching capabilities so each pickup could work as single coil or series or parallel. Thanks in advance for any suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dporto Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Hi all, Could you please help me decide to buy or not to buy Epi ES-339. I think I'd like to have one, but I have few questions: 1. I already have LP Studio and Explorer Pro. Assuming ES-339 has the same pickups as Explorer, will there be any noticeable difference in tone? Or will there be a difference only if the pickups are different (e.g., Alnico Classic Pro vs. Probuckers)? 2. How does a semi-hollow guitar sound unplugged? Similar to accoustic? I'd like to practice unplugged sometimes but the accoustic I have is not very convenient to play e.g. solos. 3. In the future, I could change the pickups to Seymour Duncan P-Rails, which can act as humbucker or single coil or P90. Does it make sense? 4. As a cheaper modification, I think of expanding switching capabilities so each pickup could work as single coil or series or parallel. Thanks in advance for any suggestion. Try to find one (or a few would be better) and play it/them for awhile. If you like it buy it, if not, take a pass... 1. Plugged in there will be a noticeable difference in tone - how noticeable is subjective at best. 2. If playing unplugged there will be a huge difference from your explorer - it will NOT however sound like an acoustic guitar. Closer than the explorer but not the same. This being said, I ALWAYS play my electric guitars unplugged - I rarely plug in unless I'm playing with/in a band situation. I prefer hollow or semi-hollows to solid bodies when unplugged...no surprise there eh? 3. Only if you decide you don't like the Alnico Pro's... 4. Have at it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I'd say it depends on how it feels, more than what you might perceive as "tone" compared to your other guitars. "Feel" also will make a difference in your playing geometry which will make a difference in tone. I personally couldn't figure rebuilding a guitar, but then again I'm old, and of the "if it ain't broke" school. If the guitar speaks to you in terms of playing ease and comfort, it's worth getting. If it doesn't, it ain't. A good picker will make any decent electric get a huge range of sound just through technique. A semi will give more sound played acoustic, but as noted above, not as if it were an acoustic. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeko Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 I'm just curious how this is different from a Dot? They look similar to me. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dporto Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 I'm just curious how this is different from a Dot? They look similar to me. Thanks Smaller body size in the 339, push/pull coil splits on the humbuckers...The necks feel similar, the range of sounds is similar except the 339 has the single coil sounds as well...I've got and play both... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeko Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Smaller body size in the 339, push/pull coil splits on the humbuckers...The necks feel similar, the range of sounds is similar except the 339 has the single coil sounds as well...I've got and play both... Cool beans and thanks. I've never had the pleasure of trying either. What exactly is "push/pull coil splits"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victek Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 2. How does a semi-hollow guitar sound unplugged? Similar to acoustic? I'd like to practice unplugged sometimes but the acoustic I have is not very convenient to play e.g. solos. I have the Dot and it has just enough volume to be enjoyable when playing unplugged. It's a big difference compared to a solid body and it enables me to practice my "leads". I've played the 339 in the store and it's a nice guitar. It's very similar to the Dot, but with a smaller body. I would play it and compare it to the Dot (and anything else that looks interesting) before deciding. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victek Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Cool beans and thanks. I've never had the pleasure of trying either. What exactly is "push/pull coil splits"? The humbucker windings are "tapped" somewhere in the middle so that it effectively becomes a single coil. This is wired to either the tone or volume control which you pull up on to switch the mode. This feature is being offered on a lot of guitars now, such as the Epi Les Paul, ES335 Pro, & PRS SE CU24. Personally I don't think it sounds like an actual single coil, like those in a Stratocaster for instance. I wouldn't make it a factor when looking for a new guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dporto Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 "Personally I don't think it sounds like an actual single coil, like those in a Stratocaster for instance. Personally I wouldn't make it a factor when looking for a new guitar." The push/pull coil taps/splits are on the volume controls and they effectively turn a humbucker (2 coils) in to a single coil pick-up...Yes that's right a "single coil" pick-up! Is it a Strat pickup? No...Is it a Tele pickup? No...Is it a P90? I think you get the drift by now...It's simply 1/2 of the humbucker - which is exactly what it sounds like... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victek Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 The push/pull coil taps/splits are on the volume controls and they effectively turn a humbucker (2 coils) in to a single coil pick-up...Yes that's right a "single coil" pick-up! Is it a Strat pickup? No...Is it a Tele pickup? No...Is it a P90? I think you get the drift by now...It's simply 1/2 of the humbucker - which is exactly what it sounds like... Yes, I get what it is. My point is I don't feel it's a worthwhile feature because it doesn't effectively make the guitar sound like a Strat, Tele, or anything similar. To my ear it just sounds weak. It's not clear why coil splitting has become the feature "du jour" on many guitars fitted with humbuckers, but if anyone thinks it means that they're not going to need a Strat type guitar to get a classic single coil sound they are going to be disappointed IMHO. Now there's something called "spin-a-split" that sounds like it has real potential. Bluesman335 has wired his guitar(s) for it and maybe he will chime in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 The humbucker windings are "tapped" somewhere in the middle so that it effectively becomes a single coil. This is wired to either the tone or volume control which you pull up on to switch the mode. This feature is being offered on a lot of guitars now, such as the Epi Les Paul, ES335 Pro, & PRS SE CU24. Personally I don't think it sounds like an actual single coil, like those in a Stratocaster for instance. I wouldn't make it a factor when looking for a new guitar. good answer/post ! to me, a split bridge p'up sounds really close to a Tele as opposed to Strat. edit: my only push/pull experience was w/a Gibby p'up....YMMV of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeko Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Thanks guys. Obviously I don't get out much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dporto Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 "Yes, I get what it is" Really? In case you forgot, this is what you said earlier... "Personally I don't think it sounds like an actual single coil" I pointed out that it sounds like exactly what it is...A single coil (or 1/2 of a two coil humbucker). Once again you make the point that it doesn't sound like a Strat... "Strat type guitar to get a classic single coil sound" So a "classic single coil sound" is a "Strat" sound? Mighty opinionated...and you know what they say about opinions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemans335 Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Fender single coils have 6 small rod magnets (one under each string) and a coil wrapped around them, which gives them a distinctive sound. A humbucker in single-coil mode has one large bar magnet under it, set off to one side; it's also a true single coil, but the magnet arrangement is different from Fender's. P-90's are also a true single coil, but have a larger coil with two bar magnets under it. BTW, P-90's were on production guitars before Fender came out with theirs, so P-90's set the standard, and Fender's are a low-cost copy. Spin-a-split creates unbalanced coils and therefore is a combination of humbucker and single coil. It won't sound like a Fender PU, but it can give great 1950's PAF tones. Yu get all the inbetween sounds, that are stronger than single coil (coil cut), but not as strong as a full humbucker. If you want a Strat/Tele sound, you specifically need Fender-type PU's, which basically means you need a Strat or Tele. There's no such thing as a 'do everything' guitar. Too much ground to cover. Besides PU's, there's differences in the two camps in woods, overall design, scale length, neck attachment, etc. Fenders are made to sound bright and twangy, Gibsons/Epiphones are made to be warm and full. You're not going to make an LP or 335 sound like a Strat or Tele, and vice versa. Personally, I don't want my guitars to have the Fender sound, too thin and piercing for the styles I play; add distortion and they often sound like 'bees in a can.' As cheap as good quality guitars are today (and even cheaper used) just about everyone can afford to get a few good imports, and between them get the tones they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victek Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 "Yes, I get what it is" Really? In case you forgot, this is what you said earlier... "Personally I don't think it sounds like an actual single coil" I pointed out that it sounds like exactly what it is...A single coil (or 1/2 of a two coil humbucker). Once again you make the point that it doesn't sound like a Strat... "Strat type guitar to get a classic single coil sound" So a "classic single coil sound" is a "Strat" sound? Mighty opinionated...and you know what they say about opinions Well, I think maybe this is a language problem so I'll try to be more clear. Yes, I understand that a half a humbucker is in fact a single coil, but does doing this add value to the guitar? Based on my dual humbucker PRS which has the coil split and demos I've listened to I don't feel the sound that results from splitting a humbucker is interesting/unique - it just sounds weak. I expect though that not all coil tapped humbuckers sound the same so I'll keep an open mind. You're correct that it's just my perception that the pickups in Strats and Teles represent the classic single coil sound. I don't know how common that point of view is, but again what I feel is important is Strats and Teles have a very unique sound based on their pickups (and yes other things too). Clearly split humbuckers do not replicate that sound and Bluesman335 explains why. If people have that expectation they will be disappointed, but maybe I'm the only one who did? Fortunately coil splitting did not factor into my decision to buy the PRS - I love it for other reasons. There's a lot of hype in the music biz. I think it's a good idea to look closely and be a little skeptical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midiman56 Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 For what it's worth, I think I get where Victek is coming from on this one ... I own several guitars with the coil splitting option. I didn't buy them BECAUSE of this feature ... they just came that way, and I very rarely, if ever use the "single coil" voice on any of them. They just don't do it for me sonically. As Bluesman so perfectly illustrated in his post, traditional single coil tonalities are a combination of several production methods ... each having a distinct and "different" voice. Split hummers have one too ... just not one that I find particularly pleasant. Nope ... no such thing as a "do it all" guitar ... 'cept maybe for a modeling guitar like the Variaxe ... but that's ANOTHER can of worms! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaZie Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 Thanks for your answers regarding ES-339. From my point of view, it's nice and useful when a guitar has more pickup switching capabilities, especially when it doesn't increase the price significantly. Some guitar players can't afford more guitars, or just don't have enough place to store them all, but still want to look for their tone achieved "from the wood", not from modelling multieffects. Obviously, there is no single versatile guitar, at least for variety of woods, neck mounting options, etc., but adding more switching capabilities allows reduce number of guitars to few while still having variety of available sounds. And sometimes it's enough to have a guitar "sounding like" but not being exactly (from technical point of view) compatible with some guitar type. It maybe also a good starting point to find your own tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dporto Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 "For what it's worth, I think I get where Victek is coming from on this one ..." Oh, so do I...Totally. It was more the way he framed his statement that rubbed me wrong - to say a single coil pick-up must sound like a Strat to be useful is just silly. I think the biggest drawback to a tapped humbucker is that the single coil output is so much lower than the humbucker (both coils). I think the single coil sound on it's own is certainly useful, but if you try to switch to the Humbucker (or vice versa) within the same song the level jump/drop can be problematic (if you haven't worked it out). If you work with it and set your amp up properly it can actually be useful - think single coil rhythm sound right on the edge of breakup then kick in the humbucker mode for solos(thicken things up and overdrive the amp a bit...)or the other way around for a grinding rhythm sound that cleans up and thins out for a fingerpicked or arppegiated verse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaZie Posted July 17, 2013 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 I think the single coil sound on it's own is certainly useful, but if you try to switch to the Humbucker (or vice versa) within the same song the level jump/drop can be problematic I think this is not always the case. I know, theory says there should be a volume drop, and in many cases it really is, and is audible. But in other cases it helps deal with a poor humbucker. For instance, in my Ibanez I had Powersounds pickups which had problems with higher tones. I could either add treble vith tone control, or switch to single coil mode, which was faster, more convenient and sounded better for me (in fact, I switched to position 2 or 4 so I used half of humbucker and center single coil). As I used it with hi gain amp model and high tones, not only I didn't hear a volume drop, but the resulting sustain was better. I observe similar, but not that annoying, thing with Epi Nighthawk, while LP Studio and Explorer Pro seem free from this disadvantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dporto Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 "I could either add treble vith tone control, or switch to single coil mode, which was faster, more convenient and sounded better for me (in fact, I switched to position 2 or 4 so I used half of humbucker and center single coil)" #1 - I don't doubt that it sounded "better" to you, but that illustrates the problem with subjective terms like "better"... #2 - you don't "add treble" with a tone control...only take away...(unless it's an active circuit but I don't think we're talking about that in this case) #3 - It's strange you didn't get a volume drop when cutting half (one coil) of a humbucker...I'm not saying it isn't the case, but I find it unusual (as I think most would) I'm not sure what the actual difference in output is between humbucker mode and single coil mode (and I'm pretty sure single is more than half of what humbucker is) but I'm pretty sure it's lower in single mode...therefore>volume drop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadedepi Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 The terms "Coil Tapping" and "Coil Splitting" are not the same thing. In fact, they are two different types of pickup modifications. For some reason, coil tapping is being used as meaning the same as coil splitting. Even by manufactures, who should know better. Being able to switch from humbucker (2 coil) to single coil (1 coil) using the same pickup is "Coil Splitting". This is what we are discussing here. Coil tapping or (tapping the coil) of a pickup is a completely different modification. It has nothing to do with switching a humbucker to a single coil pickup. Just FYI, Faded...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victek Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 The terms "Coil Tapping" and "Coil Splitting" are not the same thing. In fact, they are two different types of pickup modifications. For some reason, coil tapping is being used as meaning the same as coil splitting. Even by manufactures, who should know better. Being able to switch from humbucker (2 coil) to single coil (1 coil) using the same pickup is "Coil Splitting". This is what we are discussing here. Coil tapping or (tapping the coil) of a pickup is a completely different modification. It has nothing to do with switching a humbucker to a single coil pickup. Just FYI, Faded...... Please finish the thought and explain what Coil Tapping is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Could you please help me decide to buy or not to buy Epi ES-339. Buy one. Does that help? I think I'd like to have one, but I have few questions:1. I already have LP Studio and Explorer Pro. Assuming ES-339 has the same pickups as Explorer, will there be any noticeable difference in tone? The difference in body styles must make a difference, but it may only be noticeable to a connoisseur. 2. How does a semi-hollow guitar sound unplugged? Not as loud. 3. In the future, I could change the pickups to Seymour Duncan P-Rails, which can act as humbucker or single coil or P90. Does it make sense? Not to me. The Classic Pro's on the 339 sound fine to me. But I'm no connoisseur. Smaller body size in the 339 [compared with the Dot]... I have both too. The body length and width appear to be a couple inches less (I haven't measured), but surface area = l times w, and volume = l times w times depth. In other words, the 339 seems A LOT smaller and lighter than the Dot. I love them both. I'm not real impressed with the split coil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadedepi Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Please finish the thought and explain what Coil Tapping is. Coil Tapping Coil Splitting Faded...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victek Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Coil Tapping Coil Splitting Faded...... Thanks for the links. I don't think I've come across any guitars with tapped single coils. I'll have to keep an ear out :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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