MKJ45 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Hi guys Pleased to be a new member of the forum. I went to a vintage acoustic guitar dealer this week and played numerous old Gibson acoustics from 1941 - 1974. He was a top guy and really passionate and helpful but I am now extremely confused as to which one to go for as I can only afford one, and I left with my head in a spin. I am between: 1974 Hummingbird - £1,499 1969 J45 - one is going at £1,250 (due to being refinished) 1969 J45 - the other at £1,800 1941 Kalamazoo KGN12 - £1,499 1968 Epiphone El Dorado - £1,200 I know it ultimately comes down to taste. The only one that made me shudder was the Kalamazoo - i felt the age and the spirit in the guitar, but it was by no means the 'best' sounding. Do you guys own any vintage acoustics? What are your likes and dislikes? I took some sound clips and may even do a blind test of each guitar and put it on youtube to see if you folks can guess which is which. The guitar I buy will be used primarily for recording voice and guitar. Would love to hear your thoughts. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 1974 Hummingbird - £1,499 1969 J45 - one is going at £1,250 (due to being refinished) 1969 J45 - the other at £1,800 1941 Kalamazoo KGN12 - £1,499 1968 Epiphone El Dorado - £1,200 1974 Hummingbird - £1,499 - Not Gibson's heyday I'm afraid, the NORLIN period is generally regarded as a low point. 70's acoustics seems to be generaly the least favoured out there. 1969 J45 - one is going at £1,250 (due to being refinished) - Probably the later 60's skinny nut, pure personal preference of course, but again, not really the 'holy grail' territory. 1969 J45 - the other at £1,800 - See above. 1941 Kalamazoo KGN12 - £1,499 - Someopne more qualified in Kalamazoo acoustics will chime in.... 1968 Epiphone El Dorado - £1,200 - Always has fans, but again we're not in real 'holy grail' territory. Unless you're dead-set on an older model, I'd suggest you try some Bozeman era samples of J-45's etc... once tried seldom denied, you may find something there that will tick all the boxes (even if it lacks the age you might find alluring). If you're set on vintage, the gold is in the 40's & 50's models typically.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 It really does come down to personal choice. The new J-45, me thinks, will fill the role nicely. I do not own any vintage guitars, the unknowns and the up-keep scare the bejeebers outta me. The '69 J-45s you reference are square shoulder models from a less than illustrious Gibson era, and have a reputation for being hit or miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 I guess I am a bit confused as most of the guitars on your list would never be mistaken for the other so the choice should not be that difficult. I mean nobody is going to mistake a Kalamaoo KGN-14 for a Hummingbird or a Hummingbird for a J-45. So first I would think you have to know what sound and feel you are looking for. Never having played any of the guitars you did so being an armchair quarterback, I would rule out the '74 Hummingbird and '69 J-45s right off the bat based on my experience with guitars of a similar age. Narrow nuts, thin necks, heavier bracing, and generally not the best build quality. I would also rule out the El Dorado which is the Epi version of the Hummingbird because of the ridiculously narrow 1 5/8" nut. Things such as nut widths and neck profiles though are purely personal preference. One man's poison is another man's pleasure. That leaves the Kalamazoo. I have owned a KG-11 and KG-14 and they worked well for me and the type of stuff I play. But the sound of a ladder braced guitar is not to everybody's taste and you also need to know what you are doing when you get into these guitars. So hate to say it but it might be smart to just pass on this lot and bide your time. Making a rush call because you got bitten by the "vintage" bug can not turn out all that well sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainpicker Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Due to all the reasons already mentioned I think I would tuck the 2 grand back in my wallet and continue the search for awhile longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Due to all the reasons already mentioned I think I would tuck the 2 grand back in my wallet and continue the search for awhile longer. Agreed, for 2K cash I think there's much better to be had out there...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKJ45 Posted July 18, 2013 Author Share Posted July 18, 2013 I guess I am a bit confused as most of the guitars on your list would never be mistaken for the other so the choice should not be that difficult. I mean nobody is going to mistake a Kalamaoo KGN-14 for a Hummingbird or a Hummingbird for a J-45. So first I would think you have to know what sound and feel you are looking for. Never having played any of the guitars you did so being an armchair quarterback, I would rule out the '74 Hummingbird and '69 J-45s right off the bat based on my experience with guitars of a similar age. Narrow nuts, thin necks, heavier bracing, and generally not the best build quality. I would also rule out the El Dorado which is the Epi version of the Hummingbird because of the ridiculously narrow 1 5/8" nut. Things such as nut widths and neck profiles though are purely personal preference. One man's poison is another man's pleasure. That leaves the Kalamazoo. I have owned a KG-11 and KG-14 and they worked well for me and the type of stuff I play. But the sound of a ladder braced guitar is not to everybody's taste and you also need to know what you are doing when you get into these guitars. So hate to say it but it might be smart to just pass on this lot and bide your time. Making a rush call because you got bitten by the "vintage" bug can not turn out all that well sometimes. thank you so much for all your replies - very helpful indeed. I must admit the guy spent so long with me going over the guitars and with such enthusiasm and patience that I almost felt I had to part with some money now. (of course no reason to actually do so) One of the 69 J45's certainly did have an extremely thin neck, which felt uncomfortable/ unusual. I certainly didn't feel there was anything remarkable about the J45s or Hummingbird. Surely to part with that sort of money you need to feel particularly taken by a guitar. Having mentioned the golden era being 40s and 50s, I must say the 1941 Kalamazoo (and a 1953 Martin which I wasn't going to mention here) 'spoke' to me the most/ had the most soul. But again, the fact I couldn't decide on a clear winner by the end perhaps suggests I need to bide my time, as you say, and keep looking. I would go for a modern day J45 (As was originally my plan) but I would like my songs to have as distinct/ unique a guitar tone as possible to accompany my vocals, since the recordings will literally be voice and guitar, so am prepared to keep looking for now. Thanks again! Any more thoughts from others, would love to hear. P.S. i should add I am primarily looking for a guitar for recording purposes - so intimacy, character, haunting qualities most important to me. This is why I was considering the small bodies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Welcome to the forum... I see you mention Pounds, which I can't find the symbol on my keyboard???, so we assume you are in the UK. I voted the new J45 from your list, as I have one and it is great. Also a popular choice for singer/guitarists is the Hummingbird, but lately everyone here have been hyper over the new Gibson J35 1199 Pounds - second Gibson Acoustic down this list from Guitar Village, which also have a lot of the guitars you mentioned in your list: http://www.guitar-village.co.uk/products/150/Acoustic-Gibson.aspx If possible, get down there and try them all! And then try them again. Great advice that I don't take...... BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 1974 Hummingbird - £1,499 - Not Gibson's heyday I'm afraid, the NORLIN period is generally regarded as a low point. 70's acoustics seems to be generaly the least favoured out there. 1969 J45 - one is going at £1,250 (due to being refinished) - Probably the later 60's skinny nut, pure personal preference of course, but again, not really the 'holy grail' territory. 1969 J45 - the other at £1,800 - See above. 1941 Kalamazoo KGN12 - £1,499 - Someopne more qualified in Kalamazoo acoustics will chime in.... 1968 Epiphone El Dorado - £1,200 - Always has fans, but again we're not in real 'holy grail' territory. Unless you're dead-set on an older model, I'd suggest you try some Bozeman era samples of J-45's etc... once tried seldom denied, you may find something there that will tick all the boxes (even if it lacks the age you might find alluring). If you're set on vintage, the gold is in the 40's & 50's models typically.... Exactly what he said here. Your vintage options are not exactly high points in the history of Gibsons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKJ45 Posted July 18, 2013 Author Share Posted July 18, 2013 Exactly what he said here. Your vintage options are not exactly high points in the history of Gibsons. I appreciate that. However, I must admit i'm surprised by the support for buying the factory new J45. I thought many would hark back to more vintage models..or perhaps it's just that I didn't list any decent enough vintage models. Perhaps I should created an 'other' or 'none of the above' option on my poll! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versatile Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 There are probably as many points of view regarding vintage acoustics as there are forum members... <_< IMO caution may be the order of the day...new instruments often sound very good indeed and have excellent warranty cover... For some reason moi has never felt like spending large £wads on a Gibson acoustic Personal quiver includes Taylor, Takamine, Yamaha, Guild...some purchased from aforementioned Guitar Village... Enjoy the chase... Check out what your favourite artists play... Purchase accordingly... V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKJ45 Posted July 18, 2013 Author Share Posted July 18, 2013 There are probably as many points of view regarding vintage acoustics as there are forum members... <_< IMO caution may be the order of the day...new instruments often sound very good indeed and have excellent warranty cover... For some reason moi has never felt like spending large £wads on a Gibson acoustic Personal quiver includes Taylor, Takamine, Yamaha, Guild...some purchased from aforementioned Guitar Village... Enjoy the chase... Check out what your favourite artists play... Purchase accordingly... V Thank you, I've checked out Guitar Village - a bit of a journey for me from central London out to Surrey but one Im happy to take in search of 'the one'. However, I've seen they list their J45s at 1.9k! I have a couple of leads on modern (2011) second hand J45s - a standard at £1,200 and a TV at £1,550, so maybe its worth trying making the journey to try them out. I resent paying full price in guitar centres! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Central London... http://www.vintageandrareguitars.com/guitars/Gibson/Gibson-Acoustics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 I have a couple of leads on modern (2011) second hand J45s - a standard at £1,200 and a TV at £1,550, so maybe its worth trying making the journey to try them out. I resent paying full price in guitar centres! Although the price is a bit high by US standards, a recent J-45 TV in very good condition at 1500 would be a clear choice, assuming it's a decent one. The only advantage of buying new is the warranty, but as I understand it, the UK warranty isn't as good as the US one in any case. Hands down, some of the best values in my stable are recent-model Gibsons (and Martins, for that matter) bought slightly used. I simply wouldn't buy new unless there were no other option. I have three 2007-2010 Gibsons, all bought used, and all purchased at 20-40% lower than the typical new selling price for that model. All were in perfect or near-perfect condition when I bought them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKJ45 Posted July 18, 2013 Author Share Posted July 18, 2013 Although the price is a bit high by US standards, a recent J-45 TV in very good condition at 1500 would be a clear choice, assuming it's a decent one. The only advantage of buying new is the warranty, but as I understand it, the UK warranty isn't as good as the US one in any case. Hands down, some of the best values in my stable are recent-model Gibsons (and Martins, for that matter) bought slightly used. I simply wouldn't buy new unless there were no other option. I have three 2007-2010 Gibsons, all bought used, and all purchased at 20-40% lower than the typical new selling price for that model. All were in perfect or near-perfect condition when I bought them. Hey guys, so ive uploaded a 10 min youtube vid of me playing all 6 guitars (not including the epiphone, and including one rogue martin) Have a listen and see what you think! Sorry for the samey playing, but i had to play the same pieces of mine in order to provide a worthwhile reference point. Also, annoyingly the kalamazoo doesnt get a fair trial as I was so used to playing the big bodies when I went back to it, so didn't adjust very well.. All snippets are pieces from my forthcoming album. http://www.Michaelkilbey.com here's the youtube link: http://youtu.be/KmqcsJgqwYQ P.S. Id strongly recommend listening with earphones or headphones as the volume is not great or too revealing straight out of my laptop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 I kinda liked the 41 Kalamazoo, with the 69 J-45 a close second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 The newer J45 I have is hands down the favorite one that my freinds tend to grab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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