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bluefire98

Casino, Riviera P-93, and the WildKat


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All of them use p90's, 1 of them is hollow, 2 of them use bigsby's. The casino features 2 p90's and full hollow construction and is the most expensive, so tell me why the p93 gets 3 pickups, semi hollow construction, and a bigsby for cheaper? The wildkat, being the cheapest of the 3, functionally looks like a p93 with 1 less pickup? Can some one tell me the REAL difference between these guitars? :-k

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You've already stated, the biggest differences. [biggrin]

The Kat, is a small bodied, dual P-90 pick up guitar, with center

block, and Bigsby. It has great tone, but a bit less resonance,

than the Riviera P-93, which is, of course, a larger bodied guitar.

The Casino, is a whole different "animal." Being fully hollow body,

it has the most resonance, and as such, more subtle tones/harmonics.

Don't get me wrong, it Growls, and breaths fire, too! But, to me,

it's biggest advantage happens, in the more subtle tonal areas.

The one main drawback, of the Casino (if there IS one), is it's

tendency to feedback, a lot qicker, than the Kat, or P-93. I love

Casino's, though. But, for the purposes of your Poll, I would have

to vote for the Riviera P-93. Being bigger bodied, it has a bit more

of the subtle tones, and resonance, of a Casino, but less feedback issues.

With the third P-90, even more tone possibilities...some even moving

toward "Gretsch like," in nature. But, you can do the 2-pickup style

tones, as well, by turning off the middle pickup.

 

So, ultimately, it comes down to which is BEST for YOU! Which does

(better) what YOU want it to do, and how it plays, and feels, to you.

 

CB

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Well said. I didn't know the wildkat was smaller, does this mean it will feedback less than the riviera? And what is with the price differences? And one more question, charlie brown... are you like the uber-fast, topic response guy?

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Interesting post... [thumbup]

 

For moi the Casino wins hands down...

 

It has huge history and mojo...and the original P90 cannot be beaten for what it is (hope that isn't too technical <_<)...

 

The other 2 are OK and will satisfy many players looking for what they offer...perhaps more versatility...

 

That is why the Casino is more expensive

 

Sometimes 3 pickups are too much to fiddle with

 

V

 

:-({|=

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Well said. I didn't know the wildkat was smaller, does this mean it will feedback less than the riviera? And what is with the price differences? And one more question, charlie brown... are you like the uber-fast, topic response guy?

 

LOL, "uber fast?" No...only sometimes, when my timing seems to be right after folks post somthing

of interest, to me. [biggrin]

 

As to feedback issues? Well, depends on situtation, amp volume, pickup selection, etc. I've never

really compared the two, that way. I've owned (and, will again) the P-93. I've only test played

the Kat. "I" actually liked the "Alleykat," the most, in the small bodied series. But, that's just

me. Check the retailers, but I think the price difference from the Riviera, to the Wildkat, is about

100 dollars, or so? They have several versions, of both, so there is probably some price differences,

there, as well. Regular, vs "Royale" versions.

 

Cheers,

CB

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I would like a middle pick because on me telestrat (telecaster with three pickups) i fnd my self using the middle one a lot, but with p90's, i just dont know... [confused] Besides, i can always turn off the middle pickup of a p93. and if turning the knob ALL THE WAY DOWN is too much of a chore <_< , you can install a push pull pot. One more thing, If someone has a casino and a semi hollow, can you demonstrate the feedback difference between the 2? You can wear earplugs

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YouTube, is your Friend! [thumbup][biggrin]

 

I don't have a Riviera, right now, to compare to my Casino, for "feedback!"

All I know, is that the Casino feeds back (resonance), a lot quicker, than

the Riviera, due to it's fully hollow nature. Any "harmonic"(squealing)

feedback (When there is any) would be about the same. Though some folks

claim the metal pickup covers, contribute a bit more, to that, than the

plastic covered pickups, on the P-93. Again, I never experienced any real

"harmonic" feed back, to any great extent...but, I was always pretty careful,

with volume & tone, controls, and amp placement.

 

But, if you want it, you can certain get both, and easier, with a Casino.

 

CB

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Sorry for the wait. And thank you for the "feedback" charlie brown [biggrin] . I play a lot of foo fighters type music which requires a fair amount of overdrive (which coincidentally is a foo fighters song :o ) so i have a feeling the casino won't be for me. One little question that's slightly off topic: Can i put a mini humbucker in a dog ear p90 slot? [confused]

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LOL, "uber fast?" No...only sometimes, when my timing seems to be right after folks post somthing

of interest, to me. [biggrin]

 

As to feedback issues? Well, depends on situtation, amp volume, pickup selection, etc. I've never

really compared the two, that way. I've owned (and, will again) the P-93. I've only test played

the Kat. "I" actually liked the "Alleykat," the most, in the small bodied series. But, that's just

me. Check the retailers, but I think the price difference from the Riviera, to the Wildkat, is about

100 dollars, or so? They have several versions, of both, so there is probably some price differences,

there, as well. Regular, vs "Royale" versions.

 

Cheers,

CB

Charlie, i think you may have started another topic (regular vs royale) [biggrin]

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To add to this thread, we can also talk about how the Wildkat starts off as a block of mahogany that gets routed out to make it a semi hollow then gets a maple cap (think a Les Paul with F wholes) while the Casino and the Riviera are maple sides back and top similar to a 335 in construction.

 

 

You've already stated, the biggest differences. [biggrin]

The Kat, is a small bodied, dual P-90 pick up guitar, with center

block, and Bigsby. It has great tone, but a bit less resonance,

than the Riviera P-93, which is, of course, a larger bodied guitar.

The Casino, is a whole different "animal." Being fully hollow body,

it has the most resonance, and as such, more subtle tones/harmonics.

Don't get me wrong, it Growls, and breaths fire, too! But, to me,

it's biggest advantage happens, in the more subtle tonal areas.

The one main drawback, of the Casino (if there IS one), is it's

tendency to feedback, a lot qicker, than the Kat, or P-93. I love

Casino's, though. But, for the purposes of your Poll, I would have

to vote for the Riviera P-93. Being bigger bodied, it has a bit more

of the subtle tones, and resonance, of a Casino, but less feedback issues.

With the third P-90, even more tone possibilities...some even moving

toward "Gretsch like," in nature. But, you can do the 2-pickup style

tones, as well, by turning off the middle pickup.

 

So, ultimately, it comes down to which is BEST for YOU! Which does

(better) what YOU want it to do, and how it plays, and feels, to you.

 

CB

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The Riviera and the Casino have the same body size, but the Casino is shorter overall because the neck and bridge are further down on the body. Although the scale length is the same, there's more accessible neck length on the Riviera, where the neck meets the body at the 20th fret, as opposed to the 17th on the Casino. As mentioned, the Riviera has a center block, which will add a bit more sustain and feedback resistance, at the expense of more resonance on the part of the Casino. I'd pick the Riviera P-93 because of the three-P90 setup.

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To add to this thread, we can also talk about how the Wildkat starts off as a block of mahogany that gets routed out to make it a semi hollow then gets a maple cap (think a Les Paul with F wholes) while the Casino and the Riviera are maple sides back and top similar to a 335 in construction.

I had no idea :o . So, if the wildkat had humbuckers, it would be very comparable to a les paul.

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I'll just add that I'll wager that the full hollow "arched top," albeit a thin body, likely is more expensive given it lacks the bracing of that solid block in a 335-design body. For example, I've heard some complaints about some archtops in some conditions having sag in the top, possibly due to either materials or material response to climate while wearing high-tension strings - but I've never heard of such on a 335 type.

 

I'd suggest too that for someone wanting a lotta controlled feedback, the Wildcat likely is a more appropriate choice.

 

m

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To add to this thread, we can also talk about how the Wildkat starts off as a block of mahogany that gets routed out to make it a semi hollow then gets a maple cap (think a Les Paul with F wholes) while the Casino and the Riviera are maple sides back and top similar to a 335 in construction.

That's surprising, in that the Rickenbacker 300-series guitars are built using that same technique, using maple as the wood of choice. It certainly has worked well for Rickenbacker. For me personally, though, I'd never buy another guitar with a vibrato, after decades of working around the vibrato in a Strat. One of the best days in my life was the day I blocked that thing. As far as I know, there's no similar process to disable the tailpieces in the Wildkat or Riviera.

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That's surprising, in that the Rickenbacker 300-series guitars are built using that same technique, using maple as the wood of choice. It certainly has worked well for Rickenbacker. For me personally, though, I'd never buy another guitar with a vibrato, after decades of working around the vibrato in a Strat. One of the best days in my life was the day I blocked that thing. As far as I know, there's no similar process to disable the tailpieces in the Wildkat or Riviera.

 

It's not necessary to "disable" a Bigsby. Just move the handle back along the base of the tailpiece, and it will behave like any other trapeze tailpiece without a vibrato. It's a much sturdier and more stable design than a Strat vibrato, with a much smaller pitch bend capability, so less prone to unintended "wobbles."

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Well... I pretty much disabled the Bigsby back int he '70s on a nice orange Gretsch. Simply blocked the place where the spring on the thing is.

 

I do think a roller bridge is pretty much needed for Gibson style bridges if you have any sorta whammy. Some folks will disagree, but that's been my experience and I'll add I do not currently own a guitar with one.

 

m

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Speaking of bigsbys and vibratos, is there something you can do to a bigsby so you do divebombs? i hear theres this lock that you put behind the nut and it keeps the guitar in tune after divebombing or pulling up :o . Or can i buy a floyd rose for an archtop? [drool]

The answer to my previous question has been found: you can put a mini humbucker in a dogear p90 route, you just have to carve a dog ear cover a bit

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I do think a roller bridge is pretty much needed for Gibson style bridges if you have any sorta whammy. Some folks will disagree, but that's been my experience and I'll add I do not currently own a guitar with one.

 

Agreed. Otherwise the strings hang up in the saddles to some extent. I put a roller bridge on my P-93.

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Thanks for the tips about the Bigsby vibrato handle techniques. Do the guitars still fit in their cases with the vibrato handles in that position?

A regular old epi 335 hardshell case should fit. A couple of reviews at musicians friend said it worked for their riviera p93, which has a bigsby.

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I own an Elitist Casino. It has become one of my favorite guitars of the last 50 years. It is an extremely well made and very versatile instrument..do NOT let the Epiphone brand fool you into thinking you are getting a 'lesser" guitar - the Casino is a first rate instrument, limited only by the player.

 

The feedback/hollowbody issue is very overblown, and can be easily overcome by just staying away from facing the amp while playing the guitar, which is not a real problem.

 

I love playing my Casino - I can not speak for the other guitars, but Epiphone has a long history of making hollow body guitars and making great ones...they know how to do that very well...FWIW, don't neglect the Dot, Riviera, or other fine Epiphones.

 

You should really get to play as many as you can to see the differences and which YOU prefer...YOU will be playing it.

added - I have several guitars with Bigsbys...I just hardly ever use them. They are nothing like a Strat trem at all.

 

 

mark

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Looking at the thread's title again...

 

These instruments are all similar and yet all somewhat different.

 

"Value" is pretty subjective on a guitar, IMHO. So perhaps the best response is "play 'em" and value most the one that fits your geometry and that seems to help you play what it is you do...

 

m

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Essentially, yea!

Here is a photo of the WIldkat before its cap!

 

0we8.jpg

 

I had no idea :o . So, if the wildkat had humbuckers, it would be very comparable to a les paul.

 

 

 

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