Looks Or Playability?

[capmaster]

Hi Izzy,

 

would have initially wanted to post this to your private e-mail address, but since you keep it private and it's about the content of your current signature, I hope it could be OK for you that I post publicly on the issue you described there.

 

So I quote your words here: "forced to shorten strap to prevent neck pain, feels totally uncool with guitar up high"

 

I have my own story how I came from what I meant to be good-looking to a more useful wearing of my guitars. By the way, there are more flashy and more practical ways for setting up drums & cymbals, too that I dealt with in the past.

 

First of all, it is not nice to feel uncool when on stage. I suffered this sometimes, too. Until I was half my actual age, I sacrificed playability and versatility for my stage appearance. I think I did it because I was more vain than sensible these days. However, in the end I had to admit that it is harder for me to feel uncomfortably. The worst thing for me was to make avoidable playing mistakes sometimes due to my impractical settings chosen for looks only.

 

So my personal result is after experimenting with strap length over the years, that it's best to set it for convenient playability and, if applicable, in order to feel comfortably during singing. So I ended up with the guitar right before my belly, its neck axis slightly above my navel, the neck slightly showing upwards and a bit to the front. I set my straps this way for both guitars and basses which all are fretted. It works flawlessly for me even on long-scale basses since the slight upward angle of the neck is sufficient for fingering notes at the lowest frets. Far from being as talented, skilled or virtuoso as Joe Bonamassa, I wear my instruments approximately as he does.

 

The following more detailed descriptions apply to me as a right-handed player. I found out that I have to set the strap length for easy fingering open chords. As my fingers are relatively wide and short, and I am rather limited in stretching them apart, I have to pay attention that the left forearm and hand form a straight line when fretting open C. In order to fret different chords, I sometimes have to rotate the left forearm a bit to avoid unintended muting of strings although this makes fast chord changes a bit uncomfortable. Additionally, I have to keep the fingernails of the left hand so short that next to no white is left. Otherwise, I would either mar the fretboard or unwantedly mute strings. To refer to Joe Bonamassa again, I can't understand how he can play with those long fingernails on his left hand. I wasn't able to produce anything but barchords or single notes this way...

 

As a consequence, I had to adapt my picking techniques to be able to fret correctly. There are three groups of instruments I have to serve, hardtail guitars, vibrato-equipped guitars, and fretted basses. These groups can be further classified e. g. depending on the space between bridge and lower bout, arched or flat top, different body height etc. All these properties require a different approach to string attack. Interestingly, instrument weight and neck heaviness are no problems at all, and I have them under control using convenient straps. To keep it short and give a summary only, I generally don't have significant troubles with certain instrument designs but think it's a special challenge to use palm-muted techniques on vibrato bridges and the Babicz bridge of the Gibson EB 2013.

 

Sometimes further compromises are required, when e. g. I want to play bottle-neck lines and fretted chords alternately on a guitar with the high string action setting required for bottle-neck use, and to sing at the same time. But I think to talk more detailed about such special applications would go too far for the first post.

 

With best regards,

 

capmaster

[cabba2203]

Comfort and Playability.

[badbluesplayer]

The closer your hands are to your breastbone, the stronger and more agile they are. So go from there.....

[Notes_Norton]

In order from most important to least important:

1. Playability
   
2. Comfort
   
3. Looks
   

[Rabs]

I did a thread sort of similar but put it in a different way.. Was some interesting responses

 

http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/89843-playing-position-when-standing/page__p__1232217__hl__gun+slinger__fromsearch__1#entry1232217

[milod]

Well, first I'll recommend looking at YouTube with Joe Pass and Segovia, then compare to what we're talking about.

 

In both cases one might make a case that the guitar body itself is held relatively low (see Pass both playing an early gig using a Fender Jaguar as well as his usual ES175) but that the neck is angled up so that much of the actual playing is at a level physically higher than the bellybutton. Ditto BB and most traditional bluesers, Buchanan, etc.

 

It's my observation that a lotta those who play very low are roughly at the limit of their arm's reach and are limited - although some are quite able to do a certain style of playing, but that also tends to be limited, skilled though it may be. It seems to this old picker that most either is "rhythm" or high up on the neck - or it's beyond arm's reach or the guitar neck has to be tilted big time "up" so lower frets can be accessed.

 

m

[jdgm]

Comfort and Playability.

 

Yup. That's it.

[STEVIL]

In order from most important to least important:

1. Playability
   
2. Comfort
   
3. Looks
   

 

+1

 

That!

 

[charlie brown]

Again, like "flash or substance," it's an intersting question!

 

FIRST (to me, anyway) it has to be an attractive enough design,

to make me want to even pick it up, to play. I would never buy

a guitar (or, anything esle, for that matter) on "looks" alone!

BUT, it's an initial factor, in deciding if you want to even try

to play it, and or be seen playing it. LOL Of course, playability,

and sound, or "Tone," is critical! But, if you don't like the looks

to begin with, you're probably not going to pick it up, much less

purchase it...all things being equal. At least, IMHO.

 

CB

[Riffster]

I have to have a differet perspective on this topic. I periodically have to adjust because of my arm, shoulder and neck issues after having sugery.

 

The other day I found myself lowering my LP because I have had a stiff arm and hand for a few weeks now, I essentially have to have my shoulders down and my arms must be all but hanging. Playing suffers due to high fret access but not as much as when I hang my guitar high.

 

I am getting a deep tissue massage tomorrow so I should be better after that.

 

Frankly I think the style of music sort of dictates how you can hang your guitar.

 

Also, guitars "hang" differently, Explorers are the best balanced guitars ever but try to play one high and it is not going to work out too well, on the other hand you rarely see SG players hanging their guitar low and there is a reason for that.

[darling67]

I voted "Playability".

 

When it comes right down to it, I want to be able to play the thing as well as possible. Too close/high? I'm feeling boxed-in and constricted. Too far/slung low? I can't reach the damn fretboard!

[bonzoboy]

Playability is directly related to wearing comfort.If you wear the guitar in an awkward position such as knee high as Jimmy Page used to,you won't be able to play your best because of the extreme reaching and wrist bending that you'd have to do.I always make sure that my guitar straps are adjusted to the playing height that I'm comfortable with and each guitar that I play on a regular basis has its own strap so I don't have to go messing around adjusting the strap every time I change guitars.I never was into playing for looks-comfort is what it's all about.If you pick the optimal comfortable position you'll be able to play your best,without having to strain or contort your body into all kinds of weird positions to just reach the fretboard.

[surfpup]

Arm length could be a factor as well. We are not all built symmetrically like the Vitruvian man! I suspect that those known for slinging it super low also may have longer than normal arms per their torso. Generally my electric guitars seem comfortable when my picking hand is right at belt buckle level.

[rct]

I have two straps, both Dunlopped because I use them on all my guitars and bassii. One for guitars with buttons up on the horn, the other one for guitars with the button on the heel, SG and Explorer for example. They are both the same length. I've been using both for more than 20 years. I haven't noticed a problem and before this thread and in about ten minutes I won't think about how high or low my guitars are again.

 

rct

[milod]

For what it's worth, I also have a strap for each guitar because I have few that have a similar shape. It's just easier.

 

Each is played somewhat differently, but I guess most would figure I wear them relatively high, but the idea is to have them at roughly the same place and angle as if I were playing a classical guitar.

 

That's not just Bach. <grin> Ditto stuff like Flamenco. There are faster pickers in that genre than Carlos Montoya, but he should ought to offer an example that appears typical for a certain type of "shredding." <grin>

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEPLNaUR8lw

 

m

[rocketman]

Wow that was incredible, but how can he see what he's playing?!? His guitar is way out in front of him.

[milod]

Rocketman...

 

Actually he varies the hold a bit, depending. I got to sit maybe 20-30 feet from him in concert, floor level, in the summer of '65. I took a friend's girlfriend - he couldn't go and she wanted to - and I fear I embarrassed her by almost drooling on the floor. Well, in those days one wore a suit to such events and I didn't wanna drool on the suit. The guy was incredible and I'd been at the time trying to do some basic flamenco material.

 

Regardless, though, he wasn't oogling the fingerboard as many tend to, even some exceptional pickers.

 

In a sense I've read he wasn't a "traditional" picker of that genre for a number of reasons, but I'd say he knew the fingerboard and he knew what he wanted to do with the strings with his right hand. I'd told too that he could be ornery. So... I find that rather appealing too.

 

m

[NHTom]

I've always wished I could wear my guitars "Steve Clark" low........looks cool....

 

Between my "Round" body type and the fact that I broke my left wrist when I was 12 has always meant that I've had to wear them higher than I wanted for hand comfort and playability.

 

NHTom

[charlie brown]

Whatever is comfortable, playing, for long periods of time.

The position varies, a bit, with what style of the guitar I'm playing.

 

I've never been able to do the "low rider" "Rock Star" thing!

It feels ridiculous (to me), and (on Me) looks even worse... LOL

 

CB

[4Hayden]

wearing comfort

playability

instrument safety

[Izzy]

Hi Izzy,

 

would have initially wanted to post this to your private e-mail address, but since you keep it private and it's about the content of your current signature, I hope it could be OK for you that I post publicly on the issue you described there.

 

So I quote your words here: "forced to shorten strap to prevent neck pain, feels totally uncool with guitar up high"

 

 

 

Funny thing is lately (6 monhs maybe) I've let myself drop the strap a bit lower because its more comfortable. I think I've finally gotten to a level that feels natural, and natural makes me more confident because I'm not thinking about the strap at all. Honestly, the "dork look" hadn't been an issue came up because my ex was the one who made fun of me. I hadn't thought about how high up I wore the thing until he called me out. The comment got to me for a week or so because it made me pay attention to how others wore their straps, but I got over it quick. Tried it low like Page and thought, "wtf, how? ugh, nvm!"

 

Also, I looked at pics of guitarists who, unlike Slash and Page, had the guitars higher up. Seeing John Mayer with the guitar at a nice sensible level made me less self consious. I can play longer if I am comfortable and playing is cool. My ex doesn't play, the heck does he know!

[kaleb]

It depends on what style I'm playing.

 

I can't play Jimmy Page licks with it up high. I can't play Van Halen licks with it low.

 

I prefer the middle area.

[capmaster]

Funny thing is lately (6 monhs maybe) I've let myself drop the strap a bit lower because its more comfortable. I think I've finally gotten to a level that feels natural, and natural makes me more confident because I'm not thinking about the strap at all. ...

I can play longer if I am comfortable and playing is cool. My ex doesn't play, the heck does he know!

Correct approach IMHO, in both sensible and emotional ways I believe.

[RaysEpiphone]

I'm mainly a Solo Acoustic Act so I have to be able to sing and play at my best. I sit-down most always but if I do stand I need both vocal and playing maximums.

[milod]

Well... I've always preached "comfort."

 

As with Ray, I'm mostly doing solo material so I do tend to sit - as in my little avatar - and if I'm standing the guitar is pretty much in the same position.

 

A lot also has to do with how you play, your physical geometry, the guitar, etc.

 

I will add that I think a lot of us get a guitar for "tone" or whatever, rather than specifically for comfort. One should note that Joe Pass played mostly an ES175 and frankly I always figured he wore a guitar in kinda a middle position, but with even more angle than the average classical guitarist.

 

I really enjoy the 175 size myself; 16-inch lower bout, relatively thin (compared to dreads and a lotta straight acoustics) and the 24 3/4 scale as opposed to the 25 1/2. For my one solidbody, it's an SG I wear relatively high.

 

But IMHO, everybody will have somewhat different preferences based entirely on comfort after a number of years playing so their playing rather than specifically their appearance is what counts to them.

 

Given your background, you've seen mariachi guitar (type instruments) being played. Note that the strummers tend to wear them middle and the pickers a bit higher with a bit more tilt. But also notice that physical size of the instrument vs the picker plays a significant role too.

 

I keep saying that the guitar that helps you play is the one to own; and the physical position that helps you perform your best ditto.

 

m