merseybeat1963 Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I asked this gentleman who has a stable of very high end guitars about comparisons as I was most interested in his Braz J200 Bozeman..Gibson. He said: "Honestly my experience with Braz guitars hasnt been so positive, not that they are bad guitars or anything but for the price I expected a lot more out of these guitars. No doubt their collectibility is off the chart but the sound is not always as pleasing. Out of my Braz guitars, my H&D 00-SP is by far my favorite. It is such a small body but honestly I feel that it's louder than my J200!!! Putting these 2 side by side the H&D looks like a toy guitar (due to the diff in size) but boy H&D beats the crap out of the J200 in terms of sound." This is why I think Brazilian Rosewood is totally wasted on most Martins..and Gibsons..because the extra effort is not put into those guitars at the voicing stage... ..instead built to spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-200 Koa Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Over the years I have owned an SJ-200 Brazilian, an SJ-200 Madagascar and currently an SJ-200 Indian Rosewood. The Madagascar had the best tone and volume by far. The Brazilian made me a lot of money when I sold. Depends if you are buying them to play, keep or sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-200 Koa Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Also, the size of the body does not always equate to volume. Ask any owner of an AJ Luthier's Choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I don't understand this sort of topic. Firstly , why is volume such a big deal? Maybe an amp is what's needed. Secondly , If Gibson rosewood is not giving you the sound you want then you are not buying the correct guitar. Should Gibson change what they do because a lone voice in the fog says 'I don't like this'? There are hundreds if not thousands of guitar builders . go find one that suits you. Thousands of people happen to like very much what Gibson do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I think that's why I'm not a rosewood fan to begin with ... there's a video where Chris Martin claims that the 1942 D 45 they got in there museum is the best guitar he has ever heard ... later in the video it is played and it sounded like total junk to me ... after that they played the first D 28 ever made (12 fret & slope shouldered) and I really loved the sound that came out of it (it's also had brazilian b/s) I think not always the biggest guitars are the best sounding ... Like you say I think it depends on how well the guitar is built . I think I enjoy the sound of mahogany , koa & maple much more than I do rosewood . not to say you can't find some good indian rosewood J 200's or D 45's . but I have never really jumped on the braz rosewood wagon .And I have also read that a bigger body does not always translate in more sound JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 It still amazes me how loud the little (old) blues boxes can be. But loudness is only one of the overall characteristics of a guitar's sound. I have a couple loud guitars, but I most often choose the one whose natural "eq setting" is what I'd rather be hearing at the moment. The SJ-200 has never seemed overpoweringly loud to me. It's strong suit (imho) is bass note articulation. Something about that combination of body size,shape, scale length, & maple. Brazilian's mythological status combines with scarcity that has a hard time justifying it's cost purely on the basis of sound quality. Usually quite beautiful & dramatic. However, more potential to not match expectations, if anything. But when all of the elements come together, as in the body of a Pre-War Martin Herringbone, it can be magical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 The SJ-200 has never seemed overpoweringly loud to me. It's strong suit (imho) is bass note articulation. Something about that combination of body size,shape, scale length, & maple. Exactly. Who ever said that J-200's are meant to be loud. I reckon my LG-2 is louder than my J-150. Ive played a few Brazilians, some were so, so but it really stands out on 50's D-28's from the few I played which sounded great ... and I dont even like D-28's ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modoc_333 Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I think that's why I'm not a rosewood fan to begin with ... there's a video where Chris Martin claims that the 1942 D 45 they got in there museum is the best guitar he has ever heard ... later in the video it is played and it sounded like total junk to me ... after that they played the first D 28 ever made (12 fret & slope shouldered) and I really loved the sound that came out of it (it's also had brazilian b/s) I think not always the biggest guitars are the best sounding ... Like you say I think it depends on how well the guitar is built . I think I enjoy the sound of mahogany , koa & maple much more than I do rosewood . not to say you can't find some good indian rosewood J 200's or D 45's . but I have never really jumped on the braz rosewood wagon .And I have also read that a bigger body does not always translate in more sound JC I think it's actually a 41 D45. I have played both of those guitars and I will tell you, that D45 really is the best sounding acoustic guitar I have ever heard. I don't know about on the video you saw, but in person it killed that D28 (which is a great guitar in it's own right) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannusguy2 Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I had a 1964 0021NY with BRW. Never bonded with its tone. Kept it about a year or so and moved it along. On the other hand my Western Classic was a great sounding guitar with EIR. My 72 D28 sounds great as well. Caveat emptor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Of all my guitars, the Keb Mo is probably the loudest.... and the smallest. Maybe these guitars have 'weeman syndrome'. Who knows.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-200 Koa Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I don't understand this sort of topic. Firstly , why is volume such a big deal? Maybe an amp is what's needed. Secondly , If Gibson rosewood is not giving you the sound you want then you are not buying the correct guitar. Should Gibson change what they do because a lone voice in the fog says 'I don't like this'? There are hundreds if not thousands of guitar builders . go find one that suits you. Thousands of people happen to like very much what Gibson do I think the OP was saying that just because a guitar is built with Brazilian Rosewood does not mean that it will be louder, or clearer, or more articulate than a comparable model in another tonewood. Brazilian is nice but it is not the end all in guitar wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogeye Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 I asked this gentleman who has a stable of very high end guitars about comparisons as I was most interested in his Braz J200 Bozeman..Gibson. He said: "Honestly my experience with Braz guitars hasnt been so positive, not that they are bad guitars or anything but for the price I expected a lot more out of these guitars. No doubt their collectibility is off the chart but the sound is not always as pleasing. Out of my Braz guitars, my H&D 00-SP is by far my favorite. It is such a small body but honestly I feel that it's louder than my J200!!! Putting these 2 side by side the H&D looks like a toy guitar (due to the diff in size) but boy H&D beats the crap out of the J200 in terms of sound." This is why I think Brazilian Rosewood is totally wasted on most Martins..and Gibsons..because the extra effort is not put into those guitars at the voicing stage... ..instead built to spec. The only Brazilian Rosewood J-200's I know of came from Gibson's "Custom Shop". They were not built to spec but were handcrafted by the best luthiers Gibson had. Think John Walker, Kevin Kopp, Mike Bakeberg or Ren Ferguson here. I own a Brazilian Ray Whitley that I watched being built at every stage. Even the engraving of the inlays which was done by John Walker. The body was made by Mike Bakeberg and it is incredible. I never judge a guitar by its volume but by its ability to produce clean, clear sounding, balanced, individual notes. If you have a loud guitar that doesn't sound good then all you have is a loud noise maker. My guitar's top was voiced by Kevin Kopp and I consider it to be perfect. The balance is amazing and the note separation is perfect. I played every one of the 37 Ray Whitleys Gibson made and didn't find a bad guitar in the bunch. I know most of the players in the Brazilian field and would like to know why a guy would buy a guitar that has such a high price tag and he has such a low opinion of. Just curious. I don't know of any collectors that value volume over tone. Well I guess you had to be there. The expert you quote wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 I think the OP was saying that just because a guitar is built with Brazilian Rosewood does not mean that it will be louder, or clearer, or more articulate than a comparable model in another tonewood. Brazilian is nice but it is not the end all in guitar wood. Yeah. I kinda understand that but hogeye is closer to what's confusing me - 'and would like to know why a guy would buy a guitar that has such a high price tag and he has such a low opinion of. Just curious.' Its a bit like ordering a shirt and complaining that it doesn't look as good on yourself as it does on the model in the ad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisA83 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Yeah. I kinda understand that but hogeye is closer to what's confusing me - 'and would like to know why a guy would buy a guitar that has such a high price tag and he has such a low opinion of. Just curious.' Its a bit like ordering a shirt and complaining that it doesn't look as good on yourself as it does on the model in the ad Two possibilities: "not that they are bad guitars or anything" "No doubt their collectibility is off the chart" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Yeah. I kinda understand that but hogeye is closer to what's confusing me - 'and would like to know why a guy would buy a guitar that has such a high price tag and he has such a low opinion of. Just curious.' Its a bit like ordering a shirt and complaining that it doesn't look as good on yourself as it does on the model in the ad Agreed. Hogeye makes a good point, volume is not the be all to end all, it's merely a bonus if it's a decent sounding guitar. On the flip of that, such is the lure of Braz that even less than utterly amazing samples will still exchange for big money based on that wood being part of the specs. Guess it's just one of the idiosyncrasies of the genre and of course there will be collectors of varying tastes. I guess we must always remember in the 'tone' world, one man's meat is another man's poison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 I don't understand this sort of topic. Firstly , why is volume such a big deal? Maybe an amp is what's needed. If it wasn't such a big deal we would not constantly be informed that "my guitar is a real canon". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-200 Koa Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 If it wasn't such a big deal we would not constantly be informed that "my guitar is a real canon". I wonder if people who enjoy canons ever say "my canon is a real guitar"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted August 16, 2013 Author Share Posted August 16, 2013 When I saw the list of guitars this guy had I almost pee'd myself. So I really wanted his opinion. The main point in there was not the loudness it seemed to me...though he does remark on the loudness mostly because of how puny that 00 H&D is.. but that it beats the crap out of the Braz J200 in sound. Interesting opinion from a guy that owns both and a Braz Lowden..and..and..and.. If I had the money Id have have sent it to that guy with that Vase inlayed Braz J200 on ebay a long time ago, without ever playing it. Those J200's are like the best looking guitars ever made.. Kind of like Madonna (in her prime)...what a beauty..then, you listen to her talk..yeechs! Also I swear I think H&D guitars are as good as Golden Era guitars..and that it won't last forever.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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