powerpopper Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 I tried out a SWD 12 string a while ago and thought it was ok, but nothing spectacular. Maybe my local shop got a bad one. In looking through the offerings from other makers, the pickings seem rather slim. I would prefer not to have a 12 string Maple, which the lower to mid-priced Guilds are. Right now, I'm trying out a Seagull Artist Studio Burst (RW b/s w/ LR Baggs i-Beam Duet System), which is also "ok" though the bass is sorely lacking when unplugged. Then again, the price is right. Are 12 strings just a lost art now? Or have they always been and I just hadn't noticed, lol? pp p.s. I'm not crazy about Taylors at all, but I guess that might be the next logical step? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 I tried out a SWD 12 string a while ago and thought it was ok' date=' but nothing spectacular. Maybe my local shop got a bad one. In looking through the offerings from other makers, the pickings seem rather slim. I would prefer not to have a 12 string Maple, which the lower to mid-priced Guilds are. Right now, I'm trying out a Seagull Artist Studio Burst (RW b/s w/ LR Baggs i-Beam Duet System), which is also "ok" though the bass is sorely lacking when unplugged. Then again, the price is right. Are 12 strings just a lost art now? Or have they always been and I just hadn't noticed, lol? pp p.s. I'm not crazy about Taylors at all, but I guess that might be the next logical step?[/quote'] A lot of people will say that 12-string guitars are "One Trick Ponies". There may be some truth to that, but I tend to think that a broader more balanced view is better. Certain types of music or certain songs and artists have certainly placed a strong 'stamp' of 12-string-ness on them, but that's not to say you can't play "Feel a Whole Lot Better" or "Walk Right In" on a 6-string only (gasp!). :-) I've got 2 12-string guitars currently -- A Rickenbacker Tom Petty 660/12 model and a 12-string built by Michael Heiden (mandolin builder whiz). I've had others -- a Fender something (awful) and two Bozeman-built Gibsons. Of the Gibbies, one was a 93 J-200Jr-12, the other a 99 J-185-12. Tonally, the J-185-12 had it in spades over its earlier predecessor. Both are 16" small jumbos, both maple, both short scale. Both were sold by me, because I just could not comfortably play the 1 7/8" neck on the two. As to design, I like the small jumbo body in a "bright" tonewood like maple, koa or ???, as it seems to bring a nice balance of sparkle, balance and volume to the guitar, and in a larger 17" jumbo shape, I find the tone can get a little mushy and lost. I guess I call the 16" jumbo a little more "articulate"/ That goes for my experience with the dread-shaped Songwriter Deluxe too -- my preference leans towards the 16" jumbo. My Heiden 12 is a small jumbo, in koa, and I specified a 1.75 nut width and reasonably low neck profile, to enable the playability of the guitar. (Remember, most Rick 12s come with a 1 and 5/8" nut width!!). Posts like yours remind me to haul out that 12 more often, and put songs besides "Yer So Bad" through their paces -- I just don't do that enough! So it'll be "Silent Night" and "Cry of a Tiny Babe" tonight.... Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerpopper Posted December 22, 2008 Author Share Posted December 22, 2008 I've got 2 12-string guitars currently -- A Rickenbacker Tom Petty 660/12 model and a 12-string built by Michael Heiden (mandolin builder whiz). I've got a Rickenbacker 660/12, just not the TP version. Love it. Perhaps it is something of a one trick pony, but when you want to do that one trick... According to Bill Gonders, the SWD 12 is the only 12 string Gibson has in production right now. Perhaps I will look into a Jumbo-style Gibby 12... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Popper, Id strongly suggest mahog for a 12. With the extra course of strings going, the clarity of mahog keeps the whole thing in balance. Id 2nd Fred on the small jumbo for a 12-- again, for the balance of projection and clarity; Id steer clear of a square shoulder dread, even in hog--too boomy. Re models, Guild builds a small jumbo hog 12, F112 or F212(?). Larrivee makes one that is kind of nice on the L-body frame (like a slope jumbo). Taylors have a decent rep if you dont mind a 17" jumbo, but they are too feathery for me. I think a J185 or j45 would make a great frame for a 12> custom shop? ps 12 fret 12s are a cool trip. I got to borrrow a playing partners Fraulini (Todd Cambio) 12 for a while--that was a treat. Great blues and folk sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcadian Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Taylor, Guild and Breedlove are quality 12 string makers. Check out ebay and Gbase for listings and that will give you an idea of price, specs and availability. I happen to like Maple over 'hog when it comes to 12 strings (the US built Guild F412 and F512 is great but expensive), but to each his, or her, own. I own an awesome '03, 6-string, Gibson SWD which has opened up a lot but I was looking for a different sound in a 12 string...so I'm still A/Bing the makers I mentioned above but am real close to pulling the trigger on a Guild...I would add that of all the 12 strings I've tried, I've not found a good (new) one costing less than $1000...although the Seagull was, as you say Popper, "ok." I agree with the comments about the jumbo shape being much better than the dreads for 12ers. As for songs, there is a sticky over at UMGF (in the '12 String Cafe' forum) with suggestions for loads of great songs to play on a 12er...They include Hazy Shade of Winter, Maggie May, Melissa, some Tom Petty numbers and Pink Floyd classics. A good mix that will sound great if you get a great 12 string... Rc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pohatu771 Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 I played a $700 Martin 12-string once, and it was possibly the best-sounding guitar I've ever played. It was just alive. I'm not much for twelve-strings, but I would buy that one in a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnt Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 IMVHO, if a 6 string choice is down to the player and can be regarded as subjective, then a 12 string is far more so. There isn't much choice with Gibson but hey, as others have said, there ARE other makes of guitar! I covet a Knight 12 and missed one on evilbay 3 months ago. Tracked another down in Sussex two weeks ago, drove 80 miles and it was rubbish! My SWD 12 has all the bells I need but I am intrigued,as I often am with jkinnamas observations, about his comments re mahog. The rosewood on the SWD can sound a little thick. Guild (is it the F512 with the bling) sounds great, but they've always been as rare as hens teeth. Lowden, Breedlove but to me A Taylor of J185 12 might fit the bill. But then I am a 12 string freak! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarstrummer Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 According to Bill Gonders' date=' the SWD 12 is the only 12 string Gibson has in production right now. Perhaps I will look into a Jumbo-style Gibby 12...[/quote'] Bill Gonder is correct, the SWD is the only regular production 12 string being produced. However, they have been known to put out some special runs of 12 string models. I've seen a J185, SJ200, and Hummingbird 12 string offered in the past couple of years. I have four 12 string guitars (Yamaha, Takamine, Martin, and the Gibson SWD). Like six string models, they all have a different sound, so you should have the sound in mind that you're looking for and play several different ones before deciding which one to buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponty Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Fullers Vintage Guitars have a Gibson AJ 12 string at the moment. It has a massive bridge. Looks nice though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 "I played a $700 Martin 12-string once" --forgot about Martin. They offer several 16" jumbo versions. A 12 fret d12-20 is also worth looking into. Very cool, if set up right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pohatu771 Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 This is the model I played. Apparently it cost less than I remember: http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Martin-D12X1-12String-Solid-Top-Acoustic-Guitar?sku=513319 If the HPL turns you off, there are a few higher-priced options: http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Martin-DM12-12String-Dreadnought-Acoustic-Guitar?sku=514708 http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Martin-D12GTM-Solid-Top-12-String-Dreadnought-Acoustic-Guitar-?sku=512099 http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Martin-D1228-12String-Dreadnought-Guitar?sku=514768 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWilson Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 I don't play my 12 string very often so I couldn't justify spending big bucks on one. I wasn't actually looking for one when I played my Alvarez at a local shop. It had a great tone and the action is low and very easy to play. Here is the same one on MF. The one I bought was about the same price. The people that bought this 12 have given it pretty good reviews. If you're just looking for an occasional player this may fill the bill for you. http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Alvarez-RD20S12-Regent-Series-Dreadnought-12String-Acoustic-Guitar?sku=518726 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 ... I've seen a J185' date=' SJ200, and Hummingbird 12 string offered in the past couple of years. ...[/quote'] Fuller's had a 12-string AJ awhile ago. Not all that tempting -- since I'm one of the people who believe 12 strings and rosewood don't play well together -- but I'd enjoy the chance to try one! -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerpopper Posted December 23, 2008 Author Share Posted December 23, 2008 Fuller's had a 12-string AJ awhile ago. Not all that tempting -- since I'm one of the people who believe 12 strings and rosewood don't play well together -- but I'd enjoy the chance to try one! -- Bob R I understand about Rosewood and 12. So what's your prerference...Maple or Hog and 12? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballcorner Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 The best 12 strings I have ever played are US-built Guilds from the 1960s through to the mid 1980s. They aren't easy to find on the used market, at least not where I live, but if you are patient you will likely find one close enough to home. I agree with jk that you want mahogany back and sides. Rosewood is too brooding for a 12, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 I understand about Rosewood and 12. So what's your prerference...Maple or Hog and 12? My all-time fave was maple, but that's the only good acoustic 12-string I've ever owned. Come to think of it, I guess I still own that guitar, although I doubt I'll ever see it again. One of my brothers "borrowed" it (without asking, naturally) about 35 years ago. -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertjohn Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 I have a Tak - see below for the model. It's a solid spruce top with laminate maple back and sides. I bought it used from a shop having played an SWD 12 at the same time. The Tak was 1/4 of the price! It's a fantastic sounding 12er and I love playing it. I knew I'd found a goodun' as soon as I played that first open G. The SWD was better but not 4 times better. I'm told that the top is far more important relatively, in a 12er, compared to a 6er. I've played Taylors and Yamahas but the best 12er I've played is an SJ 185 belonging to my teacher. If you come across one, stop and pay attention - it's what I'll be doing in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinder Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 my bandmate Simon has a '74 Guild F212 small jumbo Hog 12. It is completely decimated, cracked and bellied to heck and back, but it plays like butter (in spite of everything!) and sounds utterly wonderful. My producer Steve also has an early '80s Guild Hog dread 12, with an arched, un-braced back. Is is an absolute cannon and sounds dreamy. We used it on our new album, and it inspired the purchase of Simon's F212. I am a Gibson man through and through, but Guild really do know how to make an exquisite 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearbasher Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 Fullers has a Hummingbird 12er: http://www.fullersguitar.com/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,1989/category_id,166/manufacturer_id,0/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,34/vmcchk,1/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearbasher Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 Fullers has a Hummingbird 12er: http://www.fullersguitar.com/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,1989/category_id,166/manufacturer_id,0/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,34/vmcchk,1/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearbasher Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 Fullers has a Hummingbird 12er: http://www.fullersguitar.com/component/option,com_virtuemart/page,shop.browse/category_id,103/Itemid,42/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New York City Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 I recently added a Gibson Songwriter Deluxe 12-String purchased from Mandolin Brothers. I'm still gaining comfort with it and well . . . the jury is out. It's going back today for a few adjustments and I'm thinking that as I spend more time playing it, I'll grow more comfortable. I had two old, a 1983 Washburn and an old Epiphone 12-strings, and they both have their own unique sort of sounds. The Gibson is a very clear, clean, signature 12 string and the workmanship is fabulous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnt Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 I recently added a Gibson Songwriter Deluxe 12-String purchased from Mandolin Brothers. I'm still gaining comfort with it and well . . . the jury is out. It's going back today for a few adjustments and I'm thinking that as I spend more time playing it' date=' I'll grow more comfortable. I had two old, a 1983 Washburn and an old Epiphone 12-strings, and they both have their own unique sort of sounds. The Gibson is a very clear, clean, signature 12 string and the workmanship is fabulous. [/quote'] Hi NYC First welcome. I have an SWD12 also and am beginning to get to grips with it after one year, one neck reset ( I bought it from Evilbay!) I am sure that as time goes on you'll get to THE decision with yours, mines a keeper All Best Oh and BTW the forum traditions are that when we get a new guitar we demand pics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermionik Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 powerpopper - I've had several non-Gibson 12's over the years (Harmony, Harmony fake, Yamaha, Shaftsbury, Ovation etc) and loved them all, most either suffered from the tension and got sold on before it got too bad, only the Shaftsbury survived the long haul - 35 years before it bellied too far. Now I only have the fake Harmony, bought deliberately for slide playing because, with it's action, they gave it away for 20 bucks. However, over Christmas I was honoured to play Johnt's SWD 12-string. Puts the others in the shade. Big chords and fast changes right through to delicate finger-picking. Fabulous feel, spectacular sound. Played a toon I last played live some thirty years back on a London radio station (Capitol Radio), then on a truly stonking Martin D-35 v-backed 12-string borrowed from a guy in the studio, and this almost felt like I was doing it again. So to answer your question - you may well have picked up a "friday afternoon" bad one..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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