charlie brown Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 I have to wonder, at times, if my "musical" ear, and/or mind, just get's tired, of a particular "tone." I say (and, ask) this, because it doesn't seem to matter, which guitar I use, with whatever amp... eventually, either the tone changes (in the amp, I suspect), or... more likely, my ear just gets too used to, and/or "bored" with it! It's really not a matter of "good or bad," just odd! Does this ever happen, to any of you?! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Then GAS happens...I've never had it occur because I switch instruments so much and don't play guitar as often as you probably do. Maybe it is also because you're playing the same stuff... Try playing punk for a bit. Yeah, it isn't your thing, but breaking up the monotony for a day won't kill you and maybe you get an appreciation for the energy of punk. Pedals are a good alternative to refreshing the sound of old gear I am SO sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quapman Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Does this ever happen, to any of you?! CB Absolutely,, I think it happens to everyone. And it only seems to happen when I'm playing regular. I think sometime you just need a break. Although I'm sure some will chime in and say it's the humidity. But I really believe in breaks when things get stale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted August 22, 2013 Author Share Posted August 22, 2013 Thanks, Izzy... :) Maybe it's just because I play by myself, too much! I do play a variety of genre's, and styles, so...changing that doesn't seem to help, that much. I just can't help but wonder, why any of that, would seem to effect what I'm actually hearing??? I wonder, if one's ears finally get "enough," and "shut down," a bit...where things tend to sound harsher, or sometimes more muffled? I play reasonably loud, but not so much so, that it should be that kind of a problem. And, I never stand directly in front of the amp, either, in these instances. Sigh ...it's probably just frustration, with not being able to play with other's, and/or "out" much (as there's no real opportunity, that often around here, anymore), more than anything? Venue's offering "live music," on any kind of regular basis, are all but disappearing, in favor of "Karaoke," DJ's, or (mostly) just the "Internet Juke boxes" with awesome sound systems. Who knows? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted August 22, 2013 Author Share Posted August 22, 2013 Absolutely,, I think it happens to everyone. And it only seems to happen when I'm playing regular. I think sometime you just need a break. Although I'm sure some will chime in and say it's the humidity. But I really believe in breaks when things get stale. Well, "breaks" do help, some! It just seems "odd," to me...to be that noticeable. Then again, I may be the only one, that notices it. I never seem to hear people listening, or my other musician friends, mention any of this. And, even after a break, the time it takes to go from the normal "good" tone, to noticeable less than, is shorter, too! That's why I wonder if it's some kind of ear/mind fatique? Ear=physical fatigue, and "mind" being "bored," again. I actually don't know if "bored" is the right term? Sigh! Humidity, IS a factor, with speakers...especially outdoors. But, this is mostly inside, where that's more a constant. Anyway, thanks...for the responses/ideas, past and future! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quapman Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Sigh ...it's probably just frustration, with not being able to play with other's, and CB Dude,, I totally get that. I am bummed about the same thing. I have said it a hundred times on here but in case you missed it,, lol,, I didn't play for almost 20 years. And just got back into it seriously about a year and a half ago. The plan was me and a couple old jamming buddies were going to start jamming regular. Well regular didn't happen and we have only got together a few times. Everyone has a busy life and it just isn't working out. There is still hope apparently but it's not coming as fast as I would like. There is nothing that compares with jamming AND creating with other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted August 22, 2013 Author Share Posted August 22, 2013 Dude,, I totally get that. I am bummed about the same thing. I have said it a hundred times on here but in case you missed it,, lol,, I didn't play for almost 20 years. And just got back into it seriously about a year and a half ago. The plan was me and a couple old jamming buddies were going to start jamming regular. Well regular didn't happen and we have only got together a few times. Everyone has a busy life and it just isn't working out. There is still hope apparently but it's not coming as fast as I would like. There is nothing that compares with jamming AND creating with other people. I understand...I too, had a playing "hiatus" of 30+ years! So, as much as I try, to "catch up," my OLD (and somewhat arthritic) fingers, just don't want to cooperate, all that well, anymore! LOL But, this "tone" change, thing...I don't really remember happening, back in the day...but, it might be because I played with other people, most of the time, and so I was constantly changing things, and giving to, and taking from other musicians? That kind of constant inspiration, and "back and forth." Who knows? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quapman Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 I hate to bring it up but I'm in the same boat so I can,, lol. Do you think maybe its your hearing as you age? Or is it good one day and not the next? If it's good one day and not the next, maybe it is as simple as Izzy said,, get a new pedal man!!!!!! lol I got this cheesy little practice amp I can dial through the presets of various sounds and tones. At low volume for a bedroom amp it's really alot of fun. Or learn a new piece? I was bored too, and I always wanted to learn Blackbird(I think you are familiar with the tune? ) Always loved that one. It's not that it's super hard to play,, but(for me),, it is super hard to remember. This aint no 145 12 bar repetition tune. I am about 45 bars into it so far that I can almost remember...lol But I tell ya,, it's really kicked up my interest in picking it up every day. And rather than worry about the tone, I am focusing on what comes next,, no time to worry about tone..lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Yup I think it comes from not playing with others much.. I ALWAYS enjoy it the very few times a year I get to do it, but as mentioned above everyone is just getting on with life, having kids or concentrating on their career and it just never seems to happen :( And I myself don't so much get bored with my sound as im not really that bothered about tone playing by myself, but more I think of being a bit stuck in a rut with what I play. When I do manage to break out and play something new and different, again I always enjoy that more and I find that im just having fun and the tone wont bother me so much. I think the only time you really have to worry about tone is when your recording or playing live.. If it were a physical thing I reckon you wouldn't hear such a dramatic change so it must be a brain thing I reckon. I also get the same thing when I was working on games and on my projects.. you just get to a point where all you are doing is looking at the mistakes rather than looking at what you've done right (which I think is natural when you have worked on the same thing for too long).. like you cant see the wood for the trees :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted August 22, 2013 Author Share Posted August 22, 2013 Thanks, quapman, and Rabs...I'm sure (at least) part of what you say, is true. As to my "aged" hearing...it seems to be fine, really. No real problems, except when people mumble, incoherently...LOL. Of course, that doesn't happen, nowadays as much, as they "text" instead of talk! Again...I'm really not sure, if it's "boredom" per se...or, what? The "tone" thing isn't so much a "worry," but more a curiosity, because of what seems to happen. Just this morning, I was cranking away, on my Epi AIUSA Sheraton, which I LOVE the tone on, normally. Then, after awhile, it seemed...I don't know...harsher, than normal! All the same settings, on both the guitar and my practice amp. I've had this same thing happen, with other guitars..and, other amps, as well. So...??? Maybe this IS no real answer...beyond what we've already discussed??? But, I appreciate ALL suggestions, information, and your sharing of similar experiences. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 I find this to be a very complex issue which has a wealth of variables at play (pun) and not just the "sometimes I sound good; othertimes I sound dull" reasoning. If, for instance, I'm in a Dr. Feelgood mood I can happily whack the Tele into the amp; set the knobs where I know it'll sound spot-on and let slip the dogs of war. Tonal Finesse was hardly the major point of Wilco's ethos. Similarly, for instance, SRV-tinged Texas-blues; Billy Gibbons' 'Eliminator'-era stuff is a pretty straightforward dial-in. I'm not saying I get them 100% but certainly 'Close enough for Rock'n'Roll'. No matter when I plug in, getting these (approx) tones is falling-off-a-log stuff. OTOH if I'm trying to play slow, clean blues - just me extemporising solo - in a more BB King/Peter Green vein I find that what might have been THE TONE yesterday will NOT work for reasons unknown today. Even if I leave everything exactly as-is from one day to the next I usually find some - and occasionally a lot of - re-thinking is required. Sometimes the solution is to plug in a different-sounding Paul; try, using the amp's tone controls only, to get that one to sound as good/close to the sound I hear in my head as possible and then go back to my #1 Lester. This 'cures' the malady in 90% of the cases and I find that the sound has been there all along. I just needed to readjust what I was hearing to hear what I was missing. But there is still that 10% which is left unresolved... P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 There is one other thing I can thing of.. it really is only a theory (and not even one ive thought about that much ;)) As you probably know a person is needed to ground a guitar.. A person also emits an electrical field (albeit a small one)... MAYBE as you get older that changes? Or how it reacts to physical work? Who knows man.. all part of the mystery that is life :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Ohh and of course... there is also one more simple explanation... I find that with listening to music, there is some music I need to be I the mood for.. Maybe its the same with playing, sometimes your mood is different so your perceptions are different.. A lot of people who are creative are right brainers and can tend to be slightly more moody .... which being musicians and guitarists most of us probably are :P :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted August 22, 2013 Author Share Posted August 22, 2013 I love it, too...when you play the same licks, as before...but, they seem to sound "different," or...as is quite common, you hear someone else play exactly the same rif, or lick...and their's always sounds "better," somehow? Why IS that?! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzoboy Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 I have basically the same type of thing happen to me with regard to ear fatigue,disorientation or whatever you could care to call it. Often I will get a great tone from an amp and make a note of the positions of all the controls or leave it as it is until the next day.When I go back to the same settings on the next day or even a week or more after,it will often sound nowhere like I had originally dialed in.I can't figure out how or why this can happen and the best that I can figure is that the original tone or subsequent tones are greatly affected by how long the amp had been running and at what volume.I'm sure that the warm up period,volumes used and temperature of the tubes etc. play a big part in the resulting tones. One other related issue that I have is when doing neck setups and intonation and after doing one or two guitars,I start going "tone deaf" and get confused with the speed of the vibrations of the overtones when checking 7th and 9th fret harmonics.If it wasn't for the tuner readings I would be lost,when not too many years ago I never had to rely on a tuner to do spot on intonation.Luckily I still am able to tune a guitar by ear once the intonation is set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 or...as is quite common, you hear someone else play exactly the same rif, or lick...and their's always sounds "better," somehow? Ahhhhh... the magic often referred to as "phrasing" - the thing that makes a player unique. Otherwise anyone could do this well, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosemarie Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Maybe it's lack of stimulation? Sometimes the creativity and interaction with other players stimulates excitement in what is being played and how it's being played. If you're just messing around with riffs, the other players (or you) feed off that. Since it's just you, it's hard to get inspired and you have no one to feed off of. Just my two cents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Happens constantly CB...sometimes from 1 day to the next.....but, it's caused me to "fish around" and get some really slamming tones cooking...then, even THAT just doesn't sound as good as....."maybe if I......" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notes_Norton Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Nope. But I do have a need to learn new songs all the time. Not because of the tone, but the need to explore something new. Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Nope.... But I do have a need to learn new songs all the time. Not because of the tone, but the need to explore something new. This is me, too. I play mostly one guitar (Carvin SH550), but once or twice a week I'll pick up another. I keep about five in the rotation, and if I don't play it, it's gone (I've gotten rid of a Strat and a Studio LP- my only ones- within the past year, and picked up a Tele and an Ibanez jazzbox; don't miss the LP or Strat). Even though I prefer the one, it never ceases to amaze me how sweet they all sound. Learning new songs and hitting those sweet notes is what keeps me coming back. I think playing new tunes helps keep your tone fresh and your ears primed, and I think you have to be happy with your own playing and use of dynamics in your phrasing. And of course, you have to like the way your equipment sounds. I think one of the main reasons I got rid of the last two guitars is because I just couldn't dial in the sound that I needed to match what I wanted it to be; what I was hearing in my head. I just couldn't match the sound I was getting with the LP and Strat with what I wanted the sound to be. The Strat was too thin and the LP wasn't creamy enough. I also think you have to listen to really good musicians playing other instruments. I learned a lot from Wayne Shorter- his phrasing and the way he slides into notes. He slides into almost every note at the beginning of each phrase. It's subtle, but it's there. Forgive me if you've heard this before. You have to phrase like you're talking and take breaths to let it all soak in. And you got to bend notes for expression, you've got to swing the rhythms, and you've got to let the vibratos sing and the pretty notes ring. One more thing. Do not sit down to play the guitar and play a lick that you always play right off the bat. Do not get trapped into that. In fact, get used to not playing anything you've played a lot unless it is a relatively new piece you're working on, or a scale you're trying to master, or a tune you once played a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 All good advice, and suggestions. "Learning new songs," is something I enjoy doing, so that's never been an issue, here. And "phrasing," and the physical apsects of playing, I'm ALWAYS working on, to improve, and find my "own" style/sound. I think one does that, naturally, almost without thinking about it, if one is truly interested, and committed, to improving, at all. I just can't (still) figure out, why this "sound" change happens. It seems, more than "boredom"=mind fatigue, or playing limitations, it's an actual precieved change, in sound/tone. But, since it happens with ALL my gear, I think it has to be my ear (fatique), more than anything else. You all are right, about mood, and some of the physical anomalies, that can contribute. But, I think (now), it must be just some kind of ear fatigue, more than anything else. Although, I would never rule out/discount plain old tonal "perception," and how that changes, with mood, rooms, venues, physical atmosphere (temps, humidity, etc.), as contributors, of varying degrees. Who knows?! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Yeah, I knew you didn't need that advice from me (maybe it'll help someone else), but I am struggling to understand this fatigue that you are experiencing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 I dunno... I guess I've never really felt that way about "tone," but then since I started on classical, perhaps I think of tone as using different technique variations rather than turning dials. Secondly, though, I think that also if one wishes to emulate another musician's tone or timing, one is almost inevitably doomed to failure since een that person will seldom really do the same thing twice. I know it's a holy grail for some, but it ain't my schtick. I don't even try. Some fingerpickin' stuff I basically do very similarly to what I was doing in '64 or '65 - on occasion more complex, always hopefully more skillfully, but conceptually unchanged. Seriously I think that although I care deeply about my "tone," since I feel that I'm doing it myself rather than mostly electronics, I think more variations will be acceptable to my ears. I do find that on occasions the angle of attack by my fingers or flatpick will change from my mood or other factors, and that affects how I sound. Or... if I've been listening to something and, kind of like with different light sources you will "see" colors differently, in different rooms or after hearing different sounds, you can "hear" the same objective reality differently. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 Yeah, I knew you didn't need that advice from me (maybe it'll help someone else), but I am struggling to understand this fatigue that you are experiencing. ME TOO, Zigzag! I guess, the best way I can describe it, is that after awhile, regardless of amp, or guitar used, the sound I hear seems to go from pleasant, to either a harshness, or almost a blend...a kind of sonic, homgonized, non-descript, generic tone. Confusing, I know...it's hard to describe. It may be one of those "You had to be there," or..."You have to experience it, your- self, to know" kind of things??? But, since it's not limited to any one combination of guitar/amp, use... I think it has to be my "ears" or my mind adapting, to the sound/tone, and in that process, losing the uniqueness of each combination. I know...It's VERY weird! But, you know how you notice things, when working at something, or (in this case) playing guitar, alone, that you don't normally notice, when playing or working with other's, because your concentration is different, and there are many more things in the "mix" of sounds, and actions, than when you're alone...without those interactions, distractions, etc. It may be, that what I'm hearing goes on all the time! Just that I don't notice it, until I'm playing alone, for an extended period. In my photography, I have to get away (post production) once in awhile, from "color correcting" because I become less able to distinguish how much to correct something, due to my mind adapting, and not "seeing" the true color, unless I go away, and then come back. It's then much more obvious, after that "break/time away," what needs to be done, and by what degree. I think it may be same, for me, sound wise? Just a guess, but it's really all I can come up with, that fits. So...??? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 Also, the thing I'm describing (maybe, Poorly?), is not "tone" in the sense of trying to perfect, or obtain any certain desireable guitar/amp "tone!" I can do that, with almost any combination I own. This is more what happens to that tone, during the couse of my playing, over an extended period of time, alone...that seems to alter, even though I dont' change anything, on either the guitar, amp...or pedal, if I'm using one/some. I don't know...it's just kind of "weird!" Maybe it IS, "just Me?!" I don't know...it's one reason I put it out there, for you all to weigh in on. And, again...I appreciate the thoughts, suggestions! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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