Fingerpickers

[quapman]

Question for all you accomplished finger pickers out there.

 

I have started focusing more on my finger picking trying to get more fluid without thinking about it.

Working a little on the Travis Pick and have just started learning Blackbird,, doesn't use the Travis pick but still fingerpicking to be done correct.

 

My question is nails of flesh?

 

I don't think my nails will take it but I have read there is ways of strengthening them and shaping them.

I realize there is no right or wrong way but there is no denying nails would be way brighter tone.

 

Is it worth the hassle of caring and sculpting your nails or is the finger tips good enough. I have looked at some old

footage and Blackbird sounds just fine when Paul plays it and it doesn't sound like he has much for nails.

 

I started growing them out and they have already broke. Not to mention they bug me cuz I'm not used to having them long.

But I could get used to it if I had to.

 

So what do you think,, nails or flesh?

I'm not interested in finger pics at all.

[surfpup]

Flesh...

 

I could never quite get used to finger picks either.

 

Oh wait, you asked for accomplished finger pickers... Never mind

[darling67]

Some years ago, I set out to teach myself how to finger-pick properly. Up 'til that point, I'd been employing a weird hybrid technique using my fingertips. But I wanted to learn to use fingerpicks, so...

 

I still alternate between the picks and my bare fingers. It depends on the song. Some songs I find much easier/sound better to use my finger tips, while others really need the added "attack" that the picks afford.

 

As for the picks themselves… after a long search for THE perfect fingerpick, I found a nickel pick with an "open" finger tip made by ProPick. They give me the pick while allowing my finger to still touch the string. Brilliant!

 

I could never use my nails, because I bite them constantly. Even if I didn't have that habit, I'd not grow them out. Would look bizarre. So, I guess I will tell you to go with your fingertips, as you are not interested in picks.

[dem00n]

Nails, its a consistent tone and flesh takes years to get that corn on it (Wes!)

 

Though its difficult to maintain nails, if you break one then you have to start over and it can be a *****. Also depends on your job, do you always need short nails? What suits your life style?

[Versatile]

Personal opinion/experience herewith...

 

I can honestly say I have done/seen/picked it all regarding fingerstyle... :blink:

 

Check out Albert Lee regarding the bright attack possible with flesh...albeit with plectrum for bass notes

 

IMO the decider is frequency of playing/gigging if nails are used...they just will not survive too many hard gigs...

 

I reluctantly started to use thumb/finger picks about a year ago and now prefer that approach

 

Using and carefully tensioning quality picks like Dunlop, ProPik, National can transform one's playing

 

V

 

[milod]

Actually that's even been a longtime question in the classical guitar community. Nails, bare flesh or - as Segovia did, something in between depending on the piece.

 

I've used fingerpicks, the steel "National" sorts, for approaching 50 years - but mostly on the 12 string, banjo and autoharp. Sometimes with a high-nut guitar with open tuning and a slide/steel of some sort.

 

Mother Maybelle did the Carter Family Scratch virtually identically in technique to how she played the autoharp, and I think it's educational to check Youtube on her technique on both.

 

In the '60s where I was it was almost perceived as a moral requirement to use fingerpicks on a steel string - but most also were strung with fairly heavy gauge strings compared to a classical guitar. I used them even on my '60s electric modded 7-string archtop - doubled "g" at an octave as with a 12-string.

 

Were I to start using the 12 string a lot, I'd use the fingerpicks and thumbpick that always have two sets in the case. Ditto the banjo and, if I had one again, the autoharp.

 

But I fingerpick almost entirely nowadays on both my electrics and flattops. Thanks to AE capability, creating volume is not a criterion for picking on 9-42 acoustic strings. Yes, you can use them and I think they sound fine if you don't claw them, but caress them with roughly classical guitar technique.

 

My right hand nails are there, but more for the same sorts of change in tone that comes with different angles of attack on the strings and different hand positioning vis a vis the bridge.

 

Again, note that I'm doing "parlor" technique with an AE, whether acoustic or electric, as opposed to playing straight acoustic without any amplification. It's a different concept.

 

Neither Mark Knopfler nor Joe Pass used fingerpicks, nor I believe did Chet, although he used a thumb pick. Never been close enough to watch Kottke, but I think he also used thumb pick and bare fingers - at least sometimes steel fingerpicks on the 12. As I recall Roger McGuin with flatpick and steel fingerpicks - which was pretty common in the '50s through the '70s.

 

Here's one of Kottke where he's doing is act and you can see bare fingers... looks like no thumb pick either.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDyRISvK4fQ

[quapman]

Flesh...

 

I could never quite get used to finger picks either.

 

Oh wait, you asked for accomplished finger pickers... Never mind

 

 

Lol,, that's ok man, I should revise that maybe,, all opinions welcome ;)

[quapman]

Some years ago, I set out to teach myself how to finger-pick properly. Up 'til that point, I'd been employing a weird hybrid technique using my fingertips. But I wanted to learn to use fingerpicks, so...

 

I still alternate between the picks and my bare fingers. It depends on the song. Some songs I find much easier/sound better to use my finger tips, while others really need the added "attack" that the picks afford.

 

As for the picks themselves… after a long search for THE perfect fingerpick, I found a nickel pick with an "open" finger tip made by ProPick. They give me the pick while allowing my finger to still touch the string. Brilliant!

 

I could never use my nails, because I bite them constantly. Even if I didn't have that habit, I'd not grow them out. Would look bizarre. So, I guess I will tell you to go with your fingertips, as you are not interested in picks.

 

 

Interesting.

Well ,, I'm not a nail biter so I'm fine with letting them grow. Nor am I concerned with how they look.

But, I am curious about the finger picks,,, I almost went and bought some but came to the conclusion that I would try them,,, hate them,,, and then leave them in a dish somewhere to collect dust until the wife threw them out.

 

Can you explain what you like about them? :)

[quapman]

Nails, its a consistent tone and flesh takes years to get that corn on it (Wes!)

 

Though its difficult to maintain nails, if you break one then you have to start over and it can be a *****. Also depends on your job, do you always need short nails? What suits your life style?

 

Cool,, pics please?

 

Do you grow your nails and do you play with just your hands?

 

I know some guitarists who only play with their hands,, never a pick.

 

I am trying to do both,, currently I use a pick ,, but am interested in using just my hands.

 

is it worth grooming nails????????????????

 

I would love to hear your experience with growing your nails.

[jaxson50]

Mostly I use flesh, but I also play around with finger picks, the ones I like the best are the Alaska piks http://www.alaskapik.com/order.php

But I also use a trick that many country pickers use, take a thumb pick, and clip the tip down very short, and shape the point so it is longer one side, like the Prudential building, or like Gibralter Rock,,,,I don't know what shape you call it, but I like it longer at the edge closest to the thumbnail.Trim the length as long as you like, I prefer short and I like heavy thumb picks so I can dig in hard with it or lightly strum. Buy a bunch of them and experiment till you find the shape and length that feels right. Some pickers like round tips, the shape of a thumb nail...Also when playing a 12 string, try plucking with three finger tips pulling simultaneously, develope a even touch, you will get a piano like sound, a chopping sound you can't duplicate strumming, syncopating with the thumb playing bass notes....mix the three finger pulls with a banjo like roll, and mostly, enjoy...

[quapman]

Personal opinion/experience herewith...

 

I can honestly say I have done/seen/picked it all regarding fingerstyle... :blink:

 

Check out Albert Lee regarding the bright attack possible with flesh...albeit with plectrum for bass notes

 

IMO the decider is frequency of playing/gigging if nails are used...they just will not survive too many hard gigs...

 

I reluctantly started to use thumb/finger picks about a year ago and now prefer that approach

 

Using and carefully tensioning quality picks like Dunlop, ProPik, National can transform one's playing

 

V

 

 

 

Really? You've "done/seen/picked" it all regarding fingerstyle?

 

So you recommend the finger picks?

 

Please,, do tell why? And why did you reluctantly change?

[quapman]

Actually that's even been a longtime question in the classical guitar community. Nails, bare flesh or - as Segovia did, something in between depending on the piece.

 

 

 

Please,, do tell,, I am very interested in the "something in between".

 

That intrigues me.

[quapman]

Mostly I use flesh, but I also play around with finger picks, the ones I like the best are the Alaska piks http://www.alaskapik.com/order.php But I also use a trick that many country pickers use, take a thumb pick, and clip the tip down very short, and shape the point so it is longer one side, like the Prudential building, or like Gibralter Rock,,,,I don't know what shape you call it, but I like it longer at the edge closest to the thumbnail.Trim the length as long as you like, I prefer short and I like heavy thumb picks so I can dig in hard with it or lightly strum. Buy a bunch of them and experiment till you find the shape and length that feels right. Some pickers like round tips, the shape of a thumb nail...Also when playing a 12 string, try plucking with three finger tips pulling simultaneously, develope a even touch, you will get a piano like sound, a chopping sound you can't duplicate strumming, syncopating with the thumb playing bass notes....mix the three finger pulls with a banjo like roll, and mostly, enjoy...

 

That's cool,, but I don't wanna use pics,,

Got any useful techniques like that for flesh picking?

 

Dude,,,I"m not country,, and I don't really wanna use finger picks.

[LHW]

Flesh for me. I tried nails once, and it was the equivalent of nails on a chalkboard -- just couldn't stand the feel of it. I toyed with the slip-on finger picks themselves, once, but didn't like those either.

 

I know several guys that use their nails. To keep them hard, they apply clear nail polish to each nail on a regular basis.

[Versatile]

Really? You've "done/seen/picked" it all regarding fingerstyle?

 

So you recommend the finger picks?

 

Please,, do tell why? And why did you reluctantly change?

 

My preference for interesting chord work has always been fingerstyle (nails) from classical playing on nylon strung acoustics

 

Steadily moving onto steel strung acoustics and electrics, retaining the nail technique as far as possible...and sometimes plectrum+fingers for more bass attack

 

The decider recently has been from doing more 12 string fingerstyle work where the thumb and finger nails wear down...flesh not really working for me...

 

A web-search and purchase of various sizes and gauges of thumb and finger picks was worthwhile in finding comfortable and usable options...there are metal and plastic alternatives each having their strengths...

 

V

 

[badbluesplayer]

I've tried most everything. I kind of take Milod's approach, where I'm using the flesh of my fingertips but controlling the attack by changing the angle of my fingertips to add more or less nail behind the flesh. You do this by making your fingers like you're going to scrape your nails on a blackboard. By flexing the last knuckle.

 

I've tried to get my nails just long enough so I can also use just the nails on my fingers - like for slide. This is the hardest thing for me.

 

I also use hybrid picking a little, and I use a thumbpick a lot for acoustic playing.

 

The best thing I ever learned was how to use a flatpick and then stash it under my index finger for fingerpicking and then whip it back out quickly to do flatpicking. I use the Brian Setzer way of doing it. This is one of the coolest things I've learned and it has allowed my to be able to transition in and out of fingerpicking seamlessly.

 

Like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK-s0b0ULVg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck6sGWn99jQ

[Hall]

50/50

[Cougar]

Flesh...

 

I could never quite get used to finger picks either.

 

Oh wait, you asked for accomplished finger pickers... Never mind

 

Same, in all respects.

[quapman]

Lot's of good stuff. Thanks everyone.

 

I think I"m going to give the nails a go and try the clear polish for strength.

But I don't think I will grow them too long. Just enough to be able to use them as Milod and BBP have said using angles of attack for desired tones.

 

BBP the Setzer videos are really interesting. I can see how that would be useful.

I think I might work on that as well but I have become somewhat dependent on my index finger

now. Setzer makes it look pretty easy. He's so damn good.

[milod]

"Classical" guitar made a lotta changes around the time that gut strings were replaced by the more reliable nylon strings, but even before, there were questions of "attack" by one's fingers.

 

First, consider there are two types of strokes usually taught in classical guitar, the "rest stroke," in which the finger brushes a string and comes to rest on the next string, and the "free stroke" in which the finger brushes the string and passes it without touching the next string.

 

In both cases, the joint between the fingertip/nail is relatively loose, depending on a number of factors. Note the term "brush."

 

The Carter Family "Scratch" with thumb and steel fingerpicks was, IMHO, likely something of an adaptation of playing autoharp, where you're "scratching past" strings with either the thumb or fingerpick-equipped fingers. It's not "picking" per se with the fingers, but "brushing" almost more as a loose-handed flamenco or bare finger manouche rhythm playing.

 

Arguments for years in classical guitar were over whether bare fingers or nails were more appropriate. It appears that Segovia was among the better voices calling for a combination, with relatively short nails - roughly equal to the level of the fingertip itself - that would allow varying degrees of bare finger or nail depending on the desired attack.

 

Regardless, the big contrary motion to be concerned about is "clawing" the strings - in effect, getting the fingertip/nail at an angle and strength so that the string is virtually plucked at various "upward" angles that slows technique, messes with the tone and all sorts of nasty consequences.

 

Fingerpicks have a nasty quality of making that "clawing" motion easier to get away with unless it's done in an manner that allows what amounts to the classical guitarist's "free stroke." It's kinda like the way an oarsman sweeps through the water rather than digging into it.

 

As for nail strength, when I was starting, guys would use all sorts of concoctions ranging from a product called "hard as nails" to clear nail polish to even basically gluing on paper to the nail in attempts to strengthen it. I quit doing that within a year or two of playing on grounds that it seemed like just plain extra work that didn't really "work." The problem was poor technique and/or poor diet that left some pickers weak nails, IMHO, plus also a lack of "polishing" the nail absolutely smooth - and that's done rather easily by normal nail clipping, gentle filing and then "buffing" by such as just moving the nails right and left on a typical sheet of paper.

 

Again, IMHO fingerpicks are fine when playing acoustically in venues where there's no real amplification and "volume" is required to play with other instruments - but a "classical guitar" approach likely will better suit most "fingerpicking" needs on electric and/or AE guitars.

 

At any rate, that's the pathway I've followed.

 

m

[zigzag]

Fingers (half flesh, half nail) for rhythm parts and chord melodies, picks for lead, and picks and fingers for double and triple stops while playing lead. I could never get used to finger picks, either.

[jaxson50]

1377319904[/url]' post='1415860']

That's cool,, but I don't wanna use pics,,

Got any useful techniques like that for flesh picking?

 

Dude,,,I"m not country,, and I don't really wanna use finger picks.

 

I usually do not use picks, sometimes the thumb pick, but do not dismiss the Alaska Pik out of hand, they feel just like your own fingernails and you can trim them down as low as you like.No matter which you do, the same exercise helps. You will have to develop your right hand dexterity to a greater level, part of that is to feel the strings, IMO that is why a finger picker would prefer flesh over picks. Ether way, practice finger rolls, pull offs, plucks, and strums they are all part of the arsenal. Check out Acoustic Guitar Magazine online, look up their lessons, they will help a lot.

[jaxson50]

A couple of links you may find helpful...

 

 

 

 

[jaxson50]

 

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1-RfYvCgWE8&feature=related

[quapman]

"Classical" guitar made a lotta changes around the time that gut strings were replaced by the more reliable nylon strings, but even before, there were questions of "attack" by one's fingers.

 

First, consider there are two types of strokes usually taught in classical guitar, the "rest stroke," in which the finger brushes a string and comes to rest on the next string, and the "free stroke" in which the finger brushes the string and passes it without touching the next string.

 

In both cases, the joint between the fingertip/nail is relatively loose, depending on a number of factors. Note the term "brush."

 

The Carter Family "Scratch" with thumb and steel fingerpicks was, IMHO, likely something of an adaptation of playing autoharp, where you're "scratching past" strings with either the thumb or fingerpick-equipped fingers. It's not "picking" per se with the fingers, but "brushing" almost more as a loose-handed flamenco or bare finger manouche rhythm playing.

 

Arguments for years in classical guitar were over whether bare fingers or nails were more appropriate. It appears that Segovia was among the better voices calling for a combination, with relatively short nails - roughly equal to the level of the fingertip itself - that would allow varying degrees of bare finger or nail depending on the desired attack.

 

Regardless, the big contrary motion to be concerned about is "clawing" the strings - in effect, getting the fingertip/nail at an angle and strength so that the string is virtually plucked at various "upward" angles that slows technique, messes with the tone and all sorts of nasty consequences.

 

Fingerpicks have a nasty quality of making that "clawing" motion easier to get away with unless it's done in an manner that allows what amounts to the classical guitarist's "free stroke." It's kinda like the way an oarsman sweeps through the water rather than digging into it.

 

As for nail strength, when I was starting, guys would use all sorts of concoctions ranging from a product called "hard as nails" to clear nail polish to even basically gluing on paper to the nail in attempts to strengthen it. I quit doing that within a year or two of playing on grounds that it seemed like just plain extra work that didn't really "work." The problem was poor technique and/or poor diet that left some pickers weak nails, IMHO, plus also a lack of "polishing" the nail absolutely smooth - and that's done rather easily by normal nail clipping, gentle filing and then "buffing" by such as just moving the nails right and left on a typical sheet of paper.

 

Again, IMHO fingerpicks are fine when playing acoustically in venues where there's no real amplification and "volume" is required to play with other instruments - but a "classical guitar" approach likely will better suit most "fingerpicking" needs on electric and/or AE guitars.

 

At any rate, that's the pathway I've followed.

 

m

 

 

Old dude,, I think this is brilliant.

( and I say old dude in a very endearing way... ;) )

 

This makes me wish I had some classical training background because I wish I knew how

to play a "rest stroke" and a "free stroke" properly.

That is some very cool stuff I know nothing about.

 

But I am quite interested in what you mention about Segovia.

What would you consider, or how would you gauge the length on ones fingernails relative to

Segovia's "relatively short nails"?

 

When you say the length should be "roughly equal to the level of the fingertip itself" are you looking at the finger tips from the top? (back of the hand) or bottom, (palm of the hand).

 

If you turn your palm to your face would you see the nails? or are you holding your and out in front of you?

 

 

So either way,, I get that this is a personal preference, but am just looking for a benchmark.

 

Thanks M.