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unique Les Paul


Old TJ

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Hello from Central Kansas, cutting edge of civilization, last bastion of prairie dogs where we still pee outside. I have a '61 model Les Paul (S/N 26544), which I bought from a friend in late '62 -- think he had it about 6 mo. This guitar has the sideways tremolo, P90 pickup and the original stop tailpiece is used for the bridge (no string grooves). This is the way it came from the factory. Was it an experiment, a one-off, or something else -- I've never seen another like it.

Just looking for info.

 

It's not a collector's item -- it's been to Vietnam and a whole lot of other places and don't know how many practices & sessions. A neck dot is missing, pickguard is chipped on some corners, buckle rash, 4 screws in the P90 are showing rust (the other two are galvanized button head screws as replacements for 2 borrowed and used to repair a weapon in '68. A bit of neck and fingerboard wear and quite faded. However, neck and all are good and all electronics work well.

I'll note that with the slick topped bridge, it has more sustain than almost any other guitar I've played -- issue is that the tailpiece will move on the slots and you need to push it back into place occasionally. As such, it's not for sale, just looking for info.

 

Thanks,

 

Old TJ

post-58835-055453500 1378150706_thumb.jpg

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Hello and welcome here, Old TJ.

 

Never before I saw a Les Paul SG like yours. So I hope there will be others to help you identify it - at least it is very probable. Think you have a very rare item in any case since every of the few guitars with an SG shape and a single P90 pickup I ever saw had a hardtail and a Tune-O-Matic bridge. The only common on your guitar could be the colour to my eyes.

 

Keep your baby in a safe and comfortable environment - I think it is worth it.

 

Cheers,

 

capmaster

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1378173718[/url]' post='1420153']

Nice guitar! Love the unique look. Post more pics.

 

That guitar looks like it's one of the first generation of Les Paul juniors that was shaped like an SG. It looks like somebody added the vibrato after-the-fact because it doesn't even seem to fit on the guitar. My guess is that guitar came stock from the factory with only the tailpiece. It was probably never designed to work with a trem and that's why you are having trouble with it slipping. I would be interested to see what the folks at Gibson say about it.

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The vibrato is almost certainly non-original and would have been fitted by a previous owner - perhaps the person from whom your friend bought the guitar in early '62?

It wouldn't have been fitted by Gibson at the factory as it wouldn't work properly with the combined stop-bar bridge/tailpiece unit - as you have noticed!

 

That style of sideways-action trem was standard-fitment for the Standard and Custom Les Paul/SG models and as yours is nickel-finish it would have been for/from a Standard.

 

Here's a snap from the '61 Gibson catalogue showing the optional trem for the Junior and Special etc. models.

Note that all four of the models listed in the picture had the same combination bridge/tailpiece as yours.

 

Trem001_zpsf48a2e10.jpg

 

P.

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.

It's a LesPaul "SG" Junior - a regular production guitar with the option vibrato.

 

From Guitar HQ - http://www.guitarhq.com/5858jr.jpg . . . . . . . . (You should contact them, they don't have a pic of this pointed horn model.)

Mid 1958 Gibson "Les Paul SG" Junior guitar specs:

body style change to symmetrical rounded double cutaways, thick slab mahogany body, etc ....

5858jr.jpg

 

1961 Les Paul (also known as "SG") Junior specs:

body style change to symmetrical pointed double cutaways, thin mahogany body with beveled edges, cherry red finish, vibrato optional. The peghead still says "Les Paul", but often this body style is refered to as the "SG" body style. Even though it still says "Les Paul" on the peghead, I personally call this a "SG Junior". [Also: 1 soapbar P-90 pickup with black cover, two knobs, stud tailpiece/bridge combo with the string looping over the bridge, dot fingerboard inlays, 24.75" scale, single ply black pickguard]

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....a regular production guitar with the option vibrato.

 

1961 Les Paul (also known as "SG") Junior specs:... vibrato optional....

Agreed, BK, but that wasn't the model of vibrato which was the option. See post #7...

 

[smile]

 

P.

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Problem is, is it from The Nam? Lots of guitars came back from there that should have been left there.

 

Do you know where your friend got it?

 

My friend bought it in wichita, KS I think -- and never learned to play it so I bought it from him -- maybe 6 mo after he got it. FYI, I took it to VN with me, and many other places. They wouldn't let me bring an amp so I mostly played it thru the amplifier stages of am AM superhet radio -- Not very loud, but sounded great. It's in the original condition as purchased. He showed it to me the day he bought it.

 

I've had it and played it for about 50 years, and am well aware of what it is except for the vibrato/tailpiece bridge setup.

 

Thanks for replying

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Agreed, BK, but that wasn't the model of vibrato which was the option. See post #7...

 

Yes I did catch that. But having owned many Gibsons, I've found Gibson is inconsistent - I think you'd agree on that. I've seen specimens with parts I've questioned only to find out later the production guys used this or that part because they had extras lying around. I've also seen changes made in the middle of a production run (you know the old caveat: "Specs or parts may change without notice.") At any rate, I wouldn't dismiss that vibrato as factory just because an advert pictured a different one. Having said all that, I do agree, it possibly might be a mod, as I've just noticed the vibrato/lyre hangs over the butt-end of the body.

 

 

.

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Shoot us an email at service@gibson.com with pictures and we'll be happy to look into it.

 

 

Appreciate all of the responses. I'll take pics with a good camera next time and post several. As nearly as I can tell from the S/N this guitar was made in late Oct. or early Nov. in 1961.

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1378258252[/url]' post='1420787']

Appreciate all of the responses. I'll take pics with a good camera next time and post several. As nearly as I can tell from the S/N this guitar was made in late Oct. or early Nov. in 1961.

 

Nobody doubts the age, we're only questioning whether that vibrato was put on at the factory. None of us has ever seen one used on that model, and many of us are really old rolleyes.gif

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Nobody doubts the age, we're only questioning whether that vibrato was put on at the factory. None of us has ever seen one used on that model, and many of us are really old rolleyes.gif

"Hey! I resemble that remark!" as the saying goes...

 

If it was bought new by your friend, Old TJ (and the timeline suggests that's quite likely), and he didn't install the Vibrola himself then I'm leaning towards cjsinla's idea (post #13) that it might have been added by the store.

But even then it's a curious move just in terms of price. The Junior was the least expensive guitar in the Les Paul range at $147.50. The Custom, by contrast, was a whopping $425.00.

Why buy the cheapest guitar but then put on a vibrato that would have been roughly double the price of the one specifically made for the Junior?

 

One guess is the buyer really, really wanted a vibrato but the store only had the more expensive item in stock?

The model as fitted is certainly much more commonly to be found than the 'correct' style so might that be one explanation?

 

Is your friend still alive to clear things up, Old TJ? I'm very curious to know the story!

 

P.

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Nobody doubts the age, we're only questioning whether that vibrato was put on at the factory. None of us has ever seen one used on that model, and many of us are really old rolleyes.gif

To have seen something is one thing, another thing is to remember it... [biggrin] ... at least at my age O:)

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"Hey! I resemble that remark!" as the saying goes...

 

If it was bought new by your friend, Old TJ (and the timeline suggests that's quite likely), and he didn't install the Vibrola himself then I'm leaning towards cjsinla's idea (post #13) that it might have been added by the store.

But even then it's a curious move just in terms of price. The Junior was the least expensive guitar in the Les Paul range at $147.50. The Custom, by contrast, was a whopping $425.00.

Why buy the cheapest guitar but then put on a vibrato that would have been roughly double the price of the one specifically made for the Junior?

 

One guess is the buyer really, really wanted a vibrato but the store only had the more expensive item in stock?

The model as fitted is certainly much more commonly to be found than the 'correct' style so might that be one explanation?

 

Is your friend still alive to clear things up, Old TJ? I'm very curious to know the story!

 

P.

 

No, He's no longer with us, was killed in a M/C accident about 12 yrs ago. Actually, I hadn't seen him more than a couple of times since '65, and that was quite a while back. I hadn't really thought much about the configuration of my guitar until another SG player asked me about it a couple of years ago at a jam session -- just now inquiring about it. As you propose, I also suspect it was put on by the store owner, but will send all info I have to the Gibson folks. I'm 66 and have 3 grandsons who are learning to play [17, 19, & 20]. The first one who learns scales well enough to stand in and pick up melodies by ear will likely have it given to him.

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