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SJ "new vintage" anyone?

Lefty Guy

By Lefty Guy
in Gibson Acoustic

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Phelonious Ponk

Phelonious Ponk

Posted
Posted

There's a near mint pre-owned "new vintage" Southern Jumbo fs at Wildwood. Looks a decent deal & they are special guitars.

 

http://www.wildwoodguitars.com/products/10721016.php?CategoryID=432&n=14

 

Market value is market value. With that said, while I won't do it, I sort of understand paying a premium for an authentic vintage reproduction. This doesn't appear to be that. It's a hybrid of vintage SJ features and "other." My '03 OJ is all that and an Adirondack top and as much as I love it, if I thought I could get 3 grand for it, it might be for sale. I've played quite a few brand new Gibson standard series guitars lately. They're good. Very good. Good enough to really make you look askance at $3k for a used guitar, even if it was vintage authentic. Sorry to be negative, but this stuff is for collectors. Used, it's about $1500 too much for a player.

 

P

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Fullmental Alpinist

Fullmental Alpinist

Posted
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Not a clue, Marlin. Isn't that what TVs are supposed to be? Modeled directly after a vintage guitar down to the finest details?

 

P

 

Nope, not at all. What made you think that?

 

-- Bob R

 

"Plenty of traditionalists still seek a new instrument constructed exactly like the great originals of the 1930s, '40s, '50s, and '60s. Welcome the True Vintage series, comprising the SJ-200, J-185, J-45, Southern Jumbo, and Hummingbird."

 

Gibson: MC vs TV

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bayoubengal1954

bayoubengal1954

Posted
Posted

Market value is market value. With that said, while I won't do it, I sort of understand paying a premium for an authentic vintage reproduction. This doesn't appear to be that. It's a hybrid of vintage SJ features and "other." My '03 OJ is all that and an Adirondack top and as much as I love it, if I thought I could get 3 grand for it, it might be for sale. I've played quite a few brand new Gibson standard series guitars lately. They're good. Very good. Good enough to really make you look askance at $3k for a used guitar, even if it was vintage authentic. Sorry to be negative, but this stuff is for collectors. Used, it's about $1500 too much for a player.

 

P

Hey Everyone! I'm still a babe in the woods regarding Gibson Acoustics. This is called "New Vintage" made for Wildwood Guitars as opposed to "True Vintage". I know some differences were discussed in post dated August 18th. (My link Most of the TVs have Adi tops and these NVs have Sitka, correct? They are asking around $2400 for this one, but Phelonious Ponk was referring to a figure of $3000 as being too much (which I agree). Have there been other used NVs for sale at the $3000 figure? Just curious. So I guess one would have to see what a mint condition 2011 TV Southern Jumbo would go for as a comparison. Any ideas? Please excuse if my questions seem clueless.

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capmaster

capmaster

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New vintage, old vintage true vintage, vintage vintage.....will it never end???

No, it will never end unless it will be clarified, even if the sales guys may grumble. Remember that many years from now the nowadays contemporary spec guitars will be vintage - real, genuine, true, however you may call this. Everything else is a VINTAGE REISSUE in my opinion, they just decided to drop the reissue for marketing reasons.

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rar

rar

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Posted

Something like that.

I thought anyone smart enough to play a Gibson would be smart enough not to pay any attention to the drivel produced by Gibson's infamous Marketing Department. :)

 

A. This is what's known legally as "puffery". It is supposed that people can recognize it for what it is, and know that it is not to be taken seriously.

 

B. It says that they are "constructed exactly the same". Taken at face value, that's clearly absurd -- everyone knows there's extensive use of tools that didn't exist even 20 years ago -- so some less than literal interpretation is obviously necessary. But there just is no reasonable interpretation of that phrase that suggests the specs are the same as any particular vintage model. The examples given illustrate that pretty clearly: lots of vague assertions about bracing being all nice and vintage-y,conspicuous absence of a statement that the bracing is the same as any specific vintage J-45 or SJ.

 

-- Bob R

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Fullmental Alpinist

Fullmental Alpinist

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B. It says that they are "constructed exactly the same". Taken at face value, that's clearly absurd ....But there just is no reasonable interpretation of that phrase that suggests the specs are the same as any particular vintage model.

-- Bob R

 

"The new J-45 True Vintage—hand-made by Gibson Acoustic in Bozeman, Montana—offers the build, materials, looks, and tone of this legendary guitar as it was the day it was first introduced in 1942. This new model stays true to the original in every way....

 

Gibson: J-45 TV

 

Nothing vague about the claim to be a clone of the original 1942 model. Whether it's true or not, now that's another story.

 

FMA

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Mojorule

Mojorule

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If you want really specific claims in your puffery, then this is the winning entry, from the Gibson website:

 

'Woody Guthrie SJ

 

Woody Guthrie is an American icon, and the original Americana artist—a folk singer who spoke for an entire country when he penned his most famous work, “This Land Is Your Land,” in 1940. In tribute, Gibson proudly presents the Woody Guthrie SJ acoustic guitar—a painstaking and faithful recreation of Woody’s beloved 1945 Southern Jumbo. The idea was conceived in 2002 when his son Arlo—a folk legend in his own right—visited the builders at Gibson Acoustic in Montana. That visit resulted in the eventual replication of his favorite guitar right down to an aged-like vintage replica finish. '

 

I have it on good authority from Don Ruffato that the Woody model is a J45 Standard with a different finish, a different logo, different tuners and SJ inlays. Not only that, JT has deduced that Woody Guthrie's atual SJ was a 1943 and with back and/or sides made of rosewood. So it is highly unlikely that the production model is a replication of the original iconic instrument, let alone a painstaking and faithful recreation of it.

 

Did I buy the story? No. Did I buy the guitar? Yes. It's great, even with 30-month-old strings.

 

And for Capmaster, the following from e-bay: '25 years old so can be considered vintage now, this is one of the finest telecasters I’ve seen and is completely unmarked and absolutely original - never been modified or tampered with and has barely been gigged.'

 

Follow the link. It's a 1988 Tele which is already very similar to current models - most notably in number of frets and modern bridge style. But, clearly something magical occurs when a guitar reaches the age of 25...

 

Vintage Telecaster Mon Cul

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Phelonious Ponk

Phelonious Ponk

Posted
Posted

Hey Everyone! I'm still a babe in the woods regarding Gibson Acoustics. This is called "New Vintage" made for Wildwood Guitars as opposed to "True Vintage". I know some differences were discussed in post dated August 18th. (My link Most of the TVs have Adi tops and these NVs have Sitka, correct? They are asking around $2400 for this one, but Phelonious Ponk was referring to a figure of $3000 as being too much (which I agree). Have there been other used NVs for sale at the $3000 figure? Just curious. So I guess one would have to see what a mint condition 2011 TV Southern Jumbo would go for as a comparison. Any ideas? Please excuse if my questions seem clueless.

 

Hmmmm...woulda swore that thing said $2999 when I first looked, not $2399. Still too much, IMHO. I can get a great used standard for $1500.

 

P

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Phelonious Ponk

Phelonious Ponk

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I thought anyone smart enough to play a Gibson would be smart enough not to pay any attention to the drivel produced by Gibson's infamous Marketing Department. :)

 

A. This is what's known legally as "puffery". It is supposed that people can recognize it for what it is, and know that it is not to be taken seriously.

 

B. It says that they are "constructed exactly the same". Taken at face value, that's clearly absurd -- everyone knows there's extensive use of tools that didn't exist even 20 years ago -- so some less than literal interpretation is obviously necessary. But there just is no reasonable interpretation of that phrase that suggests the specs are the same as any particular vintage model. The examples given illustrate that pretty clearly: lots of vague assertions about bracing being all nice and vintage-y,conspicuous absence of a statement that the bracing is the same as any specific vintage J-45 or SJ.

 

-- Bob R

I spent most of my career in advertising, so I get puffery, but when the agency copywriter either gets carried away or doesn't get it and writes something very specifically inaccurate, someone at the client company is supposed to reel him in. False advertising is actually illegal, but ethical companies are supposed to stop it long before it gets to that point

 

P

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Dave F

Dave F

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I agree on your great used price but I personally do not mind paying extra for the hide glue and aging effects of the trim, nut and saddle. If new, I do not mind paying extra for being brand new with the Gibson warranty. It all depends what's important to you. In the end, it's the fingers on the guitar that's going to make the biggest difference. I wish I could buy some new old vintage ones

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