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Dark Fire Gibson We Demand Answers


wardmk1976

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I just got off of the line with 1800-4-gibson and was informed they have no idea when the rip will be released, or if and when an owners manual will be available. After probing, I was informed this was the CEO idea, and wanted Dark Fire Users to use the forum as a resource, and the guitar is entirely experimental. I asked why was the guitar released without the necessities, and was informed the CEO of the company wanted it this way and that is the way it is. I was even told that customer service hasn't even been allowed suitable time to work with the guitar to help us, and this was all the CEO's doing.

 

My question is why will we gibson dark fire owners allow this to fly we all spent $3500 for this guitar, and we haven't got delivered to us what was promised

 

was told I needed to appeal this to the forums and the CEO might change his mind if enough of us have the same concerns and issues. So how many of you are with me?

 

Lets force his hand to do right by us the customer cause after all without the customers Gibson wouldn't exist.

 

Please post your replies below if you echo the same sentiments

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I hear you :-&

 

 

But I suspect all the members of the "Dark Fire development team" are under the gun to deliver a functional bug free product, as promised. No doubt. There is a lot of technology in this guitar package, and nothing "off the shelf".

 

This is not unlike living in 1903 , and being among the first to line up to buy an Airplane.

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But I suspect all the members of the "Dark Fire development team" are under the gun to deliver a functional bug free product' date=' as promised. No doubt. There is a lot of technology in this guitar package, and nothing "off the shelf".

 

True, but Gibson has a name to look after. They should test it and test it and test it and test and perhaps delay it (but the guys want to deliver it next to holydays - sales-wise) if they have to, but deliver a Gibson-standard product.

 

There is a lot of development going on and time could tell that some improvements introduced with DF will be groundbreaking. But they can't put their name on the line like that.

 

The brand is beyond anyone who might be working at Gibson. They should know that by now.

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True' date=' but Gibson has a name to look after. They should test it and test it and test it and test and perhaps delay it (but the guys want to deliver it next to holydays - sales-wise) if they have to, but deliver a Gibson-standard product.

 

There is a lot of development going on and time could tell that some improvements introduced with DF will be groundbreaking. But they can't put their name on the line like that.

 

The brand is beyond anyone who might be working at Gibson. They should know that by now.[/quote']

 

That's what I just dont get. Even if we are Beta team ,which doesn't worry me particularilly, why not tell us what its SUPPOSED to do so we can test it for them?

As you say,they DO have a name to protect and they are looking pretty silly right now :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3136903288_d58df18f4b_o.jpg

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I'm appalled at the lack of information and minuscule delivery of official documents from Gibson concerning the Dark Fire. I bought my first Gibson (ever) last year at the release of the Robot and I have played the _ _ _ _ out of it. I gig 3-4 times a month out live and practice daily. The MCK knob stopped working 2 weeks before the warranty ran out and I quickly sent the Robot back to Nashville for repair. I received the guitar back within 2 weeks without explanation as to what was wrong and/or why it happened. Still, I put my money down and bought the new Robot anticipating a better experience and better build quality. I'm reading everyone’s posts and I'm about ready to send the DF back and sell my first Robot and go back to playing my Tom Anderson's & Fenders. I'm a professional gigging guitarist with a healthy collection of guitars and amplifiers and I have better things to do than be the guinea pig for Gibson. If this is what “The Gibson Experience” is all about, then I the made right choice by not playing Gibson’s for the first 50 years of my life. Pat 505-270-9159. let’s see if the CEO calls me and starts acting like a businessman that wants to retain a new customer.

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I dont know about the "Gibson Name" to protect.

 

I'm 53 and I've lived through many subpar Gibson product releases. (Sonex, Firebrand ) , I'm amazed this Dark Fire project team of Gibson, Tronical, Echo Audio, Ableton, Native instruments could work together - because typically Gibson sees a technology by a third party company, buys the company, then kills it. (Opcode, )

http://www.allbusiness.com/retail-trade/miscellaneous-retail-retail-stores-not/4628851-1.html

 

After Gibson sent pink slips to the "brain trust" at Opcode,, those same engineers were hired by Apple and they ended up developing Core Audio and MIDi technology into OSX. So thank you Gibson.

 

Then there's GIMIC, MAGIC - Its 10 years old, hundreds of thousands invested, on paper it should have been a rival to Cobranet. - but no takers other than the stillborn Digital LP

http://www.gibson.com/en%2Dus/Divisions/Audio/MaGIC/SPECIFICATIONS/

 

 

After playing a Dark Fire, my feeling is that The RIP + Software Bundle = profit. its also more profitable to paint the Dark fire (everywhere but the maple Top) with the worn brown orange peel LP studio finish. There is no hand polished lacquer neck, instead we get the PowerTune II stepper motor Tuners , Piezo output and multiplexed Hex output over TRS, and RIP box.

 

Its true the Dark Fire retail of $3500 USD is too high for some, but compared to many other Gibsons with equal flame maple tops, this is cheap.

 

Basically the Dark Fire shares the same CNC PU and Top route as a Les Paul BFG, with the same chambered body( to lighten the load), worn brown paint finish (to move $ funds towards the Tronical stuff), latest 2008 LP standard Neck profile ( to use the same PLEK process in production), and add all the Tronical goodies. CAN Bus Bluetooth ready Powertune II. MCK, etc.

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/divisions/gibson%20usa/products/lespaul/gary-moore-bfg/

We are basically paying $1K for the RIP + Software.

 

 

And I will say - the Dark Fire in bone stock passive mode ROCKS !!

 

If all the tronical goodies break down at a gig - just push down the MCK and use it as a damn fine sounding Les Paul. Next year when a Line 6 Variax II strat clone with mag PU option arrives , the Dark Fire will still out gun it sonically shooting straight into your boutique amp of choice.

 

This is perhaps the reason the CEO at Gibson said "Ship it!" figuring that most remaining bugs will be fixed via downloadable firmware updates. And shipping RIP separately slows the Ebay scalpers down - since Gibson will not honor an Ebay Paypal receipt for the RIP box rebate. And there's that looming NAMM show Jan. 18th, where the competition will make product announcements to distract buyers.

 

The variable quality of the MCK pot, and typical % shipping damage, AND LACK OF AN OWNERS MANUAL are the only fly on the ointment here. But Gibson customer service was very helpful getting me an RMA and my Dark Fire is currently on a Fedex truck to Nashville for repairs.

 

Though I may get the RIP box before i get my axe back from service.

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I dont know about the "Gibson Name" to protect.

 

I'm 53 and I've lived through many subpar Gibson product releases. (Sonex' date=' Firebrand ) , I'm amazed this Dark Fire project team of Gibson, Tronical, Echo Audio, Ableton, Native instruments could work together - because typically Gibson sees a technology by a third party company, buys the company, then kills it. (Opcode, )

http://www.allbusiness.com/retail-trade/miscellaneous-retail-retail-stores-not/4628851-1.html

 

After Gibson sent pink slips to the "brain trust" at Opcode,, those same engineers were hired by Apple and they ended up developing Core Audio and MIDi technology into OSX. So thank you Gibson.[/quote']

 

I hear you, man. I did not know about all that stuff. I think you are quite used to that stuff - what is kind of sad.

I think I have a tendency for delusion, as I look with too much respect to some people or some brands - I'm talking about Fender and Gibson here.

 

When I think about how those two brands changed the history and what they mean to me... it makes me sad when I find Humbuckers holes in my 60 years comemorative american diamond strat, or the lots of ridiculous issues I have with my Gibson CUSTOM SHOP.

 

Really, I can't have it.

 

I STILL think they should stand for the name they have. If not the name, then be something else. The customers, the history, the employees, the creators... I don't know.

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MR CEO I would like to know what the quid por quo is for being your beta testers. Are you going to give us an incentive or screw us by making us wait for something that should have shipped with the product in the first place thats just poor business to sell a product after all the hype tell us what it can do and not give us instructional manual so we can know but rather tell us to go to the forms and we get trickles of information

 

Thats just wrong perhaps you should give us a a rebate or something like comping us for our wasted time

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How Ironical!

 

When Ferrari (Enzo FXX) or Porsche (Carrera GT) or Mercedes (SLR Stirling Moss) or Lamborghini (640 Reventon) or Bugatti (Veyron Faubourg by Hermes) repurpose standard products at twice the premium price, they do it by throwing in extra features and bling bling, but they do deliver a finalized working product.

 

When software manufacturers launch a beta test of a program, it usually is cost free to beta users, it is made prior to the release and sometime they even do get discounts on release version and free stuff.

 

Now what Gibson is doing is pretty much a mixture of both which is getting customers to act as beta tester for luxury goods acquired at premium price (granted you can buy yourself 714 DFs for the price of the Bugatti Faubourg, but still)!

 

And the best bit is now, customers (us!) are whining to receive, and pay, for their luxury un-finalized beta product, so why should Gibson bother?

 

Well yes in an ideal world, DF should be in time AND perfect, but keeping with my automotive analogy, you would probably wait more than a year for getting the German car you order now, so...

 

Mr CEO, DF was announced for December 15, DF is a luxury technology hardware product, I'd rather not have Gibson go the Microsoft way and I believe delivering rock solid quality product in time with all accessories and user manual, as we got to expect from the announcements, would be much much much better in terms of corporate image and customer satisfaction, for sure.

 

Personally I can wait, even if UM and RIP do come at a later stage, but when ready, thanks for shipping the BEST Gibson ever, with great look, great feel, great sound and great features, with finalized and solid MCK, working perfectly for at least the next 100 years or so. These are my priorities.

 

Thanks for reading :-)

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Hey, did you DF owners realize that you were buying a prototype???

 

Basically, same thing that happened to us GOR (Gibson Original Robot) owners.

 

I didn't know I was a beta tester or that I was basically buying a prototype until a few days ago, thanks to a post by a forum member!!

 

This practice frankly sucks. I refuse to be a gunea pig without my knowledge...not for a product I paid 3,000$ for!!

 

And after you guys have tested the DF and ironed out the kinks, the price will be 50% less, and the technology made 100% stable.

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I dont know about the "Gibson Name" to protect.

 

I'm 53 and I've lived through many subpar Gibson product releases. (Sonex' date=' Firebrand ) , I'm amazed this Dark Fire project team of Gibson, Tronical, Echo Audio, Ableton, Native instruments could work together - because typically Gibson sees a technology by a third party company, buys the company, then kills it. (Opcode, )

http://www.allbusiness.com/retail-trade/miscellaneous-retail-retail-stores-not/4628851-1.html

 

After Gibson sent pink slips to the "brain trust" at Opcode,, those same engineers were hired by Apple and they ended up developing Core Audio and MIDi technology into OSX. So thank you Gibson.

 

After playing a Dark Fire, my feeling is that The RIP + Software Bundle = profit. its also more profitable to paint the Dark fire (everywhere but the maple Top) with the worn brown orange peel LP studio finish. So instead of a hand polished lacquer neck, we get the PowerTune II stepper motor Tuners , Piezo output and multiplexed Hex output over TRS, and RIP box.

 

Its true the Dark Fire retail of $3500 USD is too high for some, but compared to many other Gibsons with equal flame maple tops, this is cheap.

 

Basically the Dark Fire shares the same CNC PU and Top route as a Gary Moore BFG, but with chambered body( to lighten the load), worn brown paint finish (to move $ funds towards the Tronical stuff), latest 2008 LP standard Neck profile ( to use the same PLEK process in production), and add all the Tronical goodies. CAN Bus Bluetooth ready Powertune II. MCK, etc.

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/divisions/gibson%20usa/products/lespaul/gary-moore-bfg/

 

 

And I will say - the Dark Fire in bone stock passive mode ROCKS !!

 

If/when all the tronical goodies break down at a gig - just push down the MCK and use it as a damn fine sounding Les Paul. Next year when a Line 6 Variax II strat clone with mag PU option arrives , the Dark Fire will still out gun it sonically shooting straight into your boutique amp of choice.

 

This is perhaps the reason the CEO at Gibson said "Ship it!" figuring that most remaining bugs will be fixed via downloadable firmware updates. And shipping RIP separately slows the Ebay scalpers down - since Gibson will not honor an Ebay Paypal receipt for the RIP box rebate.

 

The variable quality of the MCK pot, and typical % shipping damage are the only fly on the ointment here. But Gibson customer service was very helpful getting me an RMA and my Dark Fire is currently on a Fedex truck to Nashville for repairs.

 

Though I may get the RIP box before i get my axe back from service.

[/quote']

 

elantric, you seem to know a lot about the audio community's "happenings"...I am impressed ;)

 

So you too are waiting for the Variax II...Winter NAMM is only 3 weeks from now..

 

More pressure on Gibson!

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Bah Humbug!

 

Gibson screwed up again and that is the bottom line. As one who has been through this fiasco with the Lifeson I will tell you personally from experience, don't expect any definitive answers anytime soon and some things that you are complaining about will never be addressed or answered. You judge a tree by its fruit, and I have no reason to believe that Gibson has changed their tune. The bottom line with the Lifeson was basically they had our money and were not going to do anything about it. The good thing about the Lifeson is it is still a pretty awesome guitar dispite the volute not being historically correct. But with some of the issues with the Dark Fire, if some of these issues do not get addressed it will be a lemon and will basically be a pretty red Les Paul with robot tuning capabilities.

 

I have every right to be pissed. I believed what Mr. Anderton and Mike@Gibson were saying about this guitar. I was willing to put my mistrust of the company behind me and take another chance with this guitar. The DF had the promise of being a guitar that I could really use on current recording ventures. I ordered the guitar, but am refusing delivery because of all the problems that are coming up. I went through this with the Lifeson and I am not about to go through this with the DF. There is no excuse for releasing this guitar before it was ready. Every piece of electronic equipment I have ever bought always had a users manual. Just inexusable. And, the problems that elantric describes are beyond my willingness and patience to deal with. Been down that road before.

 

I sold a perfectly good guitar to get the DF, and now I will have no DF. Shame on me for believing the hype, for believing that Gibson could pull through and deliver. (How did "W" put that?... 'Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again') From now on if I buy any guitars from Gibson, it will be from the Custom shop in Nashville only and if they screw something up, I will no longer buy a Gibson as sad as that is.

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I'm with you guys here

I live Asia and by god if what you're saying is true I'm going to be totally P***ed off about it as I see all of you guys here are feeling this way from reading the forum

as you might know i don't get the same privileges as US residents to have a chance to win any product let alone get anything "on time" shipments of any musical product take close to half a year to ship here and that's mostly to do with the bulk shipment that the dealers here have to purchase.

Ive been informed that the dark fire wont be arriving till sometime next year and by god! if it doesn't come with the full package that it promises! Gibson will be making more enemies than friends this holiday season hitting the lowest note in my song book

if the DF is delayed shipping and doesn't come with the RIP then ill be restin' in peaces before that is shipped here

totally dampening the strings on my holiday cheer

as I see it Gibson better compose a masterpiece to win our trusts back

and as a musician time is money and so far reading the DF is driving us all bankrupt

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I'm with you guys here

I live in Asia and by god if what you're saying is true I'm going to be totally P***ed off about it as I see all of you guys here are feeling this way from reading the forum

as you might know i don't get the same privileges as US residents to have a chance to win any product let alone get anything "on time" shipments of any musical product take close to half a year to ship here and that's mostly to do with the bulk shipment that the dealers here have to purchase.

Ive been informed that the dark fire wont be arriving till sometime next year and by god! if it doesn't come with the full package that it promises! Gibson will be making more enemies than friends this holiday season hitting the lowest note in my song book

if the DF is delayed shipping and doesn't come with the RIP then ill be restin' in peaces before that is shipped here

totally dampening the strings on my holiday cheer

oh shouldn't a prototype be ...hmm whats that magical word...free?????....or better yet not for sale till the product is actually ready

as I see it Gibson better compose a masterpiece to win our trusts back

and as a musician time is money and so far reading the DF is driving us all bankrupt

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So Mr CEO as you can see we are all P_())ED off and would like to get some form of compensation perhaps returns us 1/2 the amount we paid for the guitar, and we might not ***** as much $ 3500 is steep even for a hand made one of a kind guitar let alone a mass produced electric guitar that happened to be made in the us. Fender and G and L sell their best guitars for less then 2k Godin hand made hand crafted in the USA / canada 500-2500 dollars We got a product granted has tecnology but technology we have no idea how to make work. We were promised a RIP, when we opeded the box we have a rebate card, we have to call gibson and send our receipt to get. This is BULL SH((( your 24 hr technical help cant help us because i quote they were not allowed any time with the dark fire.

 

As far as Im concerned this whole DF team working for gibson is as useless as **** on a boar hog.

 

So MR CEO get your SHI* together and produce what we demand

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Henry needs to step down at this point. After the fiasco with the Lifeson and now this with the same kind of "tough crap" attitude is just not what this brand represents. Henry, you did not start Gibson, it was started by people with integrity and customer satisfaction in mind. I know this is your brain child, but you have to see things through to their ultimate conclusion before any claim to fame.

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I agree with you Wondo he needs to step down, this tough crap attitude needs to go, and the company needs to get back to customer satisfaction even companies that have been around for over 200 years are failing like Citi bank formaly national City Bank so Gibson can so the same with lack of caring

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Henry needs to step down at this point. After the fiasco with the Lifeson and now this with the same kind of "tough crap" attitude is just not what this brand represents. Henry' date=' you did not start Gibson, it was started by people with integrity and customer satisfaction in mind. I know this is your brain child, but you have to see things through to their ultimate conclusion before any claim to fame.[/quote']

 

I said it. The name comes BEFORE anyone who might be working for Gibson right now.

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When is MR CEO going to address our concers or is he hiding out hoping we will shut up

 

Businesses are like children. Nothing is going to happen if there are no consequences to Gibson. As long as people sit, wait, and hope instead of returning these defective guitars Gibson will keep churning out this nonsense.

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