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Izzy

Cabinet Size in relation Sound

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I played my first open mic a few weeks ago and brought my Strat and my VOX AC4.

They miced my amp and I dialed in just a tad on the crunchy side. When I heard it over the PA it sounded nice but hell, I was so nervous I didn't think much. (The practice paid off, I was DEAD on because of muscle memory despite the nerves).

 

After most folks left an older dude who played a Beatles set told me the most flattering thing ever, more flattering than, "you have a beautiful voice." He said, "I liked your tone." Man, I don't know why I was excited but it must have to do with the fact that I got validated for hearing things right. I'm not snobby about tone, but I try to get a good sound in my limited experience.

 

So up to today I thought my tone was pretty decent using the 1/4 to 1 watt amp on the slight crunchy side. Then I remembered the abandoned Blackheart in the corner. The amp itself has lots of headroom so I haven't used it in over a year, but I thought, "what if I use the 1x12 cab with the VOX." I thought it may affect the volume and nothing more but wasn't sure if it may do more. It sounded different at equal volumes (dialed down slightly with the cab to make up for the speaker size). The VOX alone is crunchy with more treble while hooking it on the the cab makes it all thick and I feel like I have more control over the sounds I make. Like if I want clear high notes when picking, I can get them and then go straight to fat distorted bottom chords.

 

Okay so I wonder, is this a size thing?! because damn it I want this tone on stage with me BUT I do not want to carry this 30lbs cab with the 25lbs VOX. *skinny girl problems [flapper]

 

Is there an amp that can give me the clarity AND the fat crunch without breaking my back or dialing between or am I gonna have to make do with the decent tone I get from just the AC4?

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Partly the cab and partly the speaker. You could always sell/trade the ac4 combo for a head only version and find a cab you like. It's what I would do in your case since you like the tone you're getting.

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But I sort of want an amp the size of the AC4...but with bassier sound? Is that impossible because of the size? I guess is what I'm asking.

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Excuse me please for being clearly out of topic, but I read your new signature and am curious what neck strap you use.

 

I also found a comfortable neck strap that turned out to be a vital part of my performance, and meanwhile went with more than two dozens of these:

http://www.levysleathers.com/product;cat,837;item,548;Suede-Leather-MSS3

They effectively minimize neck diving tendencies, too. I exclusively use tan ones and found out that they don't affect nitrocellulose finishes when leaving them permanently on guitars and basses in their cases although they are pressed to the instrument tops by the case lids.

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way to go on the tone props Izzy !!

 

and yes, part cab, part spkr.......one of my fave set-ups is a 5w Blackstar head thru a 1x12" cab.

it produces clear, chimey highs...and tight but bassy lows....at the same time.

an 8" or even a 10" spkr just isn't physically capable of producing the low-tones that a 12" will.....and talk about floor shaking, I used to use an ancient Jensen Chicago 15" spkr, but I foolishly loaned the cab to my Godson, who has no idea what happened to it.

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But I sort of want an amp the size of the AC4...but with bassier sound? Is that impossible because of the size? I guess is what I'm asking.

 

I take it this is the 10" version AC4? yea the speaker and size of the cab will limit the bass you can get out of it especially if you are playing a Strat with single coils.

 

Maybe an EQ pedal or a Fat Boost pedal could thicken the sound but there is a reason 12" speakers are the industry standard. The Rangemaster style boost I just bought (Dyna Ranger) turns my Strat into a beast, anywhere from mild boost to all hell breaks loose overdrive. It also works to fatten the sound.

 

Due to my bad back I do not want to carry my Mesa cab which I love so I found one on craigslist and keep it at my friends house where I jam. Now I only carry the head and it is very convenient.

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No doubt that 12" speakers are very common in guitar amps. I have done a few speaker swaps and even used external cabs with my combo amps. It can make a very significant difference. Different speakers even of the same size and even cab construction (open back versus closed back, for example) have a big impact.

 

You might want to consult some of the speaker manufacturers and get some opinions and options from them. They may have a 10" speaker that will work with your VOX combo that is a better fit for what you are after. I've had a good experience with Weber finding a speaker for my Tweed Deluxe clone that would tighten up the low end.

 

Another suggestion is to try a Fender Princeton Reissue. Light weight and portable. Originally designed as a practice amp I believe, but found its way into many a recording studio.

 

Warning - you are on a slippery slope when you start chasing the tone you hear in your head.

 

Anyway, hope this helps.

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You know I have a Marshall 1965a with 4 10" speakers and it has a lot of thump to it, I am sure that at very high volume levels though the need for 12"s would become evident.

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As a general recommendation, there are some points of certain importance when wanting to mimic the sound of a given speaker in a given cabinet. First, a speaker of same make and size should be used. Second, the cabinet should be basically made the same way, especially with respect to open or closed back design. Finally, dimensions and materials should be similar.

 

Lining and grill cloth are of lower importance, they should just work which means in particular that the grill cloth should stay quiet when operating the speaker, and perhaps look to your taste.

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Izzy...

 

If you don't wanna haul that stuff as a young "skinny girl," wait 'til you're an old "skinny girl."

 

Me, I'm a grouchy old man, and I don't like hauling my big stuff either. In fact, not since I realized a lotta my stuff was more my ego than tools for entertaining others.

 

I got a good quality suitcase carrier such as one uses when traveling the airlines, put my little 35-watt AE amp on it. Built a little shelf for a power strip. Mind you the amp I use for this is a 10-inch speaker rather than the AE amps with 6-8 inch speakers that actually a lotta weekend warriors use to put money in the bank.

 

Anyway, that's my "grab and run" bag. Decent extension cord and a dealie that lets you plug in a 3-prong for a 2-prong that's all one finds in some places one might play. Mike goes in the back of the amp too. The only "effort" is liftin' it in the back of the Jeep. Add a mike stand and it's enough for a small gig and I've done instrumental-only in a 500-seat theater.

 

As for "tone," consider this: Lots of folks like your voice and it ain't comin' from a huge "speaker system" either.

 

IMHO how you "entertain" is what's important in public venues. It's a whole that's more than the parts, eyes and ears, even whether their seating is comfortable - and that's not even considering state of mind of the audience.

 

m

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Excuse me Izzy.....

The guy said he liked your tone out of the Vox which has a 10" speaker? Nothing wrong with that, don't change it just yet. And however large and powerful amp you have these days it will always be miked up and so turned down a bit. You don't need more than one speaker in the cabinet for 99% of stuff now.

 

But a separate amp head and cabinet is much easier to carry.

Yes you would get more better bass out of a 12" speaker than a 10" when you turned the bass up.

Of course there are many amp/cab combinations.

Depends on whether you want real clean Fender-style or do you always always have a bit of dirt in there (Marshall)? A valve amp is heavier than a transistor amp. Judge it entirely by the tone compared to what you already have and like, and try out lots of different makes using your guitar...don't be in a hurry about this or you will definitely go wrong like I have done more than once!

 

But hey, I could see you having a 1 x 12 Marshall cab and amp to match!

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Thank you all for your input.

 

Because the cab size is key to get the tone I got, I will just say meh and stick to my little AC4 tone but keep testing other amps that size from time to time when the opportunity comes. I like the close-backed amps because they're easy to mic onstage.

 

If the tone becomes a critical need (yeah right!) I will do what milod suggested, trade my AC4 for a head AC4 and drag the 1x12 with a suitcase carrier thing. I doubt I'll ever get that picky with my tone though.

 

The idea of the pedal is good, but I am also into the purity and simplicity of plugging straight into the amp...I will try a fattening pedal into an AC4 with my guitar next time I go to GC. Maybe I convert.

 

@ campmaster I got a strap called Comfortstrap that's thick, made of foam. I think I also just got used to the position of standing now. As a sidenote, I notice most kids play up-high at these open mics (electric or not).

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Can you just add a 1-10 or 1-12 to the little AC4? You can do this with many small Fenders. If it does not have an extra speaker output, a competent amp tech should be able to add one for you (dependent upon the output transformer of course). This could give you the best of both worlds - portability when needed, and a bit of extra beef when wanted.

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I played my first open mic a few weeks ago and brought my Strat and my VOX AC4.

They miced my amp and I dialed in just a tad on the crunchy side. When I heard it over the PA it sounded nice but hell, I was so nervous I didn't think much. (The practice paid off, I was DEAD on because of muscle memory despite the nerves).

 

After most folks left an older dude who played a Beatles set told me the most flattering thing ever, more flattering than, "you have a beautiful voice." He said, "I liked your tone." Man, I don't know why I was excited but it must have to do with the fact that I got validated for hearing things right. I'm not snobby about tone, but I try to get a good sound in my limited experience.

 

So up to today I thought my tone was pretty decent using the 1/4 to 1 watt amp on the slight crunchy side. Then I remembered the abandoned Blackheart in the corner. The amp itself has lots of headroom so I haven't used it in over a year, but I thought, "what if I use the 1x12 cab with the VOX." I thought it may affect the volume and nothing more but wasn't sure if it may do more. It sounded different at equal volumes (dialed down slightly with the cab to make up for the speaker size). The VOX alone is crunchy with more treble while hooking it on the the cab makes it all thick and I feel like I have more control over the sounds I make. Like if I want clear high notes when picking, I can get them and then go straight to fat distorted bottom chords.

 

Okay so I wonder, is this a size thing?! because damn it I want this tone on stage with me BUT I do not want to carry this 30lbs cab with the 25lbs VOX. *skinny girl problems [flapper]

 

Is there an amp that can give me the clarity AND the fat crunch without breaking my back or dialing between or am I gonna have to make do with the decent tone I get from just the AC4?

 

I used a 5w Fender Champion 600 with a 1x12 open back cab with Weber classic alnico thirty. The 12" speaker pushes more air, dispersion. The stock 6" 15w speaker in the Champ well, gets thin and harsh and even flabby and farty at highest volume. the 12" inch 30W driver handled the load better. This doesn't mean the 6" wasn't loud, it was but had harsh farty output at highest volume.

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You could try swapping out the speaker in the AC4.

I swapped the stock speaker in my Fender Super Champ XD for a Eminence Ragin' Cajun and wound up with a better, louder amp.

The stock speaker was decent-but now my little amp keeps up with a "sensible" drummer!

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You could try swapping out the speaker in the AC4.

I swapped the stock speaker in my Fender Super Champ XD for a Eminence Ragin' Cajun and wound up with a better, louder amp.

The stock speaker was decent-but now my little amp keeps up with a "sensible" drummer!

 

The Blackheart 1x12 does have an Eminence speaker in it but the AC4 has its stock Celestion speaker. Celestion has a good rep, just like Eminence.

 

A 10 Eminence would sound similar to a 10 Celestion no?

Maybe a swap of tube would do...what would that do? O.o

 

Lol, oh man, I'm gonna turn into one of you guys! Chasing the dragon...the TONE dragon.

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The Blackheart 1x12 does have an Eminence speaker in it but the AC4 has its stock Celestion speaker. Celestion has a good rep, just like Eminence.

 

A 10 Eminence would sound similar to a 10 Celestion no?

 

Not really. Celestion, particularly modern day crappy ones tend to be a little pointy such that about 12 feet from your band somebody is getting vaporized by your Skynyrd solos, that's why nobody sits right in front of you at the bar. Emminence, Jensen, few others, are softer, less cone of death in front of them.

 

It has been my experience that there was a time when Celestion was the Gibson or Fender of the speaker world, but that is long ago now. There are many other less expensive, softer sounding alternatives out there. We don't stack up 8 speakers and drive them with 100w into 100w into the cabinets anymore.

 

rct

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I played my first open mic a few weeks ago and brought my Strat and my VOX AC4.

They miced my amp and I dialed in just a tad on the crunchy side. When I heard it over the PA it sounded nice but hell, I was so nervous I didn't think much. (The practice paid off, I was DEAD on because of muscle memory despite the nerves).

 

After most folks left an older dude who played a Beatles set told me the most flattering thing ever, more flattering than, "you have a beautiful voice." He said, "I liked your tone." Man, I don't know why I was excited but it must have to do with the fact that I got validated for hearing things right. I'm not snobby about tone, but I try to get a good sound in my limited experience.

 

So up to today I thought my tone was pretty decent using the 1/4 to 1 watt amp on the slight crunchy side. Then I remembered the abandoned Blackheart in the corner. The amp itself has lots of headroom so I haven't used it in over a year, but I thought, "what if I use the 1x12 cab with the VOX." I thought it may affect the volume and nothing more but wasn't sure if it may do more. It sounded different at equal volumes (dialed down slightly with the cab to make up for the speaker size). The VOX alone is crunchy with more treble while hooking it on the the cab makes it all thick and I feel like I have more control over the sounds I make. Like if I want clear high notes when picking, I can get them and then go straight to fat distorted bottom chords.

 

Okay so I wonder, is this a size thing?! because damn it I want this tone on stage with me BUT I do not want to carry this 30lbs cab with the 25lbs VOX. *skinny girl problems [flapper]

 

Is there an amp that can give me the clarity AND the fat crunch without breaking my back or dialing between or am I gonna have to make do with the decent tone I get from just the AC4?

Hi Izzy congrats with your open mic debut [thumbup]

 

The Egnater tweaker combo 1x12 15 watt- 30ibs- around 600$. Could be worth checking out.

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n

The Blackheart 1x12 does have an Eminence speaker in it but the AC4 has its stock Celestion speaker. Celestion has a good rep, just like Eminence.

 

Lol, oh man, I'm gonna turn into one of you guys! Chasing the dragon...the TONE dragon.

 

Izzy, Eminence makes a lot of guitar speakers-so does Celestion

 

Eminence Speakers

Celestion Speakers

 

The speaker an amp goes through is as important to the sound as the wiring and tubes--a change in speakers can substantially change the character of an amp.

You just found that out yourself with the Blackheart cab... [smile]

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