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Upwards winding


RobertAndersson

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Hi guys,

I met my usual luthier and we ended up talking about the best way to string a Les Paul.

He said that on LP's, he had started to wind upwards to get a straighter string, since the angle of the LP head stock is good looking but it also creates unnecessary tension on the nut, with higher risk of tuning problems.

Has anyone of you heard about this method before?

55849bc089fc22052d4c0d21102a2bb1_zps36e832b8.jpg

 

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I do this with my Gretsch that has a Bigsby, I also installed a Tusq XL permanently lubricated nut and the guitar stays in tune well.

 

On my Gibsons I do not find it necessary if the nut is well cut. I prefer the added tension on the nut, I was just mentioning that in another thread.

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I do one wrap over then the rest under. I don't lock the string under itself. That just adds slack and creates tuning problems.

 

Check this Taylor video. This is the modern way to string a guitar. This guy makes all his wraps under with no "locking" the string under itself. The important thing is to get the right number of wraps.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80EuGOXgoOo

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... He said that on LP's, he had started to wind upwards to get a straighter string, since the angle of the LP head stock is good looking but it also creates unnecessary tension on the nut, with higher risk of tuning problems. ....

 

Strange. As I understand it, the headstock angle wasn't an aesthetic design element, it was to create more downward string pressure at the nut for better vibration transfer and more sustain. A "straighter" string defeats that design element. OTOH there are those that like a more obtuse angle at the bridge to create less downward pressure for better bends. I prefer the sharper break angles at both ends, and I don't have tuning issues.

 

 

.

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I do one wrap over then the rest under. I don't lock the string under itself. That just adds slack and creates tuning problems.

 

Check this Taylor video. This is the modern way to string a guitar. This guy makes all his wraps under with no "locking" the string under itself. The important thing is to get the right number of wraps.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80EuGOXgoOo

In general the video shows the way to go. In particular, many machine heads don't allow for three turns of an E6th of .046" or .050" gauge. On Gibson Custom Shop guitars with vintage tuners, there might only be space for one - no trouble for an E6th though.

 

But I don't think the guitar is ready to play after doing like shown in the video, at least not worth listening to. Tuning a guitar with the neck supported by a post, let alone adjusting intonation that way, will lead to mediocre results. The best way to do it is in playing position - when playing Spanish, tune and adjust Spanish. The lighter the string gauge and the thinner the neck, the more important it will be.

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Here's how I do my Gibsons. Make the string one post longer on the three low strings - like the Taylor guy. Once it's tuned up, they'll end up with one wrap over and one under with the string sticking outward from the headstock. That's perfect.

 

Then on the top three strings, make them one and a half posts longer - like the Taylor guy - and they'll end up with one wrap over and two wraps under with the string sticking outward - if you're good at it.

 

null_zps67fb87ab.jpg

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Here's how I do my Gibsons. Make the string one post longer on the three low strings - like the Taylor guy. Once it's tuned up, they'll end up with one wrap over and one under with the string sticking outward from the headstock. That's perfect.

 

Then on the top three strings, make them one and a half posts longer - like the Taylor guy - and they'll end up with one wrap over and two wraps under with the string sticking outward - if you're good at it.

 

null_zps67fb87ab.jpg

 

Pretend a "+" button was pressed here

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Guest Farnsbarns

In general the video shows the way to go. In particular, many machine heads don't allow for three turns of an E6th of .046" or .050" gauge. On Gibson Custom Shop guitars with vintage tuners, there might only be space for one - no trouble for an E6th though.

 

But I don't think the guitar is ready to play after doing like shown in the video, at least not worth listening to. Tuning a guitar with the neck supported by a post, let alone adjusting intonation that way, will lead to mediocre results. The best way to do it is in playing position - when playing Spanish, tune and adjust Spanish. The lighter the string gauge and the thinner the neck, the more important it will be.

 

This, anyone who adjusts intonation or tunes a guirltar like that is an il/un-educated amateur and it brings everything else they say in to question IMO. I personally would take anything else that person said with a large tanker of salt.

 

I've just had a look (albeit on a reissue with shorter posts) and the difference in the break angle is so minimal either way that I doubt it would make any measurable difference to anything. As for causing tuning problems... [lol]

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This, anyone who adjusts intonation or tunes a guirltar like that is an il/un-educated amateur and it brings everything else they say in to question IMO. I personally would take anything else that person said with a large tanker of salt.

 

I've just had a look (albeit on a reissue with shorter posts) and the difference in the break angle is so minimal either way that I doubt it would make any measurable difference to anything. As for causing tuning problems... [lol]

 

Try the following:

 

Hang a guitar over your shoulder using a strap and tune it. Check for intonations using 12th and 19th frets flageolet and fretted notes.

 

After having done so, put the guitar on a bench, support the neck anywhere you want, and check for tuning. Then check for flageolet and fretted notes like above. Then tune the guitar as positioned on the bench. Check for intonations like described above and compare the results.

 

Finally, put the guitar over your shoulder again and check for the tuning results achieved on the bench with supported neck.

 

Naahhhh...??!? :o

 

Checking for trussrod adjustment in the playing position is of same importance when wanting best playability and least buzz in... playing position, of course. Mine is the Spanish one.

 

I never play guitars on a bench with supported neck, by the way. [flapper]

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Guest Farnsbarns

Try the following:

 

Hang a guitar over your shoulder using a strap and tune it. Check for intonations using 12th and 19th frets flageolet and fretted notes.

 

After having done so, put the guitar on a bench, support the neck anywhere you want, and check for tuning. Then check for flageolet and fretted notes like above. Then tune the guitar as positioned on the bench. Check for intonations like described above and compare the results.

 

Finally, put the guitar over your shoulder again and check for the tuning results achieved on the bench with supported neck.

 

Naahhhh...??!? :o

 

Checking for trussrod adjustment in the playing position is of same importance when wanting best playability and least buzz in... playing position, of course. Mine is the Spanish one.

 

I never play guitars on a bench with supported neck, by the way. [flapper]

 

I know.

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My luthier claims that his method with overlocking and only a few wraps comes from Martin Guitars, with downwards winding that is. Found this clip:

 

 

Yep - thats how I learned on my 1st guitars - a Martin and a Gibson. Figure if they use this method, it's Ok with me. Locks the string, not alot of wraps to stretch.

The Taylor method works too, as do others, but it's easier to just do the same thing every time, and I am never in a big hurry to restring, so see no advantage to switch.

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