Lefty Guy Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Oh dear, as soon as someone asks for advice on choosing between a J-35 & A D-18 the old "Gibson as inconsistent" comments Kick off again! http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=313266 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 But they are, arent they ... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phelonious Ponk Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 But they are, arent they ... ? All acoustic guitars are inconsistent. I've played a bunch of new Gibsons lately. No two sounded exactly alike, so yes they're inconsistent. But they were consistently good. :) P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 over on the UMGF the some people are starting to say that Martin can't get good bookmatched rosewood . JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 All acoustic guitars are inconsistent. I've played a bunch of new Gibsons lately. No two sounded exactly alike, so yes they're inconsistent. But they were consistently good. :) P Not my experience. Ive played many disappointing Gibsons if I was to be honest. Of course the ones I own are all superb specimens ... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phelonious Ponk Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Not my experience. Ive played many disappointing Gibsons if I was to be honest. Of course the ones I own are all superb specimens ... ;-) I've played many disappointing Gibsons as well. Just not lately. p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Not my experience. Ive played many disappointing Gibsons if I was to be honest. Of course the ones I own are all superb specimens ... ;-) Not saying duds don't exist, but I am saying they dont exist with the frequency that gets mentioned, one thing about guitar forums is you quickly pick up a lot of people like to fashion them selves as some sort of 'tone hound' and will forever bleat on about cherry picking their particular outstanding specimen. Just like the next guy... So, 5 guys walk into a store to try out 7 J-45's from the wall.... guy number 1 rejects 6 of the 7 and buys the 'best one', guy number two rejects all bar the one he lied best and so on... guy 1 meets guy 2, they try each others guitars, both will complement the other telling them its great etc... but more likely than not they will think their own is better, who's right? ....NOBODY. It's what you do with it that counts... The best guitar ever made my man in the whole world and agreed upon by every guitarist wont help you much if you're stuck G, C & D'ing away in extreme mediocrity. How many goals will you score if you're wearing Lionel Messi's boots? of for the boys on the other side of the pond, Will washing your face using a pair of Babe Ruth's vintage knickers as a sponge get your team an extra dozen home runs? I'd bet my John Thomas it wont..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Not saying duds don't exist, but I am saying they dont exist with the frequency that gets mentioned, one thing about guitar forums is you quickly pick up a lot of people like to fashion them selves as some sort of 'tone hound' and will forever bleat on about cherry picking their particular outstanding specimen. Just like the next guy... So, 5 guys walk into a store to try out 7 J-45's from the wall.... guy number 1 rejects 6 of the 7 and buys the 'best one', guy number two rejects all bar the one he lied best and so on... guy 1 meets guy 2, they try each others guitars, both will complement the other telling them its great etc... but more likely than not they will think their own is better, who's right? ....NOBODY. It's what you do with it that counts... The best guitar ever made my man in the whole world and agreed upon by every guitarist wont help you much if you're stuck G, C & D'ing away in extreme mediocrity. How many goals will you score if you're wearing Lionel Messi's boots? of for the boys on the other side of the pond, Will washing your face using a pair of Babe Ruth's vintage knickers as a sponge get your team an extra dozen home runs? I'd bet my John Thomas it wont..... You're just grumpy because hours isn't a cannon and doesnt kill banjos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gov Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 it's funny--i'm also very into photography. in that hobby, there are "gear" forums where they endlessly talk about megapixels, focus points, iso etc and all post crappy pictures of cats a squirrels at various camera settings. other forums are all about images and the desire to become a better image maker, realizing that it's not the hammer that makes the house. i spend time on both, but it's 90/10 later to the former. using that analogy, i find the agf to be the former and this place to be the later. others might disagree but that's my thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 You're just grumpy because hours isn't a cannon and doesnt kill banjos true, although it did take a banjo on a date and slip it a rohypnol at some point in the night... sheepish lookin bugger when it came back too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I still maintain that the perceived inconsistency in Gibson acoustics has to do with the strings Gibson puts on the guitars. By the time the guitar hangs in a shop and is played a few times, the strings are a cruddy, thunky, tone-sucking mess. Taylors are more consistent off the wall in the guitar shop because they ship with coated strings and are mostly machine built (which gives them an antiseptic and soulless character according to some). If you put a new set of strings on any Gibson acoustic in the shop, my guess is they would stand up against any other brand and be superior to most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullmental Alpinist Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 it's funny--i'm also very into photography. in that hobby, there are "gear" forums where they endlessly talk about megapixels, focus points, iso etc and all post crappy pictures of cats a squirrels at various camera settings. other forums are all about images and the desire to become a better image maker, realizing that it's not the hammer that makes the house. i spend time on both, but it's 90/10 later to the former. using that analogy, i find the agf to be the former and this place to be the later. others might disagree but that's my thinking. Too true. I'm trying to learn to shoot video, so I was on a video forum the other day. OP asked if anyone knew of a website that sold gear on credit. Never did get his answer: all the replies were about how he is evil to even think about financing his gear and how much better he'd feel about himself if he slowly saved the money for his $5k Canon. FMA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Not saying duds don't exist, but I am saying they dont exist with the frequency that gets mentioned, one thing about guitar forums is you quickly pick up a lot of people like to fashion them selves as some sort of 'tone hound' and will forever bleat on about cherry picking their particular outstanding specimen. Just like the next guy... So, 5 guys walk into a store to try out 7 J-45's from the wall.... guy number 1 rejects 6 of the 7 and buys the 'best one', guy number two rejects all bar the one he lied best and so on... guy 1 meets guy 2, they try each others guitars, both will complement the other telling them its great etc... but more likely than not they will think their own is better, who's right? ....NOBODY. It's what you do with it that counts... The best guitar ever made my man in the whole world and agreed upon by every guitarist wont help you much if you're stuck G, C & D'ing away in extreme mediocrity. How many goals will you score if you're wearing Lionel Messi's boots? of for the boys on the other side of the pond, Will washing your face using a pair of Babe Ruth's vintage knickers as a sponge get your team an extra dozen home runs? I'd bet my John Thomas it wont..... Agreed! So do a few of the shops near me, because they ONLY have ONE of each on the wall so you have no other choice, and keep a few in the boxes in the storeroom. It probably keeps the 'shop soiled', scratched etc, etc moving along at no loss to them? ALSO.. Every person that tries that guitar is playing a different style and looking for a different sound in their head. BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I really think a lot of this "anti-Gibson" attitudes is a hold over from the Norlin era fiascos......old prejudices die hard!!! I once had a Chinese friend who went with me to a store that happened to be owned by a Korean. As we were leaving the store, he told me he didn't like Koreans. When I asked why, he told me, "Well, my Grandfather really didn't like Koreans!"..????.....So prejudice gets passed on from generation to generation, as perhaps grand-daddy's Gibson bias. Plus a lot of guys on the AGF are into that endless droning on, new age, open tuning, repetitive, sound alike, mindless, overtoney, ringing, over sustaining, type of music...which is so popular over there, and which is not necessarily in Gibson's wheelhouse. So, of course, this group won't like Gibsons. For that type of music, you need a $20k OM sized, exotic tone wood, custom luthier built (insert famous name here) guitar, for which on your AGF NGD posting, the rest of the $20K clique will come out of the woodwork to slap you on the back for your fantastic purchase. Then the buyer will write a glowing review, where the guitar will be referred to as "the best guitar I've ever played!", then 6 months later, after some kind of buyer's remorse, the guitar will be listed for sale on the AGF classifieds, for a mere $19K, again with full support from the "Clique" seconding what a great guitar it is!!! After six months of no takers, and several price reductions on the AGF classifieds, the guitar will possibly sell for $6k......so for me, NO THANKS...I will take my Gibson any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaldreedle Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 You know, having only recently come back to guitar playing, and having recently bought a couple of guitars, I was surprised at the anti Gibson thoughts. My guitar teacher, a great guy, told me that Gibsons were inconsistent or usually bad, but when he tried my J45 Custom I just bought he loved it. The sales guy at the store in Seattle, Dusty Strings, told me that Gibsons were inconsistent with poor workmanship, etc. Frankly I haven't seen it, when I was going to the Guitar Center every other day to buy guitars the Gibsons --- the AJ, Hummingbird, J45, J45 Customs, all sounded great. Maybe I just don't know, or I'm not sophisticated enough, but I loved their sound. I just don't get it, I think they sound great, they have this "funk" to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yggdrasil Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I really think a lot of this "anti-Gibson" attitudes is a hold over from the Norlin era fiascos......old prejudices die hard!!! I think there's more than a kernel of truth in that statement, wily... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 The AGF is what it is. Don't take it too seriously. Lots of nice folks there, but even more folks who know far less about guitars than I do. Lots of followers with little actual knowledge of guitars. Some of the knowledgeable folks try to keep it informative and fair, but I think they often get overwhelmed by the uninformed who are eager to jump-on whatever bandwagon is rolling at the moment. Tell them a Taylor was found in the wreckage of The Titanic and it was still in-tune and many of them will likely believe it. I find it interesting at times and often entertaining. It's a different atmosphere than here. Not saying it's bad. Just different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrairieSchooner Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 it's funny--there are "gear" forums where they endlessly talk about... That's for sure. I frequent forums on several interests: guitars and banjos, shotguns, fly fishing, pipe smoking, etc. There are some folks who are totally into the gear - having the right reel on the right rod, having their gun stock bent 1/8", etc. - and others who are more into the end result - fun, pleasure, enjoyment. When you turn anything into a science, you lose most of the enjoyment factor IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbiii Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Of course, vintage Gibsons are very inconsistent in features -- that is certainly true and may be confused with modern Gibsons guality. Of course the vintage Gibsons were generally of very high quality -- the inconsistency was in features. It is part of their charm. Best, -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markini Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Actually, Gibsons have been getting more love over at AGF recently. The J35 seems to be universally liked and purchased by AGF folk. AS M Picker stated there are lots of nice folks over there and a few really knowledgeable posters. AGF posts don't stay up very long, they are constantly changing due to the enormous membership. But there is also a lot of nitpicking that frankly bores me. I got raked over the coals once there for commenting on my Canadian 'Gibson' - (formerly Garrison) I got a 'good one' and set it up perfectly and to me it sounds and plays great. I received about 20 replies about how mediocre that Gibson was. Frankly I still lurk over at AGF on occasion, but seldom post anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twalker Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 I said it on the AGF and I'll say it here. The only consistent guitars I've played were Huss & Daltons, Collings and others from boutique makers. I never played a bad one or even a so-so one in the bunch. I can't say the same with Martin, Gibson, Taylor and many others from the larger makers. Don't get me wrong, the Martins and Gibsons I own are top shelf stuff, but I had to pick them out from some others that didn't hold up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 I said it on the AGF and I'll say it here. The only consistent guitars I've played were Huss & Daltons, Collings and others from boutique makers. I never played a bad one or even a so-so one in the bunch. I can't say the same with Martin, Gibson, Taylor and many others from the larger makers. Don't get me wrong, the Martins and Gibsons I own are top shelf stuff, but I had to pick them out from some others that didn't hold up. I'm with Toby on this one. As production numbers go up, it seems in-consistancies do also. I was once at our local San Jose Guitar center, and took a brand new Martin Eric Clapton down from the wall. Fit and finish were fine, BUT action was about 6/32" and the saddle was a nub, with no room to really lower it. It needed a neck reset right out of the box!!! As an aside, I pointed this out to the then manager, he thanked me, and when I went back to the store three weeks later, the same guitar was hanging on the wall!!! Something like this should never have left the factory, but it did.....with the numbers they push through out of Nazareth, I'm not surprised!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarrr Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 +1 what they said $400 of labor went into the 18 coats of lacquer on my Collings guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 I have no issues with Collings or H & D. I prefer Collings, primarily because the H & Rs I've played were very lightweight and seemed fragile in comparison with other guitars. I'd be afraid to bump them against another guitar. Just my view. Has nothing to do with the quality of the brand. They sounded real nice.......On consistency, I don't pay that much attention to it. So long as the guitar I'm buying is "me," how consistent or inconsistent other guitars of the same brand are isn't even on my radar. To be honest about it, I don't want a Hummingbird or D28 that is physically identical to and sounds just like all of its brethren. That's just me. I really like the five Gibsons I've got and really don't spend much time wondering if someone else has one that sounds better, or if almost all other Gibsons sound and are built better and mine or mediocre, etc. "For me," my Gibsons give me everything I need from musical instruments. Maybe some day an H & R will the same, but if it does I doubt consistency will be on my mind. I'll be looking for playability and "me.".............This isn't meant as a comment on folks who are big on the consistency issue. We all see things in different ways. It's just that other factors are more important to me. I'm looking at the individual guitar and not comparing it to several of it's brothers/sisters. Someone mentioned Garrison. I've got a Garrison G40. It's about 15 years old now. One of the very sweetest guitars I've ever owned. It's the equal of any of my Gibsons, simply because I like it and have never had any interest in selling/trading it. Where the Canadian-made Garrisons were on the consistency scale I have no idea. All I know is that it's a blast to play and it's "me." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 I played many of those Canadian Gibsons at our local store. The fit and finish were actually BETTER than the Gibsons at the store, BUT the Gibson's beat out the Canadians in three ways, the Solid neck and superior visual tone woods, laquer finish was better, AND most importantly...to my ear, The Bozeman Gibsons sounded FAR superior!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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