stop bar height

[wiltel24]

Is there a suggested height for the stop bar? Mine is set pretty high right now, after being set up by a guitar tech with lots of experience. But wonder if there is a benefit to having it lowered any.

 

Thanks for any info.

[Guest Farnsbarns]

It's very marginal at best but in theory, is should be as low as it can be without the strings touching the back of the bridge. At least, that's the conventional wisdom but plenty of people will say they've done otherwise for years for x, y and z reasons with a, b and c positive results. Try it, you can always count turns so you can revert.

[BigKahune]

It's very marginal at best but in theory, is should be as low as it can be without the strings touching the back of the bridge. At least, that's the conventional wisdom but plenty of people will say they've done otherwise for years for x, y and z reasons with a, b and c positive results. Try it, you can always count turns so you can revert.

 

+1

 

.

[capmaster]

It's very marginal at best but in theory, is should be as low as it can be without the strings touching the back of the bridge. At least, that's the conventional wisdom but plenty of people will say they've done otherwise for years for x, y and z reasons with a, b and c positive results. Try it, you can always count turns so you can revert.

+1 Couldn't have said it any better.

[bobby b]

Not a huge difference but, I do find with it set low the strings feel a bit tighter on string bends, and with it set higher the strings feel a little slinkier on string bends.....ymmv.

[Golden]

The difference in height indicates the difference in the tolerance of the set-neck. I believe 2013 the QC has become much tighter in this area.

[badbluesplayer]

The stop bar height should be set so that the break angle of the strings over the bridge is about the same as the break angle over the nut. All of the strings should have about the same angle, and that means that usually the bass side of the stopbar will end up a little higher than the treble side. Your luthier probably did it correctly - check the break angles visually to see if they're about the same as at the nut.

[Guest Farnsbarns]

The stop bar height should be set so that the break angle of the strings over the bridge is about the same as the break angle over the nut. All of the strings should have about the same angle, and that means that usually the bass side of the stopbar will end up a little higher than the treble side. Your luthier probably did it correctly - check the break angles visually to see if they're about the same as at the nut.

 

That's interesting. Not arguing by any means.. Just wondering the reason for aiming at the same angle each end?

[Whitmore Willy]

Opinions Please....

I've listened to this discussion and the various opinions on string tension for many years.

I can believe that height may make a difference in sound and tone same as top wrapping (no matter how small).....but.....

Doesn't the tension have to be the same, no matter where the tailpiece is, for a string to reach a note and be in tune

in the open position?

 

Just curious,

 

Willy

 

P.S.

If the string is contacting the back of the bridge, (usually only happens on the 1st or 2nd string)

You can always add a tiny relief slot, for the string, in the back of the bridge with a small file.

[capmaster]

Opinions Please....

I've listened to this discussion and the various opinions on string tension for many years.

I can believe that height may make a difference in sound and tone same as top wrapping (no matter how small).....but.....

Doesn't the tension have to be the same, no matter where the tailpiece is, for a string to reach a note and be in tune

in the open position?

 

Just curious,

 

Willy

 

P.S.

If the string is contacting the back of the bridge, (usually only happens on the 1st or 2nd string)

You can always add a tiny relief slot, for the string, in the back of the bridge with a small file.

The tension of the string is determined by its make, gauge, scale respectively fretted length and pitch. There's nothing else.

 

I would never rasp anything off a bridge. This removes the plating. i. e. nickel, nickel and chrome, or nickel and gold. It will give way to corrosion in any case. Perhaps there is a small danger of breaking a string having contact with the back of the bridge, but there's nothing more to worry about except marring the bridge.

[BigKahune]

Opinions Please....

I've listened to this discussion and the various opinions on string tension for many years.

I can believe that height may make a difference in sound ...

 

Actually changing the stop height changes the downward pressure on the saddles. This downward pressure is what Gibson is after with the headstock angle - as the theory goes, more downward pressure on the nut makes for better vibration transfer and more sustain. The same for the bridge/saddles. So if there's an action adjustment up or down, the stop (when present) is also adjustable to keep the downward pressure (break angle) optimal. Of course, with the bridge and stop adjustable, there are other ways to set it up - some like a sharper angle, some a flatter angle, and some top wrap.

 

 

.

[Gunner]

Doesn't the tension have to be the same, no matter where the tailpiece is, for a string to reach a note and be in tune

in the open position?

Absolutely, as noted by capmaster.

 

The difference in feel during bending though is a function of how long the string is on the tailpiece side of the bridge, and whether the string is able to slide over the saddle when the string is bent. Assuming the string can slide over the saddle freely, then the longer the string on the tailpiece side the easier it will feel to bend the string however the further you will have to bend the string to reach a given pitch. If there is a steep angle over the bridge then the string may not move freely over the saddle. The top wrap vs. standard wrap could make a small difference in the length of string on the tailpiece side and could impact how freely the string slides over the saddle. A more extreme example of this would be a trapeze or frequensator tailpiece which definitely gives a different feel during bending due to the increased string length. Note the same principle applies on the nut side, and different styles of headstock (6 in line, reverse, 2 x 3, etc) feel different on the various strings during bends. Note I am not making a statement on whether all of these changes make a noticeable difference in feel or tone.

 

The misconception about tension comes up a lot in discussions about Strat tremolo tailpieces. People will say that they added spring(s) which increased the tension on the strings and made if feel stiffer. In fact they simply increased the combined spring constant by adding spring(s). The string tension had to stay the same unless they changed tuning. Likewise, tightening or loosening the springs only serves to move the bridge plate up or down after the guitar is retuned, not increase or decrease string tension.

 

Edit: Looks like I was typing at the same time as BigKahune.

[badbluesplayer]

That's interesting. Not arguing by any means.. Just wondering the reason for aiming at the same angle each end?

 

The idea of using the same angle comes from seeing how they set them up at the factory. They seem to always do that.

 

Here's my thinking on it. Look at the sketch below. You want the strings to be pressing on the bridge so that the resulting force from the strings pushes the on bridge right through the point where the anchors where the are seated in the guitar. Not in front of the anchors, like as if the bridge is cranked down. Not behind the anchors. Where the resultant is is a function of the break angle over the bridge and where the saddles are intonated.

 

That will mean that the anchors are not wanting to rock forward or backward and that the posts will not have any bending stress in them or the surrounding wood from the string pressure. If you want to be nice to your bridge posts, this is what you want. ABR bridges are especially susceptible to excess forward pressure since they're only anchored into the top of the guitar like 1/4 or 1/2 inch or so.

 

[btoth76]

Hello!

 

Farnsbarns was right at the very beginning. I had strings touching the bridge and that ate away sustain. It made a real difference adjusting it higher.

 

...and what Badbluesplayer says is making sense, and it is in unison with Farnsbarns' theory.

 

Cheers... Bence