Legitimate Complainers

[PLexxiTronic]

Okay. I get it. And, I’m one of you (like it or not. And, I know I’ll catch some heat for this too). But, the last few days there have been words on this forum that, frankly, are from a bunch of ‘legitimate’ complainers. I say ‘legitimate,’ because, I think there is little info about how to use this Dark Fire guitar and we all have a right to it after plunking down the cash. I say ‘complainers,’ because, I think these people aren’t living in reality – they’re expectations are out-of-kilter.

 

Yeah, we all pretty much agree that we didn’t like the way we were handled <by GIBSON> (DAMN them this go-around!) especially after forking out around $3500. Whatever…

 

However, you have to ask yourselves the question, “Why did I want to purchase this guitar”? Was it for investment? Then, I say you are insane. Was it for technology? Then, I say you KNEW BETTER based upon the experiences of the last 15 to 20 years of tech releases (a la Microsoft). Technology changes at lightning speed and you will be ‘out-of-date’ in a heartbeat. I also wish to remind you that music is an art, not a science (remember)! Was it for some, supposed “prestige”? Then, I say you are like those “investors”, again, barking up the wrong tree. Why did you purchase this f’ing guitar? Do you actually BELIEVE in “hype” or “promises”. Get real…

 

I must say, in your defense (and mine), that it’s a bummer that we couldn’t actually try out the guitar BEFORE purchasing it. That, you agree, is the usual case. Hey! But, now that you got it, you can always return it after a couple of weeks or so, right? So, WHAT’S THE PROBLEM HERE?

 

And, I am not so naïve, either. I realize that there will probably (there MUST) be a cost-reduced version in the future. So, WAIT for it, if you want this thing somewhat (supposedly) trouble-free!

 

And you complainers who bought the first Robot, what’s your problem? I also bought the first Robot (yep). I eventually decided to get rid of it only because I liked the Metallic Purple one that was built (slightly) better and because I got at a really great price which was offered at the time. (I don’t think I was a fan of the beautiful blue silverburst color and I think I paid too much for aspects I considered of value to me). BUT, I STILL LIKE MY ROBOT IN SPITE OF THE DARK FIRE AND AM KEEPING IT!

 

Now, I would recommend that you ask yourselves if you can actually ‘afford’ this Dark Fire guitar. I say, if you consider it a bit expensive or on the high end of your range, then, DON’T BUY IT -- wait! Are your expectations a bit exaggerated, or “too high”? Then, DON’T BUY IT -- wait!

 

Why did you purchase the Dark Fire? Ask yourselves!

---------------------------

 

Okay, why bring this up? Well, I want to get on with it, actually. I have decided to keep my Dark Fire even though I have had limited time to play it in these last couple weeks or so.

 

(BTW, I appreciate those who have posted what they believe are “bugs” and to those who were able to get more info on how to handle this thing (a la manual-in-progress).

 

But, you see, I happen to think that this guitar is very well made and that it is quite beautiful. EVEN IF THE ELECTRONICS FAIL, this guitar defaults into “analog mode” and will play VERY well (a la 2008 Standard – and BTW, this is why I like it over the Digital Les Paul; which I don’t think can do this). Am I wrong here?

 

Along these same lines (of a well-made guitar)… I happen to own an Epiphone Masterbilt. Some would say that, “It’s not built in USA and USA makes guitars better than anyone,” or “it’s just a stupid ‘Epi’, not a Gibson, or Taylor, or (fill-in-the-blank)...”. Well, I’m here to tell you that THIS is a SUPERIOR, Chinese-built guitar and that THEY did it BETTER than the USA! You simply CAN NOT find a better built guitar, with these woods, for the price – I defy you! What’s the point? C’mon, … it’s to think for yourself (or, are you just in it for ‘fashion’)?

 

Another story… I bought a guitar in ’71, something called a Gibson Hummingbird for around $500. It was mahogany, as you all know. I happened to HATE the sound of that thing over time! I gave it to my wife, who liked it, with no regrets. Today, had I kept it, well, you KNOW that it would be worth way more! I can give two s****!

 

WHY do you purchase a particular guitar?

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Another thing… People’s tastes are all over the map. You have to separate WHAT YOU ACTUALLY LIKE versus WHAT another person happens to like. You have to get your own priorities straight, right? What’s important to YOU?

 

This “Dark Fire” is JUST a guitar! And, as for me, I’ve got to have some fun with the thing! Otherwise, what’s the point?

[kursal]

I have to say, I agree. I am thinking of getting myself a Dark Fire, somewhere down the line... or maybe the next model that is released.

 

For me though, the pull of the original robot over it's new sibling was simple. I don't need half of the Dark Fire's capabilities. I just wanted a 'proper' Gibson and a great way of staying in tune/retuning.

 

There does seam to be quite a few legitimate complaints about certain things that are technically wrong but I totally agree with the sentiment that you shouldn't buy a guitar for technology and certainly not for investment. After all, you should see the number of people who buy whisky for investment and loose everything they try to invest.

[dexyboy]

RS. Wise words my friend.

[dem00n]

Too High

Gota love this forum.

[Alouf]

RS, it is really not as complicated as you make it sound. Here is the simple way to put it down:

 

.Gibson made a LOT of promises concerning the DF.

.People, in good faith, believed the Gibson marketing hype and shelled good money for the guitar.

.People noticed that the guitar is an unstable and feature missing prototype, unlike Gibson sales claims.

.People are angry and upset.

[Alouf]

After all' date=' you should see the number of people who buy whisky for investment[/quote']

 

Why didn't I think of this earlier?!

 

Up for sale: GOR in **Mint** condition. 3,000$ or the equivalent in Johnnie Walker White Label

[andychar]

Dear RS - I take exception to a few of your statements. Particularly the one about "living in reality". Now...if the DF product were sold with the disclaimers (a) this product ships with no proper documentation and no indication that one is forthcoming soon, ( the digital interface is not ready and there is no expected/predicted release date, © this product has not been tested by real users under real world conditions, then I would heartily agree with you that given the statements above, that to expect a stable product would be indeed unrealistic.

 

Incidentally my reasoning for (a) and (B) come from friendly conversations with Gibson support and © from deduction from first-hand experience and reading posts in this forum.

 

Now perhaps I was naive, but I figured that given the technology history of Gibson with Robot and digital guitars, that the DF would be a reasonably complete and supported product. Instead...what was released was something else entirely, rush released as a "collectors edition" in time for XMAS and NAMM.

 

Now comparing Gibson to Microsoft is far from reality...in so many ways that there isn't enough space on this forum to list them all. First and foremost, whatever you think of Microsoft, I couldn't think of any instance where they or any other technology company could get away with releasing a product so incomplete compared to what was advertised.

 

I have enough experience with technology to know that there may be issues with a version 1.0 product release, and I was expecting a few bumps in the road. My DF qualified as a beta in my opinion. Frankly I have no problem with that either, given that it was represented as such, which was not the case. Even so - the proper way to test a product is by engaging the customers, discussing the problems, asking relevant questions, etc. But it seems they are relying on the "community" (ie. you and me) for that instead of doing that themselves.

 

So if that's the way it is, then so be it. I wanted the instrument for what it promised to be, not for what it might be someday. The little time that I have to make music needs to be productive and that just wasn't possible with the DF today. So I returned it and got a refund. Would I try it again? Definitely! Do I hope it lives up to expectation? Absolutely! I'll be watching the forums here and elsewhere for positive feedback. I can't wait to see what it does when they get it right.

[kursal]

 

Why didn't I think of this earlier?!

 

Up for sale: GOR in **Mint** condition. 3' date='000$ or the equivalent in Johnnie Walker White Label[/quote']

 

Well look at it this way. At least if you buy Whisky for investment there's something left for you to drink so you can forget :-s/

[MCK]

Thank god I am a VAR

 

I find it interesting that a large number of us on this forum are working with technology. I guess the technology in DF is pulling us all here like moths to the light. Just an observation, nothing more to say really.

[Alouf]

LOL,

 

I am an electronics engineer as well :D

[elantric]

I'm an EE too, I was part of a small team that designed this :

 

http://www.dtsonline.co.uk/Exhibition/DTSXD10PCinemaAudioProcessor.sqrl

 

 

 

 

 

www.myspace.com/elantric

[Alouf]

I'm an EE too' date=' I was part of a small team that designed this :

 

http://www.dtsonline.co.uk/Exhibition/DTSXD10PCinemaAudioProcessor.sqrl

 

[img']http://www.dtsonline.co.uk/images/cinema_xd10p_lg.jpg[/img]

 

 

 

 

www.myspace.com/elantric

 

Niiice, I am impressed :D

 

I worked for Matrox on their Matrox Mystique cards back in the days, then later worked on drivers for nVidia and their firmwares.

 

Now I design and build industrial robots for production and distribution...I am mostly doing software though nowadays, working on the AI and control modules.

 

But my main interest remains in audio.

[MCK]

Amazing. I must have touched your code many times as a consumer on my HTPC boxes with Matrox & NVIDIA cards in them... Actually I was always amazed with the frequent and strong driver support from NVIDIA.

 

Me, I'm just a PHB... I'm blessed to be surrounded by bright engineers who keep me honest.

[elantric]

Well we should all network and - who knows - maybe develop something that will fund our next DF :)

[kursal]

Well we should all network and - who knows - maybe develop something that will fund our next DF :)

 

What about some sort of... I don't know.. Robotic Guitar?

[MCK]

I was thinking of getting some open source leeway with Mr. G and doing things they may not want to or plan to do. Like the iPhone stuff we chatted about few days ago. Wonder if they would let us in under NDA etc. Provided we don't sell anything or compete with them in any form or fashion I think we might have a chance to get in. Any thoughts?

[elantric]

I'd like to verify if the Tronical onboard electronic/s firmware may be updated via the RIP box?

 

Its a nebulous unclear issue. Sure appears that borrowing / buying a Bluetooth module may be mandatory to do field updates to the Tronical stuff. But developing an Iphone Gui functional version of all the MCK functions would sell well. But seems Iphone folk hate paying more than $0.99 per app. I bought an Iphone Dec 15, and then bought an Ipod Touch on Dec. 22, to use as a MIDI controller to control all my Dark Fire apps - using these Iphone apps:

http://www.itouchmidi.com/?q=node/32

http://createdigitalmotion.com/2007/10/31/midi-control-with-iphone-and-ipod-touch-i3l-midi-bridge/

http://www.iamas.ac.jp/~aka/iphone/akaRemote.html

 

Then there's this guy running Brian Eno's "Bloom" app" - mounted on the Guitar;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ndf5VzNM21c

 

BTW - I'm more the hardware guy, design the circuit / PCB / chassis mechanicals / FCC RF test - 90% of the stuff I'm involved in lately has multiple DSPs, A/D, and stringent EMI control. Started career off forced to get an EE at NIU in DeKalb, Ill. then while touring west half of USA in Rock Bands - on the road reading all of Don Lancaster's and Craig Anderton's books & building Tube Amps, Bradshaw like pedalboards, etc.

[Alouf]

BTW - I'm more the hardware guy' date=' design the circuit / PCB / chassis mechanicals / FCC RF test - 90% of the stuff I'm involved in lately has multiple DSPs, A/D, and stringent EMI control. Started career off forced to get an EE at NIU in DeKalb, Ill. then while touring west half of USA in Rock Bands - on the road reading all of Don Lancaster's and Craig Anderton's books & building Tube Amps, Bradshaw like pedalboards, etc.

[/quote']

 

Nice!

 

I am going into VST development myself. I am currently working on a plugin that I will use in front of my audio chain. It might also be useful to a more than a couple of people

 

What I really want to do though, is learn to build my own guitars. But I have ZERO carpentry skills (woodwork, etc..)

[MCK]

What I really want to do though' date=' is learn to build my own guitars. But I have ZERO carpentry skills (woodwork, etc..)[/quote']

You probably have all the skills you need. Buy a CNC kit and program away!!! :-)