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Gibson Les Paul Custom Shop 1975 Real or Fake?


Dancemilkdance

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Hello and welcome to the Forums!

 

Well, the headstock indeed looks like the wider ones from the 70s...not the logo on the front, though.

 

In 75, there was no such logo, and the serial number began with "00" and had the "LES PAUL - XXXXXX" script above it. I am confused.

 

Everything else looks fine, but definitely not a Norlin-era model. :-k

 

Cheers... Bence

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Thanks gyus!

 

 

Hello and welcome to the Forums!

 

Well, the headstock indeed looks like the wider ones from the 70s...not the logo on the front, though.

 

In 75, there was no such logo, and the serial number began with "00" and had the "LES PAUL - XXXXXX" script above it. I am confused.

 

Everything else looks fine, but definitely not a Norlin-era model. :-k

 

Cheers... Bence

 

This guitar sells luthier and he was remove original headstock inlay.

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...

This guitar sells luthier and he was remove original headstock inlay.

 

That's not true... He removed the holly veneer inlay from a 70s LP, added a recent one and the CS sticker to the back? Come on...where has the volute gone? Shaved it off? What did He do to the pancaked body?

 

Cheers... Bence

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My guess is that it's either a special-order instrument or possibly one from a small-scale special-order run.

 

Gibson's 'Historic Division' was formed in 1993 as a separate entity and this became the Custom Shop a few years later.

HOWEVER ; there has been a 'custom shop' idea in the company for decades.The 'Custom Shop' waterslide started to appear in the early '80s, applied to the rear of the neck/headstock area on some special order instruments.

 

Here's one version from someone who contacted Gibson on this subject;

"There is no archived detailed information as to a date, but it was in the early 80's that the logo began to be used for what were truly custom orders or limited production orders.

There were several different logos used. The earliest Flametop Reissue I've seen was from 1984."

 

As has been stated there are a few anomalies in the OPs guitar as compared to a 'normal' Standard of this period;

Wide headstock; 3-piece neck construction; no drilling for a p/g; narrow binding in the cut-away; those particular tuners...etc...etc...

But the 3-piece neck was still a feature at the start of the '80s and both it and the volute were phased-out in the very early years of that decade.

 

This is why I believe it to be a special order item from approx '82. I don't for a minute doubt its authenticity.

 

Could you have a peek at the codes stamped into the vol/tone pots and tell us what they read? Or else just use this site;

http://www.guitardat...codereader.aspx

 

P.

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I think it's a fake.

 

1.) A luthier is the seller and...

2.) Some details of the guitar conforms to entirely different decades of the production.

3.) Suspicious serial number.

 

It's either a fake (a very good one, though), or has been altered for some reason. But that's just my guess. Please wait for others to comment too.

 

Cheers... Bence

 

PS.: I might be terribly wrong. Please, don't take my post seriously. Let the ones with deeper knowledge guide You. My excuse is that this guitar is really unique by specs.

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Since nobody is asking, I'll ask: How much?

 

If the seller really does know about guitars and it really is a one off from 1975BCS(Before Custom Shop), it'll be stupid expensive.

 

Otherwise...

 

rct

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To my eyes, this is a genuine Gibson. No obviously suspicious parts, and the headstock is a big SP-2 one I think like made in the Norlin era. The three-piece mahogany (timber not sure from the pics!) neck says any time around 1983 to my knowledge. However, I can't help with dating anymore precisely.

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If the seller really does know about guitars and it really is a one off from 1975BCS(Before Custom Shop), it'll be stupid expensive...

Oh, I don't know about that, rct.

 

With the price - and sheer quantity - of recent s/h RIs on the market at the moment I don't see a Pre-Historic with the 'landing-pad' head and 3-piece neck commanding a premium.

Some "Heritage '80" (and '83) instruments are being offered at silly (to me) prices but no-one seems to be biting.

 

Also, as I inferred earlier, I doubt very much it's from the '70s. 1982 - '83 would be my guess due to the presence of the CS waterslide.

 

It's also an oddity and oddities are, almost by definition, not in the usual marketplace for buyers.

If a pair of collector/completists wanted one of these specific models then it might make a bit more than might be expected but that's a long shot.

 

Pretty guitar, though.

 

P.

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Pippy, i will do some inside guitars photo (vol/tone pots, truss rod, pickup, etc) in the weekend, then i go to seller.

 

Rct, the cost of this guitar 3100$

 

In my town this is best luthier. He orders old guitars or pieces (rare or not) at his friend in america and re-buy new details for replacement. He sad what 1975year stampet in body and i whant to photograph it.

If you guys have questions i can ask him.

 

I want byu this guitar becourse it have unbelievable good sound, it is rly convenient and neck so smooth like runway.

 

One more sorry for my english and thank you all!

 

P.S. Seller sad that american custom shop luthier do this guitar for themselves. Neck pickup native (i do not know which), bridge pickup Angus Young.

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That's not true... He removed the holly veneer inlay from a 70s LP, added a recent one and the CS sticker to the back? Come on...where has the volute gone? Shaved it off? What did He do to the pancaked body?

 

Cheers... Bence

 

Oh, sorry it was another guitar, my mistake. This LP have native inlay.

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Are you asking what the logo looked like in 1975? There was no Custom Shop or logo in 1975.

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Gibson also had a Custom Shop in Kalamazoo until they closed this site around 1985, being The Heritage manufacturing facility since then.

 

I can't remember seeing any Custom shop logos in the early 80's and I bought two of the early "pre-historics" in 1982 and 1984.

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http://www.gibsonguitarsale.net/Gibson-Les-Paul-Spotlight-Special-1983-ASB-Ultra-RARE-Vintage-BHSC_16823.html

 

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/historics-reissues/181067-1983-gibson-les-paul-reissue.html

 

http://mandoweb.com/Instruments/Gibson-Les%20Paul%20Standard%20Leo%27s%20Music%20early%20Reissue-1980/2666

But i think this guitar is not early Reissue, it has too large headsock.

 

I found information (but in me lenguage) about CS logo 1983-1993 year and it was rly exist.

 

And i found this information:

the custom shop was founded in october 1993 (separate production three doors down from the plant) with the production of the historic reissues. the "custom shop" logo on earlier guitars was nothing but a "sticker(!)" for custom orders and limited editions. they were build like all the other guitars in the plant, from the same people, with the same heavy woods, same wrong proceed etc and not in the custom shop. the official historic reissue production (R4, R6, R7, R8, R9, R0, with long tenon neck etc etc) began after long research on the 50´s originals in 1993 and was a completely different new era. the pre-historics and heritage were if you want an attempt to escape from that awful norlin era, nothing else. but they are miles away from what we call custom shop historics, in terms of woods, techniques, proceed, construction, quality, know how etc etc..

 

 

 

I try to find more information.

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Are you asking what the logo looked like in 1975? There was no Custom Shop or logo in 1975....

I can't remember seeing any Custom shop logos in the early 80's...

Not wishing to start a bunfight, cjsinla, but there was a 'Custom Shop' in '75 - it's just that the CS as we know it today wasn't created as a separate entity with it's own building until '93 with the formation of the Historic Division.

There has been a Custom Shop since at least the '60s and probably a lot earlier than that. I've read about it but that was a long while ago and I can't remember the details. I think it goes back to the 20's or '30's.

 

And, yes, the CS logo seemingly did start to appear around 1982/83. There are plenty of folks over in MyLesPaul who have shown pictures of their own examples.

I don't think the Les Paul KMs, the Heritage 80 & 83 Les Pauls nor the pre-historics had the CS logo, though.

 

P.

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During my early years as a guitarist, my favorite music dealer in Munich, Siegesstraße 23, was located door to door under one roof in one building with ISO, the official Gibson distributor of that time, even sharing the same house number. As you might suppose, they achieved an incredible turnover of Gibson guitars in this shop since people came from miles away for choices and options offered there as well as for the prices.

 

I spent thousands of hours at this retailer checking out guitars and amps, finally just buying three of them each during seven years. It was a meeting point for musicians these days, by time they knew me well, and so they tolerated me playing there, knowing I never would cause any ding or dong to an instrument. Every few days I met an artist ordering a one-off from the Gibson Custom Shop which also was promoted for offering these. Having witnessed what happened there from early 1980 to late 1987, I know positively that Gibson operated a Custom Shop in Kalamazoo, and I also got to know when it ceased to exist.

 

On the other hand, I don't know exactly when they started using CS decals at Gibson, and if they were used with any regularity. I didn't dare touching those precious guitars since I couldn't have afforded a single one of them, I just admired them standing high on the shelves, and I rarely saw the back of one of those instruments.

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Very nice guitar. [thumbup]

 

Never have seen such a colour before, although I saw lots of special finishes these years. It also has an amazing plain top. During the early 1980s, plain top Custom Shop guitars seemed more common to me than figured ones. Compared to nowadays, this shows how taste is changing with fashions... :rolleyes:

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Not wishing to start a bunfight, cjsinla, but there was a 'Custom Shop' in '75 - it's just that the CS as we know it today wasn't created as a separate entity with it's own building until '93 with the formation of the Historic Division.

There has been a Custom Shop since at least the '60s and probably a lot earlier than that. I've read about it but that was a long while ago and I can't remember the details. I think it goes back to the 20's or '30's.

 

And, yes, the CS logo seemingly did start to appear around 1982/83. There are plenty of folks over in MyLesPaul who have shown pictures of their own examples.

I don't think the Les Paul KMs, the Heritage 80 & 83 Les Pauls nor the pre-historics had the CS logo, though.

 

P.

 

You are right. I'm just confused by the original post. Was the question, "what did the logo look like in 1975?" or "is this a custom shop guitar made in 1989 to look like a 1975 Les Paul?"

 

I do remember hearing that artists were ordering models to their specs back in the late 60's. And, especially in Fender's case, this led to Custom Shop lines of guitars and reliced guitars. It's no surprise to know that guitar companies might be catering to special clients and making "custom" guitars. My point was that there was no logo in 1975 and that there was no Custom Shop like we know today that was producing guitars that were appearing in larger numbers until the early 80's when Gibson started making what are known as "pre-historics." I would think that the success of Gibson's early 80's custom stuff led directly to the arrangement that we see today, a standalone division.

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