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Reasons why I want a Gibson, but won't buy one...


PacerX

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1) Quality

 

 

Loose tuner bushings, the string height measured like it belonged on a suspension bridge, and the pickups weren't set right for height. Guys, who in the world is running your quality department? Am I really supposed to trust the idea that these things are wrong, but you'll get the not-so-obvious things right on a multi-thousand dollar Les Paul?

 

I can personally attest to the string height being out of whack on an SGJ I checked out at Guitar Center a week ago - brand-spanking new, I was the first human being who had ever touched it apart from a Gibson employee. Set-up was absolutely miserable.

 

Is the actual set-up department on vacation or something? If it played half as well as it SHOULD have, I would have bought it. $450 for an American-made SG? Heck yeah! Sign me up! Well, as long as it played anything like it's supposed to...

 

 

2) Weight-relieved bodies on virtually everything

 

Stop it. Just stop it. If people whine that much about the weight of a guitar, then maybe they oughta learn how to play sitting down. OK... that's not fair... maybe Gibson could have one version of each line (Studio, Standard, Custom...) that's weight-relieved, and they way we can tell the difference is that they're all painted pink.

 

 

On the Les Paul, Brand X got my business. Might still consider the SG if I find one that plays properly.

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In case the tuner bushings and other screws like of toggle switches, pots etc. shall be tightened firmly, they will have to store the new guitars for several months until most of the finish's shrinkage is done. Or do you like cracks in the finish, let alone dull threads in the wood?

 

Setting up a guitar roughly might take four to ten days until it all gets stabilized. My Les Paul guitars with two humbuckers needed four days, my SG Supra about ten. For the final and precise adjustments it took ten days for a Les Paul, about thirty days for a Fender Stratocaster, and about ninety days for my SG Supra.

 

It is strongly recommended to learn setting up guitars oneself. In case a retailer would perform two complete setups for each guitar - one for the stock strings, one for the customer strings, including two or three times afterwork for both, you would pay MUCH MORE MONEY for guitars regardless of brand.

 

Every guitar manufacturer can only guess how the final setup will be. A perfect setup of a brand new guitar with brand new strings definitely is badly wrong the next day.

 

Weight relieving is just bad. I am completely with you. The disease has gone epidemic and reached Fender and PRS as well (OK, couldn't find any fine PRS up to now, so I don't really care). People who don't like the body weight should buy thinlines or slimline solidbody guitars.

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This is a problem with all corporations now. Irrelevant of Country. Profit is King. Cutbacks mean the quality drops, but the profit rises. Here in the UK we keep getting jobs moved to India. The service is awful, but the profit goes up massively because of the wage difference.

Gibson aren't bothered by this. They know they'll still sell the guitars whatever they're like. I'm a decorator and the quality of paint has gone through the floor in the past few years. But the price has rocketed. Profit. It'll cause the fall of the Western world. Nothing wrong with profit. But when the greed sets in, it's all over.

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You didn't buy a guitar because it needed a set-up? Really? You don't have a screwdriver in your house?

 

Weight-relief came in over 30 years ago and, famously, absolutely no-one could tell the difference until someone saw his LP going through an x-ray machine at an airport.

Sonically it would appear that it makes not a jot of difference.

Furthermore most weight-relieved LPs are heavier than most post-'93 solid-body LPs.

 

.. maybe Gibson could have one version of each line that's weight-relieved, and they way we can tell the difference is that they're all painted pink....

Fcukwit.

 

P.

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Again...most of these things are "after they leave the factory," so they're

not QC issues, MOST of the time. Humidity, temperature (in storage, and shipping)

all contribute. Even the climate differences, between where they're built, and

where they find "a home," is somewhat of a contributor.

 

Lazy sales people, who don't inspect what they sell, prior to putting it out, etc.!

Sure, there might be a "Turkey" once in awhile, but most things are quite fixable,

and in short order. Problems can be augmented in the "Big Box" mail-order situations,

where one doesn't have an opportunity to actually "try out" what they're buying. Even

there, though, there are good, and even Great dealers, that will do all that's needed.

Stuff like Sharp fret ends, are caused by wood dryness/shrinkage. Re-hyrdate, it goes

away, more often than not. [tongue]

 

Besides, ALL of these things, and other's mentioned are not limited to "Gibson's!"

In fact, I'd say most are more indicative, of poor dealer policies, for not inspecting,

and/or rejecting those items, that are not 100% sales ready! They should ALL be

inspected, and have a good "general" set-up, prior to going on the sales floor.

Individual set-ups, can be done, after the sale. My dealer does both, and offers

another set-up, within a year, after the sale. Anything after that, is a nominal

(fair) fee.

 

So, before you reject Gibson, on "quality," you might want to re-think who you're

buying from? [tongue]

 

CB

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There will always be hecklers, not logical, but still hecklers.

 

The Gibson QC has been better this year than I have seen in a very long time. They are coming close to the 50-60 era now.

 

Lose the NIBs and they will be "GOLDEN". [biggrin]

 

Set-ups are all aftermarket now. That's a money making market. Fact is any guitar I play I am putting a screwdriver to it, it doesn't matter if its $200. or $4000.

 

The action I have consistently seen in 2013 with no buzz has been very impressive.

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The dealer is supposed to check and adjust the setup of each guitar before it goes to the floor. Guitar Center just plain doesn't do that. So Guitar Center is part of the problem. But the guitars should be set up better at Gibson, too. But that's between Gibson and the dealer. Gibson's the manufacturer and GC is their agent.

 

You won't get this problem at Sweetwater or somewhere where they set up each guitar. But you absolutely will get this if you go to GC.

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Ummm Is this video "nit-picking"???

 

He complained about the string height but when he went to measure the relief he said it was spot on.

The pickups needed to be lowered 2/64's.. sounds not far out to me.

and his total string height adjustment he said it should be 5/64's on the base side and he was at 6/64's.. Hmmm is that tooooo far out of spec?

 

Sounds to me like this video has a "visual" problem. Meaning the adjuster thought in a visual inspection that things were out by a ton when they weren't

 

 

On a side note. I have see lots of Gibson's in the stores where the stop tail was really high.

When I asked the sales guy, he said they keep them high for the store since if they lowered it to "normal" the customers would be breaking strings a lot.

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Demanding that a guitar be set up perfectly in the store is a lot like going to a car dealer and complaining that the seats, radio presets, and heater weren't set to your liking.

 

I've complained for years the nut height is too high on many guitars. I don't think that's going overboard. I've seen some on the rack with 0.050" or more air between the strings and the first fret, and that's just unacceptable, period. Guitars are designed for human beings to play, and they should make it to the store passing that benchmark at an absolute minimum.

 

Consumers should expect guitars on the rack to be REASONABLY set up, i.e. no excessive relief in the neck, strings that aren't covered in rust, things like that. People should expect a little tweaking as they go, though. And if they do purchase a guitar and don't usually do their own setup and maintenance, it would be a good idea to have it set up close to their liking THEN. Imagine the guy who buys a new SG, takes it home, and puts Stevie Ray Vaughn caveman 0.014-0.060 strings on it, throws the neck all out of whack, then complains about Gibson quality????? Neither Gibson or any dealer could see that coming.

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1) Quality

 

 

Loose tuner bushings, the string height measured like it belonged on a suspension bridge, and the pickups weren't set right for height. Guys, who in the world is running your quality department? Am I really supposed to trust the idea that these things are wrong, but you'll get the not-so-obvious things right on a multi-thousand dollar Les Paul?

 

I can personally attest to the string height being out of whack on an SGJ I checked out at Guitar Center a week ago - brand-spanking new, I was the first human being who had ever touched it apart from a Gibson employee. Set-up was absolutely miserable.

 

Is the actual set-up department on vacation or something? If it played half as well as it SHOULD have, I would have bought it. $450 for an American-made SG? Heck yeah! Sign me up! Well, as long as it played anything like it's supposed to...

 

 

2) Weight-relieved bodies on virtually everything

 

 

Stop it. Just stop it. If people whine that much about the weight of a guitar, then maybe they oughta learn how to play sitting down. OK... that's not fair... maybe Gibson could have one version of each line (Studio, Standard, Custom...) that's weight-relieved, and they way we can tell the difference is that they're all painted pink.

 

 

On the Les Paul, Brand X got my business. Might still consider the SG if I find one that plays properly.

 

Pacer,

If you don't want one, don't buy one, it's as simple as that, but I can't understand why you feel the need to come on here and share this with us? It's utterly pointless. I won't be buying a bra, but I don't feel the urge to share that information with everyone else!

 

Ian.

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1) Quality

 

 

Loose tuner bushings, the string height measured like it belonged on a suspension bridge, and the pickups weren't set right for height. Guys, who in the world is running your quality department? Am I really supposed to trust the idea that these things are wrong, but you'll get the not-so-obvious things right on a multi-thousand dollar Les Paul?

 

I can personally attest to the string height being out of whack on an SGJ I checked out at Guitar Center a week ago - brand-spanking new, I was the first human being who had ever touched it apart from a Gibson employee. Set-up was absolutely miserable.

 

Is the actual set-up department on vacation or something? If it played half as well as it SHOULD have, I would have bought it. $450 for an American-made SG? Heck yeah! Sign me up! Well, as long as it played anything like it's supposed to...

 

 

2) Weight-relieved bodies on virtually everything

 

Stop it. Just stop it. If people whine that much about the weight of a guitar, then maybe they oughta learn how to play sitting down. OK... that's not fair... maybe Gibson could have one version of each line (Studio, Standard, Custom...) that's weight-relieved, and they way we can tell the difference is that they're all painted pink.

 

 

On the Les Paul, Brand X got my business. Might still consider the SG if I find one that plays properly.

 

 

 

I agree on number 2

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OP got a better one....

 

 

 

though it wasn't set up perfectly.....

 

[lol][lol][lol]

 

I can tolerate a $200 used Danelectro made out of a countertop needing a neck shim...

 

A brand new Les Paul? I think not.

 

Oh, and you missed a picture:

 

IMG_5072_zps574cafa7.jpg

 

See the black guitar on the bottom left next to the Strat?

 

That's a real-deal, non-swiss-cheesed, 11.5 lbs., maple over mahogany, rosewood fretboard Les Paul from the only manufacturer that actually makes a real Les Paul anymore:

 

Heritage

 

 

PS - Didn't need a setup. Odd... I thought all new guitars are supposed to need a setup... it seems that that just isn't true. Shocking.

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Guest Farnsbarns

I can tolerate a $200 used Danelectro made out of a countertop needing a neck shim...

 

A brand new Les Paul? I think not.

 

Oh, and you missed a picture:

 

IMG_5072_zps574cafa7.jpg

 

See the black guitar on the bottom left next to the Strat?

 

That's a real-deal, non-swiss-cheesed, 11.5 lbs., maple over mahogany, rosewood fretboard Les Paul from the only manufacturer that actually makes a real Les Paul anymore:

 

Heritage

 

 

PS - Didn't need a setup. Odd... I thought all new guitars are supposed to need a setup... it seems that that just isn't true. Shocking.

 

My completely solid LP (Gibson) weighs nothing like 11.5lbs. Seems heritage have started using some slabs that are way over weight. Not like them, that's a shame.

 

How does it play? I've played some heavy old Lesters and liked the way they played.

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Wow! You're still here!...

 

Why?

 

That's a real-deal, non-swiss-cheesed, 11.5 lbs., maple over mahogany, rosewood fretboard Les Paul from the only manufacturer that actually makes a real Les Paul anymore : Heritage...

I'll bet you anything you like my Les Pauls are more like "a real Les Paul" than your 'Les Paul'.

 

Anything.

 

If you accept the challenge then let's see what you have to offer. You may have the honour of 'First Blood'.

If you don't accept this (very reasonable and, possibly, rather fun) challenge then STFU about what is and what is not a real Les Paul.

 

[smile]

 

P.

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I'll bet you anything you like my Les Pauls are more like "a real Les Paul" than your 'Les Paul'.

 

Not to worry, Pip. Once the fretboard starts parting from the last two or so inches of the neck, the op will stop crowing about his Heritage. Happens to all of them, "rising tongue" it is called, has something to do with the tenon and the way the fretboard is pressed on. Has always been a problem, I don't know anyone that has had a Heritage for long.

 

rct

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...Once the fretboard starts parting from the last two or so inches of the neck, the op will stop crowing about his Heritage. Happens to all of them, "rising tongue" it is called, has something to do with the tenon and the way the fretboard is pressed on. Has always been a problem, I don't know anyone that has had a Heritage for long.

 

rct

Ah, well that's a shame, rct.

I'd like to have read that Deurloo, Lamb and Moats had kept up to the old Standards (pun) so it's a pity to see you say there are recurrent QC issues with the instruments.

 

On holiday in August we saw a jazz/chanson quartet and the guit-picker had a beautiful - and clearly pretty 'elderly' - Heritage Jazz-Box which sounded very sweet indeed.

If a nice one comes up needing some TLC then who knows? I know a good luthier in the area who could stop that tongue from wagging!...

 

P.

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But he must be right, kidblast. I mean to say; he's actually played a Gibson guitar which needed some adjustment.

How much more proof do you need?

 

P.

 

Instead of being snarky, I'm just going to observe this one..

 

just keep it all with the Good Karma,,

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