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1934 gibson lg2 help


countmesure

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hello, new to this forum. i have an offer to buy a 1934 gibson lg2 for $1200 usd. the only problems with it is that it has a cracked bridge in the center. the bridge is not coming off the top of the guitar though. there is a long crack along the two pieces of wood where they are joined in the back center. also the tuners are not original nor is the truss rod cover. the frets are original and have no damage. it does have all over damage cosmetically. other than the problems ive said no other damage has been done to the guitar structurally. i have many hq pictures but i cant upload them due to the file size. my main concern is that its not worth 1200 usd in its condition and if i wanted it to get it restored by gibson that id end up paying more than the guitar is actually worth. what is some expert take on if i should offer a lower amount or if its just too big of a headache to purchase and restore at 1200 usd.

 

factory markings on the internal neck joint: 9616 1. there are no other markings on this guitar such as s/n etc. i think the finish is a sunburst. though im not up on my gibson finish terms.

 

thanks for all your guys help.

 

 

i might also add that the person says its 1934 but he told me that he had gibson and another company date the guitar to 1939, but i think hes not being truthful. also this is the reason he says its worth 1200 and also ebay they sell for 3 grand. his words not mine. from my limited research from the factory markings i believe it to be from mid 1920s to late 1930s with no possible way to pin down an exact date.

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Do some investigation first. To my knowledge, the LG2 was not made until 1942. If it is advertised as a 1934 LG2 than that could be in error. Do your homework before plunking down money, is my advice.

Pictures and/or dimensions would be a good start for anyone on the forum to help with your inquiry.

Your concerns are certainly valid and have been shared by most of us when considering the purchase of a vintage Gibson!

 

As long as the Factory Order # 9616 1 is correct, it is more likely to be a 1951. It sounds to me that the seller is just not knowledgeable about what he is selling.......even more reason for a buyer to do his homework.

We can,t see it and that is key in the identification and evaluating process.....Jes Sayin'

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Do some investigation first. To my knowledge, the LG2 was not made until 1942. If it is advertised as a 1934 LG2 than that could be in error. Do your homework before plunking down money, is my advice.

Pictures and/or dimensions would be a good start for anyone on the forum to help with your inquiry.

Your concerns are certainly valid and have been shared by most of us when considering the purchase of a vintage Gibson!

 

As long as the Factory Order # 9616 1 is correct, it is more likely to be a 1951. It sounds to me that the seller is just not knowledgeable about what he is selling.......even more reason for a buyer to do his homework.

We can,t see it and that is key in the identification and evaluating process.....Jes Sayin'

pictures of the guitar including damage pictures

 

http://imgur.com/KdwtJGS

http://imgur.com/9ywRlhc

http://imgur.com/yjkur0j

http://imgur.com/0SiHzmJ

http://imgur.com/mQaC9PD

 

if i could get some definitive info on this guitar and what its worth to prove my case its not worth 1200 if thats the case that would be helpful. ive talked to so many people at guitar shops that are super unhelpful and guitar center in manhattan that wont tell me how much its really worth or if its a good buy. also resources are very limited due to only factory order marks that helped me date it to a degree.

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It looks like a '51 LG to me. Second question??? Can you tell if it has an X-braced top? Should be noticeable about 1" inside the soundlole! IF it is X-braced than LG2....If ladder braced than LG1.....different guitars and values [thumbup]

It looks to be in good shape cosmetically from the pics provided. If I, personally liked the playability and tone, I would not shy away from $1200, but would strive for 1K with the possibilities of some repair work, IF NEEDED......repair work is always better served and done by a 'good' independant luthier with 'vintage sensabilities' than sending back to the factory......In my opinion!

 

BTW, the bridge looks much better that what you described originally as split....jes sayin'

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I love ya jt.....keepin' it simple [thumbup] Nah.....ain't no Banner....[lol]

from what i know ww2 models have a banner.

 

here is a interior picture

 

http://imgur.com/IeiIjWs

 

the back picture the crack is pretty long and moves if touched. the bridge is flat to the top but is cracked in multiple places. there is also a piece of wood looks like flat bracing directly under the sound hole on the back of the guitar that is peeling up. the action is low and no buzzing on the frets. im sure all this effects the value of the guitar. still worth 1200? a guy at guitar center wanted to sell me a 50ish lg2 for 1500 in restored condition a while back. i know different years are worth more or less, just wondering.

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As retrorod said, it's definitively not a 1934. back needs fixing, bridge needs repair/replace, truss rod cover is not a big deal, tuners may or may not be a big deal--certainly if they function, it's not a big deal unless you are looking for an all original model. If it's a '51 as retrorod notes above, it would have had kluson covered three on a plate tuners--those are fairly easy to find whether you want the new ones or the vintage ones. not sure if any additional holes were drilled for these new tuners (likely in my opinion).

 

bottom line is it's going to be hard for folks here to determine what needs to be done and therefore advise definitively. you also need to determine whether it needs a neck set and to what extent any braces are loose or missing. $1200 would not be "walk away" price for me if I liked the sound and knew what I was doing in looking around a vintage instrument. If it needs a neck set, new frets, has missing braces, loose braces and more cracks than the center line back, it might be a different story.

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It looks like a '51 LG to me. Second question??? Can you tell if it has an X-braced top? Should be noticeable about 1" inside the soundlole! IF it is X-braced than LG2....If ladder braced than LG1.....different guitars and values [thumbup]

It looks to be in good shape cosmetically from the pics provided. If I, personally liked the playability and tone, I would not shy away from $1200, but would strive for 1K with the possibilities of some repair work, IF NEEDED......repair work is always better served and done by a 'good' independant luthier with 'vintage sensabilities' than sending back to the factory......In my opinion!

 

BTW, the bridge looks much better that what you described originally as split....jes sayin'

 

 

It has the center strip on the inside so is not an LG-1.

 

The bridge is split from the G to the high E string so is in pretty bad shape. You might want to check the bridge plate just to be on the safe side.

 

Assuming there are no other issues than the separating back seam and bridge, I agree $1200 is not outrageous but I would feel a lot more comfortable in the $1K range.

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As Rod says and the pictures and factory order number confirm, it is almost certainly a 1951. I hope the seller is ignorant rather than dishonest, but you have to factor this into any offer. The interior picture shows it to be an LG-2. $1200 might be a fair price, but the pictures do not provide enough detail to give certainty.

 

If it needs substantial repairs that are not immediate apparent from the pictures, your "bargain" could prove to be something else. I would certainly be interested at that price, pending a first-hand inspection.

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As Rod says and the pictures and factory order number confirm, it is almost certainly a 1951. I hope the seller is ignorant rather than dishonest, but you have to factor this into any offer. The interior picture shows it to be an LG-2. $1200 might be a fair price, but the pictures do not provide enough detail to give certainty.

 

If it needs substantial repairs that are not immediate apparent from the pictures, your "bargain" could prove to be something else. I would certainly be interested at that price, pending a first-hand inspection.

 

^^^^ What he said. If it were me, that price would definitely deserve a second look. I've bought a number of these before and they all seem to need about the same thing. Here's how I would evaluate it:

 

1. Finish: it appears original except that the logo looks like it has been touched up. Bring a hand held black light and check the finish in a dark room for inconsistencies. If it all glows bright green with no weird purple spots then it is good.

 

2. Neck: you say the angle is good. How about the relief? Sight the line from the nut to the tongue of the fretboard and it will probably not be straight. Check the truss rod nut to make sure it isn't cranked down too tight. If it seems to work then a luthier could get it set up right. How are the frets?

 

3. Body: I wouldn't worry about that crack. It's a fact of life and luthiers don't charge much to fix them. Check the braces by tapping on the exterior of the guitar where the braces should attach on the interior. If you get a nice tight hollow sound when you tap near a brace then it is most likely tight. If you feel a little rattle or an extra tap then it is loose. I'm betting it has several loose braces which will run you about $200 from a skilled luthier. Next, take a mirror or a smart phone and look underneath the bridge at the bridge plate. It should be flat and the balls of the strings should be sitting on the plate and not in it. My guess is that you'll need a new bridge plate on this one. Last is the bridge which needs to be removed, repaired and reglued.

 

If the pictures are an accurate representation of this guitar and the neck angle is as you say, I bet this guitar will take about $300 in repairs. I would point out these things to the seller and ask that he take $300 off the price to account for the repair price. $900 would be a pretty good price for this old gal. Good luck!

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I must be looking in all the wrong places because all of the LG-2s that I have seen from this era have been closer to $2000...a lot of them have had as many if not more than the issues or potential issues described here. Is this just an over priced online market I am seeing? I know there are a lot of over priced guitars on eBay, but even on dealer sites and Gbase these seem to be going for well over a grand. It's doesn't seem like pawn shops end up with anything good anymore and when they do it seems overpriced...where can you find an early fifties LG-2 for around a grand?

 

I am not asking that question because I think I know something others don't....I want one, and haven't seen anything near that price.

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I must be looking in all the wrong places because all of the LG-2s that I have seen from this era have been closer to $2000...a lot of them have had as many if not more than the issues or potential issues described here. Is this just an over priced online market I am seeing? I know there are a lot of over priced guitars on eBay, but even on dealer sites and Gbase these seem to be going for well over a grand. It's doesn't seem like pawn shops end up with anything good anymore and when they do it seems overpriced...where can you find an early fifties LG-2 for around a grand?

 

I am not asking that question because I think I know something others don't....I want one, and haven't seen anything near that price.

 

 

It's all about being in the right place at the right time. Online prices and high-end store prices are generally inflated when it comes to vintage guitars, although a reputable vintage dealer will stand behind his products if they are misrepresented in any way. Ironically, some of the best values I've seen are listings on Guitar Center's vintage/used site. I've also found good values (but not always) at guitar shows, particularly on the last day when sellers don't want to take the guitars home with them.

 

The reality check is the price of late-model used "modern" Gibsons. Vintage is not always better. I simply would not pay the same thing for an average-sounding early-50's LG-2 as I paid for a near-pristine Adirondack-topped Fuller's 1943 Southern Jumbo re-issue.

 

Don't get me wrong. I love vintage guitars, and there are great ones out there. But you really do need to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff if what you are after is a musical instrument, and not something that could turn into a costly labor of love.

 

This particular LG-2 could be good value at the asking price, but you need to know what you are looking at with vintage instruments, as repairs can turn a seeming bargain into an albatross very quickly.

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I agree totally with what Nick so eloquently writes above [thumbup]

 

One must do their homework and 'weigh out' the results. It is a very typical scenario that when some folks have an "old Gibson for sale" .....that rumours and folklore and speculation grow into "fable" and "mis-information" and they then "fantasize" over their "Holy Grail" being worth a bazillion bucks.

 

It is sometimes hard for 'educated buyers' to persuade and educate the 'uneducated seller' into embracing 'reality'.

 

A good example is this seller claiming the guitar is a '34. I would not feel confidant with any more info that he would give me after that statement........as an 'educated buyer'....Jes Sayin'

 

For granted.....he is not "asking the moon".....But beware of any other pre-concieved notions and descriptions that he may give you!

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I must be looking in all the wrong places because all of the LG-2s that I have seen from this era have been closer to $2000...a lot of them have had as many if not more than the issues or potential issues described here. .

 

 

Sounds like you are looking at Willie's or Gary's or something. I tend to run into late 1940s and early 1950s LG-2s in in all original and nice condition in the $1600 to $1800 range. There was a '51 LG-2 on eBay recently that I was watching - player's grade and a bunch of repaired side and back cracks with a BIN of $1350 which did not sell. Nobody even put in the opening bid of $1K. Maybe there was something about this a guitar I was missing. Don't know. I am thinking there are just too many of these little Gibsons available.

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Sounds like you are looking at Willie's or Gary's or something. I tend to run into late 1940s and early 1950s LG-2s in in all original and nice condition in the $1600 to $1800 range. There was a '51 LG-2 on eBay recently that I was watching - player's grade and a bunch of repaired side and back cracks with a BIN of $1350 which did not sell. Nobody even put in the opening bid of $1K. Maybe there was something about this a guitar I was missing. Don't know. I am thinking there are just too many of these little Gibsons available.

Too many available and the vintage hype has caught on quite yet with these small body guitars.

 

I would like to have a LG-1 to complement my 43' Banner LG-2 but haven't found one priced accordingly yet. There have been some on the local Kijiji site over the past year going for $1500-$2500 (lol don't know if they sold). Then just last week I was at my favorite shop that specializes in acoustics and also the vintage instruments. They had a nice mid 50's LG-1 in player grades condition on commission. It was a great sounding guitar but at $1800 + 13% sales tax there was no way I was considering it.

 

Yes a guitar may be special and sound great but you have to be realistic. All guitars have a range of momentary value. Sellers and to some extent buyers need to be realistic in there pricing/purchasing.

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Well said Chris!

 

I have often stated (somewhat erroneously) that if one wants to know the value of their guitar, place it on Ebay auction with a low starting price for 7 days and get at least 500 views and see what it brings!

 

That statement is 'erroneous' in that a 7 day period 'limits' the amount of 'potential viewers/bidders of your guitar and limits your chances of finding "Big Daddy Warbucks" who just HAS to have your guitar. Luck of the draw really!

 

Timing is everything, but a search of "completed listings" on Ebay can give one a truer sense of the market. And that 'my friends' is 'reality' like it or not B)

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Sounds like you are looking at Willie's or Gary's or something. I tend to run into late 1940s and early 1950s LG-2s in in all original and nice condition in the $1600 to $1800 range. There was a '51 LG-2 on eBay recently that I was watching - player's grade and a bunch of repaired side and back cracks with a BIN of $1350 which did not sell. Nobody even put in the opening bid of $1K. Maybe there was something about this a guitar I was missing. Don't know. I am thinking there are just too many of these little Gibsons available.

there is defiantly some misinformation the seller is giving me saying they contacted gibson and they said it was a 1939 and the company from tennessee that starts with GH. i cant remember the actual name of the company who dated/priced it. i do know they are an authority. they will value a guitar for 50 bucks. if he did do that i doubt he told them about the damage. the guy said he paid a lot for it and is firm on 1200. its a walk away for me. considering id be belly up after restoration and would have more into the guitar than its worth. i dont believe the guy will budge on the price.

 

long crack/movable on book match seem.

bridge needs replacement.

tuners not original.

truss rod cover not original.

at least one bracing has moved about a half inch.

center bracing peeling up.

logo repainted.

 

even with all these issues i doubt hell change his price. i think from this information/thread info that its worth about 600-700 tops in current condition.

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I don't typically many LG2's around my parts for less than $2k. I'm in NYC but even still--a quick peek at GBASE and of the 21 LG2's before 1960, only two are less than $2k asking and one of those is $1950. Not the be all end all sample I realize but nonetheless.

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