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Is the Guitar Era gone for good?

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Yes, I am a fan of this. This has loyal followers that are typically of similar age as the musicians. I am not saying it's not out there, it's just not appreciated as much. I'd like to see a very talented, groundbreaking band of 25-30 years olds that compose something of musical depth reach the top of the charts. A band that takes pride in the composition and not the dance moves...

 

Here you go, Avenged Sevenfold, their last two albums have reached No 1 on Billboard.

 

http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/5680123/avenged-sevenfold-earns-second-no-1-album-on-billboard-200

 

I actually didn't knowthis even though I have the two albums, because I have zero interest on what makes it on Billboard and what does not.

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Well, that is for sure, but you know - modern stuff like all those singers nowadays, lady gaga, miley cyrus, however they are spelled.

But there still are groups around, just don't know them as well.

 

have to look around and see what is out there on the Charts and all of that.

Time -consuming that is for sure. Prioities may be different now and take place.

Like replacing water pipes since the cold blast from the North or the Polar Vortex as it was named.

 

It is not all old people at those concerts either. Just the hype from a limited media reporting anything.

 

Actually it may be in other parts of the world, that lady gaga or miley cyrus or any other are not all that

great to them. Depends.

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Guitar Era may be gone but there are still others - known to those who find out about them like this girl bass guitar player.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC02wGj5gPw

 

Still others that are around.

She also has her own group and recorded albums.

Wicked piano player in her group.

Just click on the top of the video where the song is listed to go to utube.

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Guitar Era may be gone but there are still others - known to those who find out about them like this girl bass guitar player.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC02wGj5gPw

 

Still others that are around.

She also has her own group and recorded albums.

Wicked piano player in her group.

Just click on the top of the video where the song is listed to go to utube.

 

Yeah, Tal's awesome!

 

CB

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Here's the deal as I see it...

 

The guitar is likely to have a long future because it's not one, but many instruments. It's portable to varying degrees. It can be played at a low level of skill with great group enjoyment with a solo or singalong, or it can be played with great virtuosity in almost any genre with many different concepts in play by a given artist - fingerstyle to incredible skill at flatpicking, acoustic or with an incredible range of electronic usage.

 

OTOH, the degree to which a given player is universally known... Naaah. I think that's been decreasingly likely since the rise of cable television in the '80s.

 

And frankly except for a few longtime performers like Chet, even when I was playing for money in the '60s and '70s, the names of the pickers wasn't really of interest to me because I seldom had something to watch, and it was more a matter of listening to a "song" to figure what was going on rather than my head crediting the artist.

 

So I'd suggest that it would take something odd to change the distribution of music from its currently splintered and walled-off special audiences to get the degree of being known as was the case in the '50s through the '70s. One might ask also whether such as Chuck Berry was known more as a guitarist or singer... ditto BB and other blues artists.

 

One of the younger pickers commenting above said "Slash" was universally known. Say what? Slash is who? Played what? My generation would recognize his playing as they do Chuck Berry or the Beatles?

 

More than that, what "Slash" lines have been used in elevator music? Would a country or "Christian Rock" player necessarily recognize him?

 

In fact, I wonder how many younger folks who play a "Les Paul" have any idea what and how the musician Les Paul played?

 

So it's as if we're discussing different aspects of the same issue, changes in music distribution, the popularity of a given musician and above that, the popularity of the guitar as an instrument to own and play to various levels of ability in various genres.

 

m

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More than that, what "Slash" lines have been used in elevator music? Would a country or "Christian Rock" player necessarily recognize him?

 

 

Actually and sadly... yes I have heard Sweet Child O Mine as muzak [crying]

 

Maybe to you hes not such a big deal but the people who have grown up with him and whom he inspires think different.. And its when those kids grow up and make their own music based on what they learned from listening to him that will tell if he will make the history books or not (if indeed that happens).. Who can say what impact he or any other musician will have until we get to the future, years after the facts.. It easy to state what happened in the 50s and 60s as fact as you can trace the history back (especially these days with the net an all), not so easy to say whats gonna happen or who will influence what and how. Unexpected things do and will happen.

 

As far as his status is concerned, hes played with many of the greats and has probably made more guest appearances on various types of music than almost any other mordern guitarist I can think of.. So commercially hes huge, and I know that to a lot of players my age hes a huge influence. Im not even saying hes the best guitarist or musician in the world but he does what he does very well and works hard at it (IMO of course :)) and almost more than anything I have to respect that (as I would any hard working person).

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I think IF there is another guitar hero down the road, it will be a woman. A virtuoso with a great stage presence, great voice and great songs. The media would eat it up and the men...well they would wish they could eat it up :)

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Another thought...

 

During the age discussed here as the "Guitar Era" the electric guitar was a relatively young instrument. While there were earlier electric hollow bodies, the solid body electric guitar was not really commercially available until 1950-1952. Accordingly the "electric guitar" was only about 15 years old when Jimi Hendrix recorded his first album and only 25 years old when Eddie Van Halen recorded his first album.

 

My point is that many of the "legends" of the instrument, including obviously Les himself were pushing the boundaries of a relatively new instrument. This gets harder to do as the years go by. Many guitar players (myself included) seem to be re-doing what has been done already rather than blazing new trails. I think guys like Bill Bellamy and Tom Morello are pushing the boundaries today, but I'm not sure the result will be mainstream success (ie becoming household names like some of their predecessors).

 

In summary it may be harder to impress the general public with a guitar today since so many cool things have already been done with it.

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Another thought...

 

During the age discussed here as the "Guitar Era" the electric guitar was a relatively young instrument. While there were earlier electric hollow bodies, the solid body electric guitar was not really commercially available until 1950-1952. Accordingly the "electric guitar" was only about 15 years old when Jimi Hendrix recorded his first album and only 25 years old when Eddie Van Halen recorded his first album.

 

My point is that many of the "legends" of the instrument, including obviously Les himself were pushing the boundaries of a relatively new instrument. This gets harder to do as the years go by. Many guitar players (myself included) seem to be re-doing what has been done already rather than blazing new trails. I think guys like Bill Bellamy and Tom Morello are pushing the boundaries today, but I'm not sure the result will be mainstream success (ie becoming household names like some of their predecessors).

 

In summary it may be harder to impress the general public with a guitar today since so many cool things have already been done with it.

Yeah I can go with that [thumbup]

 

Someone would really need to as you say push the boundaries and do something totally new.. and it may yet happen.. :)

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That's what I've said on this thread all along, from the first reply.

 

We are all guilty of making comparisons to previous guitar players. Sometimes we ask of a new guitar player who does he play like rather than what does he play like?

 

Nashville is such a micro-cosmos that I just do my own thing and right now I am happy with the new music I am discovering.

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Watch any one of the Crossroads Guitar Festivals, DVDs or on you tube, there are lots of hero's out there now it's just that there are no more record companies willing to risk the cost of studio time and all the other expenses to make what may not return them any money. I would suggest that you invest in the music that interest's you by buying the CD's or Downloading the the artists that you like and thus helping them keep on making music. The world has changed, artists are no longer supported until they can earn their way. Now it has to be done by word of mouth.

We have the ability to make the next Guitar Hero, but it won't be done on a chart it will be done through social media.

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I think I would have been better understood if I had said "The Golden Age" of guitar, rather than "Guitar Era". Anyhow, I do support musicians, I always pay for their music and when I go out to see local bands I usually buy their CD even if I think they stink (I have stacks of those CD's).

 

I think generally people on the board are saying "who gives a rip about the general public and what is popular". The issue I have is that if it were not for the general public appreciating guys like Les Paul thru EVH, we wouldn't be where we are at today. Gibson would not be where it is if there were no Guitar Golden Age (as I will refer to it from here on out).

 

As it has been stated by many, greed wrecked it. Baseball had a golden age, ruined by steroids, greedy owners, etc. Music's 'steroid' was MTV and the media. I personally think there needs to be an effort on behalf of the music industry to shift things. Maybe there is an effort that I am unaware of...if there isn't...let's start it...:)

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I think I would have been better understood if I had said "The Golden Age" of guitar, rather than "Guitar Era". Anyhow, I do support musicians, I always pay for their music and when I go out to see local bands I usually buy their CD even if I think they stink (I have stacks of those CD's).

 

I think generally people on the board are saying "who gives a rip about the general public and what is popular". The issue I have is that if it were not for the general public appreciating guys like Les Paul thru EVH, we wouldn't be where we are at today. Gibson would not be where it is if there were no Guitar Golden Age (as I will refer to it from here on out).

 

As it has been stated by many, greed wrecked it. Baseball had a golden age, ruined by steroids, greedy owners, etc. Music's 'steroid' was MTV and the media. I personally think there needs to be an effort on behalf of the music industry to shift things. Maybe there is an effort that I am unaware of...if there isn't...let's start it...:)

Lol.. the only golden age at the moment is one of advertising and media...

 

Im not sure it will last much longer... People seem to be getting fed up with it already.. all of the promises of a perfect life all the fakeness and how fickle everything is... and apart from that the modern day business model that large corporations use doesn't seem to work, its way too short sighted and seems to rely on instant profit whatever it takes. It cant really go on like this much longer can it?

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Lol.. the only golden age at the moment is one of advertising and media...

 

Im not sure it will last much longer... People seem to be getting fed up with it already.. all of the promises of a perfect life all the fakeness and how fickle everything is... and apart from that the modern day business model that large corporations use doesn't seem to work, its way too short sighted and seems to rely on instant profit whatever it takes. It cant really go on like this much longer can it?

 

Tough to say because I do believe people are sick of the media but the musical side of it isn't really thought of. It is easier to meet the media requirement, which is- 3 minutes song pumped out with a short shelf life. Do to this all the producer needs is a keyboard and a singer. They can sample every instrument and have the singer (who often needs help to cover voice weaknesses) sing redundant lines for 2 minutes and there you have it.

 

The 'effort' now goes into the stage show, video and the work of the publicist to perpetuate the supposed 'talent'.

 

While many say 'who cares, you can find what you like elsewhere'...yes you can, but music is still somewhat harmed. It's harmed because it keeps getting put into a corner that is getting smaller and smaller.

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Rabs...

 

Believe me, I meant no disrespect of any musician, Slash or anyone else, who works with a good work ethic.

 

My point was rather that we no longer have the concentration of media in a relative few radio and television stations that could make an artist, band or tune famous across all subcultural and age divides the way that it could happen through the 1960s and probably through the 1970s.

 

That loss also, IMHO, is why given musicians lack the recognition by the general public. Ain't talent, genre, style or skill, but a matter of how "we" have options to hear music of any type.

 

In the '50s, for example, one heard lots of popular music on network television in the U.S.; that went on into the '60s. The '70s brought far more staging and much of the music became more complex and "staged" as opposed to a bunch of guys getting on stage to play a gig. The Beatle movies expanded greatly on earlier movies about musicians and helped to set the stage for a bit of a significant increase in video representations of music that had begun in the 1930s with sound films.

 

The 80s and the rise of cable television began a splintering of the music audience that continues to today.

 

Yeah, it'd be correct to say that the electric guitar was new in the '50s in terms of being generally available, ditto affordable amplification thanks to an ongoing postwar tube radio business coasting on wartime production.

 

On the other hand, that burst of technology for guitar came also with the functional birth of television and the death of live radio programming. So the available media were disk jockeys of various music genres and a few television stations and (teen exploitation) movies playing at drive-in movies (passion pits, they were called).

 

Now? Yeah, electric guitars are old hat. Yeah to increased stage show popularity compared to a band standing up and playing.

 

But note that guitar sales are still doing pretty well and the choices and quality at any given price point are incredible compared to what I saw available as a teen and twenty-something.

 

Then again, how many recall when the idea of personal computers, digital photography, let alone the internet and personal recording, were just dreams? I've taken photos for publication with my telephone, for heaven's sake. "Desktop publishing" is now so common as to be passe. Etc., etc., Etc.

 

We're in a world now where personal creativity has far more options that allow the unskilled lesser talent to do their own "take" on what once was the domain only of those with significant money behind them.

 

Guitar era? I think if anything we may be in an expanding general public playing potential, but with less emphasis on achievement up to one's own potential. Given the doubled population and great opportunity, yeah, there's at least twice the talent playing twice the guitars, but being heard through a thousand times more media options which means... fewer of us hear many good 'uns.

 

m

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Well, technology certainly does allow for the less talented,

to sound more talented, than they are! In the "Good old days"

you lived and died, by your "Live" show. Even before you got

to, or were allowed into, a recording studio.

 

Now, you can do anything, in your own bedroom/living room studio.

With more tracks, than we could have ever imagined. And, with all

the samplings, and pitch corrections available, the "screaming cat,"

"fingernails on the chalk board," sounds like Pavarotti, once it's

"filtered" through technology. [unsure] Put out the resulting

"Masterpiece" on Youtube, and you're off and running. [lol]

 

CB

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Milod,

 

Yes, I have a friend who is a lead singer in a very popular band and his contention is that because music and equipment is more accessible that music benefits and that music today is better then ever. Of course, he records on a major label so he will say that :)

 

I personally think it's worse because it's easier. Because if it's easier 'here', it's easier everywhere. I think that great music comes from way deep down. The poor musician back in the day who played the same guitar strings for a year had much more to say, and far less diversions to pull him away.

 

I just think when things are easy, they sound easy. There is a tad less sincerity out there right now. When Dylan strummed and sang, it meant more than anyone doing that nowadays.

 

Your point about there being more outlets out there is exactly right.

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I Do agree, there's too much "Cookie Cutter" Pop and Country (especially),

these days. Too much over-produced product, that sounds "perfect," but is

soulless, and specifically targeted! But, that's "Money, money, money...MONEY!" :rolleyes: :unsure:

 

CB

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I Do agree, there's too much "Cookie Cutter" Pop and Country (especially),

these days. Too much over-produced product, that sounds "perfect," but is

soulless, and specifically targeted! But, that's "Money, money, money...MONEY!" :rolleyes: :unsure:

 

CB

 

Yes, but I hope that a culture would spend their money on sincerity and something more meaningful. That is the crux of the issue- that people do not appreciate it any longer. It's almost like it takes a depression or war to make people leave superficiality.

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Surreal...

 

Now we're talking less about specific skills, or even techniques, but rather into the subtleties of what constitutes artistic creativity and how do our own aesthetics come into play into that which we find appealing as art.

 

I think there's more skill and talent at play today on guitar, but with a degree of decreasing opportunity for groundbreaking individual technique.

 

Chuck Berry and Link Wray were pretty groundbreaking on guitar but the skills involved were pretty basic and doggone nearly every semi-skilled picker was copying what they did - and sometimes with better skills and arguably greater talent.

 

A look back at some of the fingerpickers considered "incredible" in the '60s are being surpassed by hundreds, perhaps thousands of guitar players today - and yet the breaking of ground in that sort of fingerpicking was itself a burst of creativity.

 

I figured even "way back when," that Dylan wasn't all that great a guitar player regardless that he was an artist of exceptional talent, for example.

 

I'll add this... there ain't nothin' wrong with a musician wanting to make money at his craft, and realizing that certain performance styles will and others won't fit the marketplace.

 

m

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Surreal...

 

Now we're talking less about specific skills, or even techniques, but rather into the subtleties of what constitutes artistic creativity and how do our own aesthetics come into play into that which we find appealing as art.

 

I think there's more skill and talent at play today on guitar, but with a degree of decreasing opportunity for groundbreaking individual technique.

 

Chuck Berry and Link Wray were pretty groundbreaking on guitar but the skills involved were pretty basic and doggone nearly every semi-skilled picker was copying what they did - and sometimes with better skills and arguably greater talent.

 

A look back at some of the fingerpickers considered "incredible" in the '60s are being surpassed by hundreds, perhaps thousands of guitar players today - and yet the breaking of ground in that sort of fingerpicking was itself a burst of creativity.

 

I figured even "way back when," that Dylan wasn't all that great a guitar player regardless that he was an artist of exceptional talent, for example.

 

m

 

I agree 100%. Technically speaking today is much better. I have never disputed that and most likely was not clear enough earlier. But we all know technique needs sincerity and 'depth' to be truly great (if great is the right word). I think we could all agree that Hendrix was as passionate and as true as you could be, yet 'technically' was not the best.

 

Technique rarely matters to John Doe. It most likely shouldn't.

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Yes, but I hope that a culture would spend their money on sincerity and something more meaningful. That is the crux of the issue- that people do not appreciate it any longer. It's almost like it takes a depression or war to make people leave superficiality.

 

Well, that's a pretty "General" and somewhat arrogant statement, to make, don't you think?

 

I think people DO appreciate it, but maybe not as (seemingly) concentrated, or obvious as

was the case, before, for all the reasons already expressed. Complacency is not limited to

music.

 

Great music, and great art, are often born from great challenge. Be it War, or Social

upheaval, or personal challenges. But, some great "love songs" and more positive

instrumental melodies, have been written in times of less challenging circumstances.

And, of course, a lot of this is personal, to begin with. What YOU like, as opposed

to what other's do. Those that hate "Silly Love Songs," will think that era, or style

is vapid, and vacuous, because it's not what they like. Others, that love it, will

embrace the era/style, wholeheartedly.

 

It really just comes down to personal preferences, more than anything. And, too often,

our own hubris. [biggrin] IMHO, as always.

 

CB

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Well, that's a pretty "General" and somewhat arrogant statement, to make, don't you think?

 

I think people DO appreciate it, but maybe not as (seemingly) concentrated, or obvious as

was the case, before, for all the reasons already expressed. Complacency is not limited to

music.

 

Great music, and great art, are often born from great challenge. Be it War, or Social

upheaval, or personal challenges. But, some great "love songs" and more positive

instrumental melodies, have been written in times of less challenging circumstances.

And, of course, a lot of this is personal, to begin with. What YOU like, as opposed

to what other's do. Those that hate "Silly Love Songs," will think that era, or style

is vapid, and vacuous, because it's not what they like. Others, that love it, will

embrace the era/style, wholeheartedly.

 

It really just comes down to personal preferences, more than anything. And, too often,

our own hubris. [biggrin] IMHO, as always.

 

CB

 

 

I don't see arrogance in it. I'm not talking really about 'likes' as though I am saying the 'tone' I like is better than your 'tone'. I've got nothing against love songs. I think this generation is a fan of different things, the numbers and sales say so. If today's John Doe said his side, then would he be arrogant?

 

You yourself said modern trends are about money. That would offend my 16 year old neighbor who says Katy Perry is more talented than the Beatles.

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I'll agree that there is a significant difference in culture among today's teens and 20s compared to prior generations raised without cell phones, texting, etc. - and in reference to girls and even "gay" subcultures, since Title 9.

 

Beginning around age 10 we leave mommie and/or daddie in our heads, and adapt ourselves into the big world around us that initially includes media and other kids our age while "old people" age 12 and above are part of our peer group commentary.

 

That doesn't mean that "we" don't learn beyond those initial steps toward general socialization, but rather that those first few years are critical in a number of ways for one to perceive "life."

 

Frankly I think there's been all kinds of good material put forth in the recorded music era, but I doubt most were as appreciated even by their creators at the point of creation as by a test of time and longevity.

 

I'm still playing material written in the 1870s - and sometimes in two or three different current genres.

 

I doubt Beethoven knew Moonlight would last far longer in general circulation than his string quartets.

 

Life's interesting; ditto changes in taste.

 

I will say that comments I've seen from the younger set on this forum that they're as interested in producing music up to their skill level and with sufficient depth to be "art" as well as simply entertaining, as any of us older guys.

 

OTOH, sometimes I think "we" older guys may be scaring off the "kids" by what may be perceived as a "those old guys think they know it all with their old-fashioned ideas of who and what have good music." Not all the time, but I might imagine it having some impact.

 

m

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