blindboygrunt Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I didnt want to take over the various threads about humidifying issues. Here in Ireland its not really an issue. I have never seen a humidifier nor know anyone that owns one.But I'm wondering about it all from the point of view of touring musicians. Obviously Willie nelsons trigger is treated like royalty in its delicate state. But say Springsteen's takamine , or the like . Basically anyone who tours with a guitar and is at the level where they have people looking after their instruments. Will they have humidifiers and dehumidifiers accordingly? If he's touring the states he's going to be going from humidity level to humidity level. Will it not matter in such a short stay ? Does he just throw the takamine in the bin after a tour and get another for the next one? Quite a few here are collectors with delicate and very valuable instruments. They should be treated with care , but some of this care and attention seeps into the minds of part time musicians and bedroom guitarists like myself. I'm not out to prove anyone wrong for what they do or don't do . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I've come to the conclusion, after hearing a lot of knowledgeable folks here tout humidifying, that newer instrument owners might have a good reason for keeping their fresh wood stabilized over years of ownership. For me, who owns only guitars that came to my hands after decades of who knows what kind of care, I assume the guitars I own have been through the dry/moist cycle mill all their lives, and it might not be good for them to begin absorbing and shedding moisture at my hand after such a long period of stabilization. They're probably overly dried tonewoods that have found their 'ideal' condition for longevity. I actually believe I could create problems by forcing moisture. The natural pace of day to day atmospheric changes is just right for slow, non-damaging changes to my old guitars, along with a couple of common sense rules I adhere to involving sudden changes in temp/moisture. I believe that all guitars are OK with natural weather cycles, but I've stopped telling humidifier nerds that they're wasting time and money when the topic comes up here. I was going to list all the old gits I've owned (and sorely miss) in my forum signature and compile a photo album to share, but haven't gotten to it yet. Also, I fear it may bore all my guitar bro's here. They all did well under my roof without environmental coaxing, but I've lately been flirting with the idea of shopping for a new or newish Martin 000 to compliment my Gibson voices, and perhaps I would revisit humidifying with fresh spruce in the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 Cheers jed ,your attitude to all this is similar to mine , but its not really the question I was asking. I use a phone to post here and with the limited screen space and my poor communication Itll be my fault . My car that takes me to work doent need a service every time I use it. A professional drivers car would. Where , in the outside world of touring musicians and not forums , does the theory of humidifying guitars lie ? Is it common practice ? And as I said in the first post , let's take neil Young's d28 and the like to be on a level all of their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 They would generally save the vintage guitars for recording and home use and tour with something replaceable like a stock standard J45 /D18 D28. Hire/buy, then flog it to a mug at the end of the tour. Some stage lights are like cookers and could cause all kinds of problems. BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 but I've lately been flirting with the idea of shopping for a new or newish Martin 000 to compliment my Gibson voices Aren't the standard 000 nuts a bit skinny? I know your downloading is a bit ordinary, JZ, but try and listen to this OM18v of John Miller's: http://www.guitarvideos.com/products/guitar-workshop-instructional-dvds/country-blues-guitar-in-spanish-vestapol-tunings and his OM28H: http://www.guitarvideos.com/products/instructors/john-miller/the-guitar-of-bo-carter Great player that extracts the best of the Martin tone.... BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 They would generally save the vintage guitars for recording and home use and tour with something replaceable like a stock standard J45 /D18 D28. Hire/buy, then flog it to a mug at the end of the tour. Some stage lights are like cookers and could cause all kinds of problems. BluesKing777. Youre closer to what I'm getting at. No guitar in a house is going to come close to the extremes of a toured guitar. And if they survive then ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Youre closer to what I'm getting at. No guitar in a house is going to come close to the extremes of a toured guitar. And if they survive then ...... Depends on the guitarist, too. I saw Stefan Grossman a while back and he was doing an 'easy, laid back tour' with his Martin in a Blues Reunion Backpack - off he went to the hotel after the gig. But a J45 in the back of a van? Wow. BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Thanks for the samples, BK...I'll take a listen after work. You're right about that string spacing, something I forgot about, especially since I'm so comfortable with the inch and 3/4 width I'm playing now. I'll probably end up staying with a pre-63 anyway, which should be inch and 11/16. Either will run at least 3 grand so it'll be awhile. There's time to check things out. I'm an hour and a half from the nearest shop that carries Gibsons and Martins. I see what you're getting at BBG. How nice it must be to have enough instruments to shuffle like a deck of cards! My dad had a little jazz combo in the 40's and beyond. He told me the huge stand up bass they traveled with rode strapped to the side sitting on the running board; rain, shine, or worse. I never asked him if their bass player had fits keeping it tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 A little too much / not enough humidity isn't gonna have much effect on Trigger. Just sayin'........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Morton Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 A guitar that is moving from venue to venue and through environmental changes is going be affected by the different humidity levels. many artists do not humidify their guitars properly and many do. Leo Kottke for example has several saddles that he has on hand so he can adapt to the needs of the guitar depending on what it is doing. Humid with a top that has risen/ a lower saddle. Drier with a top that has sunk a bit/ taller saddle etc. I have also seen guitars that were on cruise ship tours for 1 or 2 months where there is an abundance of humidity. When the guitar goes back home if it is really dry the outcome is not good. Big swings in temp and humidity as we all know are bad for guitars. JM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 Thanks Jeremy , you're getting my point. So , just like here , theres a split between those that do and those that dont ? I'm sure that the more attached to a guitar any person , be they world famous or not, the more they worry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 [snip] I believe that all guitars are OK with natural weather cycles, but I've stopped telling humidifier nerds that they're wasting time and money when the topic comes up here. [snip] This is just flat out wrong. You may be able to ignore humidity with your guitars in your home at your geographical location, but that doesn't mean there aren't many situations where that won't work at all. Frankly, you don't know what you are talking about and should stop misleading people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 This is just flat out wrong. You may be able to ignore humidity with your guitars in your home at your geographical location, but that doesn't mean there aren't many situations where that won't work at all. Frankly, you don't know what you are talking about and should stop misleading people. The original post was , maybe badly, worded as - never mind about people who live in Arizona , nor own a pretty war relic. ... Just plain old ordinary guitars . Do humidifiers matter. Anyone with an ounce of sense would realise that if you live in a desert then you need to humidify Good grief Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 The original post was , maybe badly, worded as - never mind about people who live in Arizona , nor own a pretty war relic. ... Just plain old ordinary guitars . Do humidifiers matter. Anyone with an ounce of sense would realise that if you live in a desert then you need to humidify Good grief Not just Arizona. Hogeye tells me humidity in his house in Bozeman can be 15% for weeks on end. He keeps all except one in case with humidifier and has to monitor them. Any place that gets quite cold and is heated can become a desert, don't kid yourself. The only thing to do is get a device to measure your conditions and take appropriate action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I recently interviewed Jack Johnson for an upcoming cover story for Fretboard Journal (a very fun interview done while wandering NYC's Central Park and accompanying Jack and band to the Colbert Report). Jack pulled out his Pepe Romero classical to show me and discovered a new, big crack. "Touring can do this," he said. Wood is a porous material. It doesn't dry out over time; it takes on the humidity of its surrounding environment. Whether its a brand new guitar or 500 year old violin, given time in an environment with X% humidity, the wood will exhibit X% moisture. Change that % quickly and the thing will crack. Regardless of how quickly the humidity changes, if dry enough, the thing will crack. Ask any luthier who repairs vintage instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 This is just flat out wrong. You may be able to ignore humidity with your guitars in your home at your geographical location, but that doesn't mean there aren't many situations where that won't work at all. Frankly, you don't know what you are talking about and should stop misleading people. Thanks for the kind words. I said that there are guitars that could benefit from controlled environments. You just paraphrased that statement. Very high humidity does take the punch out of my acoustic's tone, but AC solves that issue. My house is also bone dry, 15-20% rh all winter, and the sound quality of my old guitars is at it's peak. However, for many years I didn't have AC and let the weather work through the house. Still had old guitars that never developed major issues. Humidifying guitars is a very new concept in the timeline of the existence of stringed instruments, yet many old ones live on through the ages. I suspect anyone with any smarts reading that lil' ol' me says fussing with guitar humidifiers is wasting time, wouldn't just take my word as authority on the topic. Nevertheless, there's a ton of fine instruments that simply have to be kept from enduring drastic environmental changes, and they stay intact for lifetimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 I recently interviewed Jack Johnson for an upcoming cover story for Fretboard Journal (a very fun interview done while wandering NYC's Central Park and accompanying Jack and band to the Colbert Report). Jack pulled out his Pepe Romero classical to show me and discovered a new, big crack. "Touring can do this," he said. Wood is a porous material. It doesn't dry out over time; it takes on the humidity of its surrounding environment. Whether its a brand new guitar or 500 year old violin, given time in an environment with X% humidity, the wood will exhibit X% moisture. Change that % quickly and the thing will crack. Regardless of how quickly the humidity changes, if dry enough, the thing will crack. Ask any luthier who repairs vintage instruments. There ya go! I should've known you'd be the man to know. Jack Johnson is a good example of what was in my mind. And doesn't humidify. You think he does now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Why do you stir up trouble BBG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 Why do you stir up trouble BBG? Why you say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 There ya go! I should've known you'd be the man to know. Jack Johnson is a good example of what was in my mind. And doesn't humidify. You think he does now? I'm not sure. I'll ask him. But, he's not a guy who worries much about this stuff. It is clear, though, that he should humidify his guitars. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul E Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I truly understand the humidity issue with guitars but how pray tell did the violins and other stringed instruments say from the 17th century survive without humidification ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I truly understand the humidity issue with guitars but how pray tell did the violins and other stringed instruments say from the 17th century survive without humidification ? Most of them are riddled with cracks and have had a lot of work done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 I'm not sure. I'll ask him. But, he's not a guy who worries much about this stuff. It is clear, though, that he should humidify his guitars. :) Haha , was being hypothetical jt. Well semi . jack's a successful guy , can I take it from his lack of humidifiers , that it's normal in the industry not to worry ? To humidify or not is an individual choice. This topic is not to see if it makes sense to do it or not. I'm casual about it , but if I ever move to a super dry climate then I'll buy a humidifier. There are people who are humidifying unnecessarily though. Because they read forums. There are people with a draw full of $50 plectrums that can't play. None of my business , I'm still trying to ascertain if humidifying is a trick of the trade that the common man isn't aware of , or an admiral example of a high level of care. My uncle washed and polished his car routinely , kept it immaculate . would've got a cloth out for birdshit the minute he got home. Then he crashed it . did he waste all that time polishing the car ? Opinions are going to vary. Same with humidifiers ... Not asking should I or shouldn't I Thanks for the input guys. And Jed , I'm not stirring . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I was poking fun BBG...but clearly, I will, in the future, have to include a caveat that heeding my opinion could lead to great harm to person and property. I will refer my comments to Jerry for approval. He seems to have the gravitas necessary for monitoring forum member input and opinion. I love it. I have to run. Humidity in my guitar room has dropped to 19% which triggers the alarm and sprinkler system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 I was poking fun BBG...but clearly, I will, in the future, have to include a caveat that heeding my opinion could lead to great harm to person and property. I will refer my comments to Jerry for approval. He seems to have the gravitas necessary for monitoring forum member input and opinion. I love it. I have to run. Humidity in my guitar room has dropped to 19% which triggers the alarm and sprinkler system. Lol. Good luck with that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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