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Hot Hide Glue on CS models

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I hear mix things from various people. Mt new J45 Koa Limited Custom Shop reference Hot hide glue construction on the dovetail neck joint. I was told today by a 5 star Gibson dealer that all custom shop models use hide glue throughout. Is this true?

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I think the Legend series guitars are the only ones made entirely (or mostly) with hide glue.

 

Gibson acoustics usually have hide glued neck joints to make future resets easy. Some special models like the True Vintage series and some custom shop models have hide glued top braces, as well. Titebond wood glue (the yellow resin type, I THINK) is usually used to glue everything else.

 

Red 333

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... I was told today by a 5 star Gibson dealer that all custom shop models use hide glue throughout. Is this true?

No. As Red already said, all the Bozeman guitars have hide glued neck joints, and some also have hide glued top braces -- enough so that electric glue pots were added at the brace gluing stations a couple of years ago -- but that's it, with rare exceptions. Nothing is currently being built with all hide glue.

 

-- Bob R

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Although I'm lucky if I hear my wife when she's talking to me, I think the hide glue does help the sound.

My recent J185 New Vintage has all hide glue and it's the best sounding maple guitar I've played to date.

I've owned four different maple guitars and played a few more.

Maybe just a coincidence?

When JT released his CD last year and asked for feedback I picked one track that I liked the guitar sound better than the others.

It was laminated maple.

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My SJTV has hide-glue throughout supposedly. Everywhere. Or that's what I understand from Russo's - it was a one-off. To be honest I am pretty sure I couldn't tell the difference anyway. And I wouldn't even know how to verify it.

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My SJTV has hide-glue throughout supposedly. Everywhere. Or that's what I understand from Russo's - it was a one-off. To be honest I am pretty sure I couldn't tell the difference anyway. And I wouldn't even know how to verify it.

At around a tablespoon of glue being used for the entire guitar I think most people would be hard pressed to tell a difference.

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At around a tablespoon of glue being used for the entire guitar I think most people would be hard pressed to tell a difference.

 

 

A bit more than a tablespoon, if you add it all up. Of course, a lot of it gets squeezed out and wiped off

 

"Only a Gibson is glued enough".

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A bit more than a tablespoon, if you add it all up. Of course, a lot of it gets squeezed out and wiped off

 

"Only a Gibson is glued enough".

Well maybe a bit more but not much.

 

Like you say a lot gets squeezed out and/or wiped off.

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I had some conflicting information about the hide glue used on these new 1935 AJ limited edition and the 1934 Jumbo. I contacted Gibson Montana and according to them, both guitars are done with all hide glue construction.

I guess given the list price they are like the Legend series. I have now both models and both are amazing instruments. Of course it's the sum of things, but the hide glue is for sure the icing on the cake.The Gibson website was never correct or up-to date. For example the website states "cloth stays" on the 1935 AJ, it actually has Spruce stays on the sides and there are some other details which are not correct on their site.

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Apart from the added bonus of being able to remove for neck resets , which is really a luthiers problem , surely its simply a nice touch of tradition (which i am all for),and not much else. The difference in sound in a guitar due to which type of glue is used is surely negligible. I find it hard to believe it is going to matter.

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Apart from the added bonus of being able to remove for neck resets , which is really a luthiers problem , surely its simply a nice touch of tradition (which i am all for),and not much else. The difference in sound in a guitar due to which type of glue is used is surely negligible. I find it hard to believe it is going to matter.

 

There are debates about this within the luthiers as well. Some feel it has quite some impact in tone other not. The preparation of the parts must be more precise compared to white glue, since with HHG one cannot move the parts around. I think we will never know for sure, since every guitar is different. But I have now 3 guitars made of HHG, a Martin Authentic and two Gibson's, they are outstanding instruments and I am a believer of HHG.

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There are debates about this within the luthiers as well. Some feel it has quite some impact in tone other not. The preparation of the parts must be more precise compared to white glue, since with HHG one cannot move the parts around. I think we will never know for sure, since every guitar is different. But I have now 3 guitars made of HHG, a Martin Authentic and two Gibson's, they are outstanding instruments and I am a believer of HHG.

 

Well , if you say that theres more preparation involved when using the hide glue , maybe thats the answer to the better tone ?

 

Not arguing here , just pondering.

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Apart from the added bonus of being able to remove for neck resets , which is really a luthiers problem , surely its simply a nice touch of tradition (which i am all for),and not much else.

 

Outside of guitar forums I count anyone has ever uttered the words "wow, listen to the sound of that hot hide glue". They simply haven't… Will modern glues render the guitar master a toneless amateur? No… Will jimmy cripple-fingers suddenly be an acoustic Jimi Hendrix due to it? No… At best, it's most valuable attribute is its nod to traditions etc… Anyone claiming to hear hide glue from a guitar needs to have a word with themselves. Outside of specs geek circles can any advantage be substantiated or quantified? No…

 

Obviously from an arguing standpoint luthiers using hide glue and up charging accordingly are hardly going to say it has no effect are they? Because someone does a job we admire are we going to say they're all suddenly free of money oriented motivations? Clearly not…

 

The difference in sound in a guitar due to which type of glue is used is surely negligible. I find it hard to believe it is going to matter.

 

I'm with ye… I'd even say it was beyond negligible… in fact I'm more convinced that Elvis will ring my door bell and ride through my living room on the back of Margaret Thatcher while she's pretending to be a horse at 18:16pm this evening than I am of anyone ever hearing 'hot glue' from a guitar in a blind test.

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Outside of guitar forums I count anyone has ever uttered the words "wow, listen to the sound of that hot hide glue". They simply haven't… Will modern glues render the guitar master a toneless amateur? No… Will jimmy cripple-fingers suddenly be an acoustic Jimi Hendrix due to it? No… At best, it's most valuable attribute is its nod to traditions etc… Anyone claiming to hear hide glue from a guitar needs to have a word with themselves. Outside of specs geek circles can any advantage be substantiated or quantified? No…

 

Obviously from an arguing standpoint luthiers using hide glue and up charging accordingly are hardly going to say it has no effect are they? Because someone does a job we admire are we going to say they're all suddenly free of money oriented motivations? Clearly not…

 

 

 

I'm with ye… I'd even say it was beyond negligible… in fact I'm more convinced that Elvis will ring my door bell and ride through my living room on the back of Margaret Thatcher while she's pretending to be a horse at 18:16pm this evening than I am of anyone ever hearing 'hot glue' from a guitar in a blind test.

 

Just in case .... Would you get me his autograph and kick her arse if they arrive.

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Just in case .... Would you get me his autograph and kick her arse if they arrive.

 

Well, I was indeed planning more for action than conversation… but, I'll try to keep ye in mind.

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I've heard for years that hide glue improves the sound. Personally, I don't have a clue, but I would like to know. Does anyone have a definitive answer?

 

Not a definitive answer, but I have an all hide glue Hummingbird VOS LTD. I don't think it makes a difference compared to other TV Hummingbirds. There are other variables that make a bigger difference.

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Only on forums do we agonize about this stuff. The only way to determine if anything makes a difference is through "blind" testing.

 

I just too easy to trick the ears and your mind into believing that something is better. I be willing to bet that if you made two guitars as close as possible from the same wood from the same tree etc. and the only difference was the glue, most, including myself would be hard pressed to tell the difference without knowing first.

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I spoke on the phone about a week ago with Jeremy Fuller and by chance asked him if an all hide glued guitar made a difference and he said no

that the only critical places where it made a difference was at the neck joint and on the top braces .

 

Here's Ren Ferguson talking about hide glue a bit :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

JC

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I spoke on the phone about a week ago with Jeremy Fuller and by chance asked him if an all hide glued guitar made a difference and he said no

that the only critical places where it made a difference was at the neck joint and on the top braces .

 

 

I talked to Jeremy about it as well when I bought one of their 1943 SJ re-issues. He said the upcharge for all-hide glue construction just wasn't worth it, to his mind, so they put their money towards other details, like an Adi top. As it is, their '43 SJ is a great-sounding guitar, and it's hard to imagine that a bit more hide glue would have made it noticeably better.

 

The fact that my L-OO Legend is all-hide glue is a plus, just for authenticity of build, but I doubt if it adds much if anything tonally.

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I have played sal's sjtv all hide glue and played about 10 others that were just hide glue neck and it makes a difference in the tone. The glue dries almost on contact so it's much harder to work with and dries solid as the wood and because of that it ads a different tone to the guitar that it is applied too. Also played the 34 all hide glue and sounds awesome play a guitar with hide glue and you will see why hide glue is a nice option. Also all Gibson necks are done with it just when it's attached to body.

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I have played sal's sjtv all hide glue and played about 10 others that were just hide glue neck and it makes a difference in the tone. The glue dries almost on contact so it's much harder to work with and dries solid as the wood and because of that it ads a different tone to the guitar that it is applied too. Also played the 34 all hide glue and sounds awesome play a guitar with hide glue and you will see why hide glue is a nice option. Also all Gibson necks are done with it just when it's attached to body.

 

Can that be substantiated or even quantified with clips? ....or is it another mystical 'feel' thing?

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Can that be substantiated or even quantified with clips? ....or is it another mystical 'feel' thing?

No just my opinion and we all know how that goes. Every one hears something different in different guitars. As with the one I am talking about I did not intend to like that guitar but keep coming back to it because to my ear it sounded better. Play them all and make the decision for yourself.

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No just my opinion and we all know how that goes. Every one hears something different in different guitars. As with the one I am talking about I did not intend to like that guitar but keep coming back to it because to my ear it sounded better. Play them all and make the decision for yourself.

 

It would have been interesting if you didn't know it was hide glue before playing it and compared it to another similar Gibson. I think the mind can "color" what I ears hear. [wink]

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No just my opinion and we all know how that goes. Every one hears something different in different guitars. As with the one I am talking about I did not intend to like that guitar but keep coming back to it because to my ear it sounded better. Play them all and make the decision for yourself.

 

No, I wasn't having a dig... I've seen some people they could hear it, others say they can't... I'd place myself in the group who believes can't, so I'm keen to see how those who claim to hear it can justify/communicate it.... beyond the ultimate disclaimer 'its a feel thing' to which I would instantly retort that it was a 'mind thing' if you asked me.

 

I dont believe people who can hear it based on what it says in the specs sheet. or those hearing with their eyes after inspecting it for tell take signs. I guess I'm saying I'm not even remotely convinced a blind test could identify glue types between 2 models of the same guitar. Even pointing that out to someone will often arn you a "oh well, all guitars are different" which adds little to the conversation.

 

Time and time again blind tests have proved almost all of us can't tell one from the other even with reasonably significant specs differences, so it leaves me with the impression that the main 'value' associated to a wholly hide glue construction would be its nod to traditional building techniques. I mean if nobody can hear it in blind tests and the best of technology can't capture it, is it actually there, is the 'betterness' people are hearing some psychological hocus-pocus based around what was spent?

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