bigtim Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I just got a new to me 2009 SG standard with the burstbucker split coil combo in the neck and bridge. How many of you guys have this combo and how do you like it? Maybe it is me and I am not used to it yet but I find the bridge pick up a bit lacking in performance. the neck pick up sounds great but when I switch to bridge position, to me it is missing that edge in performance. The other SG I had, had the 490 & 498 combo and was a 2006 model standard. I liked that combo all the way around and am thinking of going back to it. I have never tried the classic 57's in an SG. Any and all input is welcome, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardrocktyler93 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Hey man, I have the same combo with the split coils in a 2011 SG which was a guitar center exclusive. I would agree with you that I find that the bridge pickup lacks some edge. I'm thinking of swapping it out for something else myself. I also have a 2009 standard with the 498t & 490 and a '61 reissue with 57 classics. I find I like the 57 classics in the '61 reissue best. Nice and crunchy with some bite. A little bright for some people's taste but I like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgplayers Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 i agree with both of you. i have the 2011 classic white split coils burst bucker one and burst bucker three and i don't play the bridge pickup by itself. i adjusted the two to where they sound great in center position, but don't go there much. i am one of those that think the 57s are a little bright. but with the amp knobs i get what i need. the 490s on my special are my favorites though i am starting to think a little under rated. congratulations on your new S-G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Congrats on your SG, Bigtim. Guitars can be rather different, and there's a huge difference between my SG Supra and my Frank Zappa Roxy SG featuring three single conductor-wired respectively two splittable Classic '57s. It also doesn't seem to be the cover or the active electronics with a perhaps overrated "cable-simulation" capacitor of the magnetics input of the Fishman piezo circuit. However, they have one thing in common. Compared to Les Paul guitars featuring a pair of '57s, splittable or non-splittable '57/'57 plus combo, splittable Burstbuckers Pro combo, splittable Burstbucker 1 & 2 combo or splittable 496R/498T, the '57 bridge pickups in my SGs put out much less signal level than the neck or center pickups of same make. I think it is in the SG's design and construction. In contrary, my 1978 S-G Standard came with Super Humbucking tarbacks, and I fooled around with DiMarzio Super Distortion or Seymour-Duncan SH-5 "Duncan Custom" twenty-five years ago. They couldn't keep up anyway with the stock pickup, neither in tone nor level. These 1970s, Bill Lawrence-designed Gibson pickups aren't made anymore - would love them featuring coil split. They match an SG very nicely to my taste. The 490R/498T combo in my 2011 L6S guitars is great, but I think the 490T perhaps would match this guitar better. I don't care since I like the sound of Gibson's stock pickups. They all are great on principal, and I especially like the BB 1 & 2 very much, at least in a Les Paul guitar. I just apply some more gain if desired when playing my SGs, compared to Les Paul guitars featuring pickups of same make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtim Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 Thanks for all of the input so far. I got to messing around with it again today and no matter what I do to it by raising the bridge pick up or pole pieces and all, it is still lacking in performance. The neck pick up is awesome and it seems to be higher output than the bridge. I really do not split the coil configuration much at all. I am thinking of going one of 2 ways. I think I might rewire the bridge pickup pot to just where it is humbucker at all times and do away with the push pull pot. If that does not make any difference, I will try to just install a 498 bridge pick up in it. If all else fails I might try a seymour duncan in the bridge only and leave the neck with the original BB. This is the 4th gibson I have owned. My first one was a LP custom 1981 with the Tim Shaws in it and it too was lacking in the bridge position. I put EMG's 81 & 85 in it and I really like it alot. I got ahold of an explorer and it also had EMG's in it. The 2006 SG I owned had the 490 and 498 combo and to me it was the best all around configuration stock pick ups I have owned in any of the gibsons I had. I have played the BB King Lucielle signature model and it was an awesome sound all the way around. I am not sure what pick ups it had. My friend had an SG special about a 2001 model. It had some real nice stock gibson pick ups in it as well but not sure which ones they were and they were also open coil. Anyways, can someone speak up and tell me if the Burstbuckers compared to the 498 bridge position settings are the same output or is the Burstbucker more or less than the 498 when plugged into the same amp with the same settings?? Thanks in advanced again and also thanks for all of your input as well so far!! Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 The 498T should have more output than even the Burstbucker 3. There once has been a nice comparative pickup output level chart - perhaps someone will know and link it here or to the related topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Found it here: http://www.gibson.com/Files/_gear/datasheets/Pickup_Guide.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtim Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 Man you guys are awesome!! That is what I have been looking for!!! Thanks, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiamondJig Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I have a one of the split coil SG's with a BB1 in the neck and a BB3 in the bridge. The BB1 is the lowest output pickup Gibson makes and it make a great neck PU, just love it. The Bridge BB3 is hotter than the neck but I don't care for it, too brittle. I switched out the Alnico II mag for a Alnico V which improved it's performance. I don't care for the 57 in the bridge either. I've swapped out the bridge in my 61RI for an Angus Young, a great bridge pickup. I seem to like Alnico II mag's for the neck like BB3 and 57, then an Alnico V for the bridge Angus Young, 498T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjsinla Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I have a one of the split coil SG's with a BB1 in the neck and a BB3 in the bridge. The BB3 is the lowest output pickup Gibson makes and it make a great neck PU, just love it. The Bridge BB3 is hotter than the neck but I don't care for it, too brittle. I switched out the Alnico II mag for a Alnico V which improved it's performance. I don't care for the 57 in the bridge either. I've swapped out the bridge in my 61RI for an Angus Young, a great bridge pickup. I seem to like Alnico II mag's for the neck like BB3 and 57, then an Alnico V for the bridge Angus Young, 498T. According to the list posted above, the BB3 is the hottest of the three BB's. The BB1 is almost the lowest according to that same list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Zeppelin Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Found it here: http://www.gibson.com/Files/_gear/datasheets/Pickup_Guide.pdf Thanks for that chart capmaster!!! I have the '57s on my '13 SG Standard. After adjusting the bridge and pup height the outputs were nice and even. I don't notice any loss of highs or bite but then I have high pitch hearing loss. LOL Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I have a one of the split coil SG's with a BB1 in the neck and a BB3 in the bridge. The BB3 is the lowest output pickup Gibson makes and it make a great neck PU, just love it. The Bridge BB3 is hotter than the neck but I don't care for it, too brittle. I switched out the Alnico II mag for a Alnico V which improved it's performance. I don't care for the 57 in the bridge either. I've swapped out the bridge in my 61RI for an Angus Young, a great bridge pickup. I seem to like Alnico II mag's for the neck like BB3 and 57, then an Alnico V for the bridge Angus Young, 498T. According to the list posted above, the BB3 is the hottest of the three BB's. The BB1 is almost the lowest according to that same list. Was aware of that, too, but considering the context describing it as the neck pickup made me think the "3" in the second sentence is just a typing error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtim Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Well everything sounds better through a tube stack I guess. I took my new sg to a friends house and plugged into his marshall jcm 900. Well it sounded pretty good after I fooled around with the eq settings so I guess I may hold on a bit before I take the plunge into a new bridge pick up. But one thing I noticed on the pick up guide that capmaster was kind enough to post here, that the burstbucker series do not have 4 conductor leads. Now according to the specs on this split coil configuration 2009 white SG with ebony neck, it was supposed to have burstbuckers in it. According to the chart on the gibson pick up flyer, I believe the pick ups in this guitar are 490's under the modern series because of the description and also the 4 conductors to split into single coil mode. Unless they made a special set of Burstbuckers for this particular model SG that is not listed in the flyer (i do not think gibson did that) the descriptions do not add up for what was said to be in the SG I now own. Oh well, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Gibson made and I guess still makes special pickups for guitars or basses which aren't sold on the aftermarket, and in case of a Gibson bass I experienced that a currently made pickup even isn't available as a spare part. A 2011 special run Gibson USA Les Paul Quilt Top of mine positively came stock and is still featuring Burstbuckers 1 & 2 with soldered four-conductor wiring. Push/pull volume pots allow for coil split. Since of 2013, the Les Paul Standard has splittable BB 1 & 2 and no longer BB Pros. The latters have the same coils as the 1 & 2 but feature "hotter" AlNiCo 5 instead of the AlNiCo 2 magnets the other BBs use, and a thing which Gibson advertises "noise reduction" against microphonics - don't know if it's different from the waxing of the '57s. At the moment, two-conductor wired Burstbuckers come black, zebra, with gold or nickel cover, except the BB Pros coming with gold or nickel cover only. The four-conductor wired BB Pros come exclusively with chrome covers in QuickConnect configuration. In contrary, both the '57 types with four-conductor wiring and QuickConnect are made with nickel cover exclusively like they come with the Epiphone Les Paul 1960 Tribute Plus but with soldered connections there. However, my Frank Zappa "Roxy" SGs came with '57 Classics in black with soldered four-conductor wiring! My Alex Lifeson Les Paul Axcess has a splittable 496R neck pickup featuring a chrome-plated cover. When sold separately, it comes black or zebra only, without cover. I believe it's all about marketing politics somehow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtim Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 I see, so they do offer special pick up configurations for select models. I guess it makes better sense now. Mine are hard wired in and not the plug and play as well. My friend had a 2012 standard with the plug in wires and my hardwired in 2006 standard with the same pick ups which were 490 & 498. Mine sounded better and more full than his. I believe it was because he had the plug in style. I am not a fan of the plug in quick connect. It does allow for easier pick up switching but I truly believe hard wired is the way to go. Anyways I appreciate all of the input, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiamondJig Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 It's funny, in the HiFi world solder is a bad thing, Tin & lead are bad conductors of electricity, they much perfer hardwired. I just remembered one thing with the slit coils that I didn't like and changed. Gibson uses 500K audio push/pull pots in the volume position for the splits. I removed the tone pots, move the vol push/pulls to the tone position rewired them for tone while leaving the coil split function and installed 300K linear pots for volume. To me this helped the BB's sound better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 It's funny, in the HiFi world solder is a bad thing, Tin & lead are bad conductors of electricity, they much perfer hardwired. I just remembered one thing with the slit coils that I didn't like and changed. Gibson uses 500K audio push/pull pots in the volume position for the splits. I removed the tone pots, move the vol push/pulls to the tone position rewired them for tone while leaving the coil split function and installed 300K linear pots for volume. To me this helped the BB's sound better. There are both volume pot values in my arsenal. I experienced 500 kOhms volume pots eat up more treble when tweaked down while 300 kOhms volume pots slightly attenuate treble due to their load when cranked up, so all in all the latter affect the tone less than the first. No matter if it is about HiFi, recording or other audio technique, I prefer soldered connections over everything else. The effective cross-section area of a fine soldering is sufficient by far, and the current's path length through Sn, Pb and very little Cu and/or Ag respectively RoHS solder consisting of Sn and very little Cu, is very small. Transition resistances of wire-wrap or crimped connections can be more critical, on principal as well as with time and age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdude Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Since of 2013, the Les Paul Standard has splittable BB 1 & 2 and no longer BB Pros. The latters have the same coils as the 1 & 2 but feature "hotter" AlNiCo 5 instead of the AlNiCo 2 magnets the other BBs use, and a thing which Gibson advertises "noise reduction" against microphonics - don't know if it's different from the waxing of the '57s. According to Gibson, the 2013 Les Paul Standard has BB Pros: "The new Les Paul Standard’s real surprises lurk in its upgraded pickups and extremely clever wiring and control setup. A pair of BurstBucker Pro™ pickups, a #1 in the neck position and #2 in the bridge, follow the blueprint for Gibson’s hallowed PAF humbuckers of the late ’50s, but are updated with potted coils for howl-free performance at high volumes, and four-conductor wiring that allows for incredible versatility." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I'll tell ya, its a bit misleading this year. I don't see where there are any new pick-ups, just new names for the old? http://store.gibson.com/pickups-and-electronics/ BUT The Traditional states it has "New ’59 Tribute humbuckers" the SGJ has 61 humbuckers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 According to Gibson, the 2013 Les Paul Standard has BB Pros: "The new Les Paul Standard’s real surprises lurk in its upgraded pickups and extremely clever wiring and control setup. A pair of BurstBucker Pro™ pickups, a #1 in the neck position and #2 in the bridge, follow the blueprint for Gibson’s hallowed PAF humbuckers of the late ’50s, but are updated with potted coils for howl-free performance at high volumes, and four-conductor wiring that allows for incredible versatility." This is an odd thing. When reading the first passage on this webpage: http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/Les-Paul-Standard.aspx they say BurstBucker Pro 1 & 2, but the third passage just says BurstBucker Pro without a number. Up to now, the BB Pros were never mentioned as 1 & 2 but neck and bridge. So maybe I was mislead since to my knowledge the BB Pro neck PU comes with the BB 1 coils, the BB Pro bridge PU comes with the BB 2 coils and reverse wound, either come with "noise reduction" instead of being unwaxed as the BBs 1 & 2 are, and either come with AlNiCo 5 instead of AlNiCo 2, with reversed polarity for the bridge model providing humbucking single coil operation when in parallel with the neck pickup with both PUs splitted. There's a Specifications section missing on the LP Std 2013 webpage which was part of the former LP Std 2012 webpage, at least before I bought mine. So no offense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtim Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 A few days ago I purchased a 498T bridge pick up that has 4 conductor wires. I took the burstbucker 3 out of this 2009 standard I bought and put it in tonight. WOW what a difference in sound all the way around. Like I stated the BB 3 was just too trebley and shrill(best I can describe it) with hardley any bottom end. Now it has that great midrange bite like the other SG I had. This is a great set up and I am very happy!!! I was also surprised to find a 498T with 4 conductors so I did not have to put a different volume pot in it either and since this guitar came with push pull volume pots, this was about the best way to alter it and keep it original as possible. The sound is very nice and it has a bit more punch in it when I go to the bridge setting for the type of playing I do. I am very happy with the results. I also took some foam and put under both pick ups to make them even up under the strings so it would be more balanced signal as well plus, it also helped the looks too. If any of you have an SG with the burstbucker 1 and 3 combo with the ability to split the coils, I would highly suggest swapping out the BB 3 bridge position to the 498T bridge pick up. ALso I know alot of les pauls come with the BB pick ups now too. I do not see as many complaining about them as much in the les pauls. I think it has to do with body mass and since the les pauls have alot more mass than an SG does, to me this might account why the bb 3 in the bridge was lacking, it did not have enough tone wood there to balance out the sound. Anyways, talk to you all later, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Yes... the 498T has hot, balanced coils, wound on "T" bobbins with correct string alignment of the pole pieces in the bridge postion, both points different from all the BurstBuckers. This makes the 498T sound fatter even compared to the balanced, neck-spaced '57 Classic Pluses in my opinion, perhaps too fat for some Les Paul players but supporting a round and chunky tone in SGs. And in my 2011 L6Ses as well. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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