Lucciano Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Looking for some info . I have what I think is a 1951 Les Paul that was given to me by my dad . Is their a way to date this as there wasn't serial #'s on the early ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeman Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Well i think they started selling them in 1952. Do you have a picture? IF it's genuine it could be worth a pretty penny. From watching Antiques Roadshow they will show from time to time people that come in with legit old Les Pauls or Strats that they found in a closet or their family member purchased and never played and was then handed down to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Hello Lucciano! Â Welcome to the Forums! Â What makes You think it is a '51? Â Cheers... Bence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucciano Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Well i think they started selling them in 1952. Do you have a picture? IF it's genuine it could be worth a pretty penny. From watching Antiques Roadshow they will show from time to time people that come in with legit old Les Pauls or Strats that they found in a closet or their family member purchased and never played and was then handed down to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucciano Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Hello Lucciano!  Welcome to the Forums!  What makes You think it is a '51?  Cheers... Bence   My Grandpa said that this was the year he bought it . This is why I'm looking for confirmation . I've checked many of websites and all they say is that they were selling in 52 but prototypes were being dispersed in 51. Not that it matters a hole lot as it was refinished at one point in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucciano Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 I will post some pics later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 ...I have what I think is a 1951 Les Paul...Is their a way to date this as there wasn't serial #'s on the early ones... The prototype was taken up to Les Paul in "...late 1951 or early 1952..." according to the guitar historian Gil Hembree. Â The official unveiling was from July 27th - 31st 1952 at the Hotel New Yorker in the city of that name. Immediately before this there was a 'music trades' pre-release showing in the Waldorf Astoria on the 24th & 25th. Â Les Paul himself first used one publicly in June '52. Â Early LPs had unbound 'boards and the bridge p'up fixing screws are at the corners rather than in-line with the pole-pieces. Â As far as authenticating the instrument is concerned; there are a few specialist dealers who can verify the originality of the guitar. Â P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 My Grandpa said that this was the year he bought it . This is why I'm looking for confirmation . I've checked many of websites and all they say is that they were selling in 52 but prototypes were being dispersed in 51. Not that it matters a hole lot as it was refinished at one point in time. Â I see. Despite of refinishing, it is possible to tell whether it's one from the first runs, or not. Please, post some pictures. Â Best wishes... Bence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 My Grandpa said that this was the year he bought it . I've checked many of websites and all they say is that they were selling in 52 but prototypes were being dispersed in 51. Not that it matters a hole lot as it was refinished at one point in time. A couple of points; If he says he bought it from a dealership then you should bear in mind they were not commercially available until summer 1952 as stated above (post #7). If it was a prototype then it's almost certain that he couldn't have bought it from a dealership. Â The design hadn't been finalised before early '52 and it's unthinkable that Gibson would let a prototype of such an important 'project' go at this time - before release. Many of the 'fail' protoypes were cut-up as the design was pefected although a couple DO survive. I have pictures of the two known and authenticated 1951 (one possibly early 1952) Les Paul prototypes. Both, however, are very different from final production instruments. Â What finish was it before it was re-finished? If it was originally in Gold-Top finish, and it looks like a '52 Gold-Top, then in all probability it is a '52 Gold-Top... Â P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucciano Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 A couple of points; If he says he bought it from a dealership then you should bear in mind they were not commercially available until summer 1952 as stated above (post #7). If it was a prototype then it's almost certain that he couldn't have bought it from a dealership. Â The design hadn't been finalised before early '52 and it's unthinkable that Gibson would let a prototype of such an important 'project' go at this time - before release. Many of the 'fail' protoypes were cut-up as the design was pefected although a couple DO survive. I have pictures of the two known and authenticated 1951 (one possibly early 1952) Les Paul prototypes. Both, however, are very different from final production instruments. Â What finish was it before it was re-finished? If it was originally in Gold-Top finish, and it looks like a '52 Gold-Top, then in all probability it is a '52 Gold-Top... Â P. To my knowledge it was a cream colour I never seen it before the refinish. Did the gold tops have a flat body as the ones ive seen are shaped a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan H Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 To my knowledge it was a cream colour I never seen it before the refinish. Did the gold tops have a flat body as the ones ive seen are shaped a bit  Photos of the guitar from multiple angles including close-up shots could help us determine what it is.  -Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 . 1935 - Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bill Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I would love to see picks of that guitar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Yup... WE DEMAND PICS!! or it didn't happen :P :) Â (but seriously, an old one like that would be of much interest around here ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjsinla Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Sounds like a Les Paul Junior; flat body, cream color. We need pics. It cannot be a 51. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Here's something which carries a considerable bit of academic interest. It shows (a poor repro of a snap of - don't blame me!) the only carved-maple-top prototype Les Paul to have survived as mentioned in post #9. It's 'rescue' was described thus; Â "A past Gibson plant foreman/designer, Larry Allers, made it a point to save this very important guitar. ...it was a miracle that such a historical instrument was actually saved from the bandsaw. We will be forever indebted to (his) foresight.." Â Â Pretty much everyone Gil Hembree interviewed regarding the genesis of the Les Paul cites Larry Allers as being the person who, almost single-handedly, made the concept a reality. Ted McCarty, Les Paul and Maurice Berlin each had important input but it was Larry Allers who made the ideas come to fruition. Â P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjsinla Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Looking for some info . I have what I think is a 1951 Les Paul that was given to me by my dad . Is their a way to date this as there wasn't serial #'s on the early ones  You'd have to look at the codes on the volume and tone potentiometers. Assuming they were never changed, that would be a starting point to establish age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Here's something which carries a considerable bit of academic interest. It shows (a poor repro of a snap of - don't blame me!) the only carved-maple-top prototype Les Paul to have survived as mentioned in post #9. It's 'rescue' was described thus; Â "A past Gibson plant foreman/designer, Larry Allers, made it a point to save this very important guitar. ...it was a miracle that such a historical instrument was actually saved from the bandsaw. We will be forever indebted to (his) foresight.." Â Â Pretty much everyone Gil Hembree interviewed regarding the genesis of the Les Paul cites Larry Allers as being the person who, almost single-handedly, made the concept a reality. Ted McCarty, Les Paul and Maurice Berlin each had important input but it was Larry Allers who made the ideas come to fruition. Â P. Â Â i'd give my left almond to have THAT guitar !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Mac Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 My Grandpa said that this was the year he bought it . This is why I'm looking for confirmation . I've checked many of websites and all they say is that they were selling in 52 but prototypes were being dispersed in 51. Not that it matters a hole lot as it was refinished at one point in time. There is always the simple chance that your Grandpa was simply mistaken in his retelling of the history of that guitar. He could also have, by prototype, simply meant the original release; the first line of Les Paul guitars publicly marketed... Â That simple and innocent potential would explain alot... Â But if it's a Junior, with a flat body, it would be a later model anyway. It sounds like maybe it was an original TV yellow Les Paul Junior... Â If my memory serves correct, I thought some early TV Yellow models were more cream-like in hue... Â " The Les Paul Junior was originally introduced in 1954 as a single cutaway model, with its double cutaway counterpart arriving to the market in early 1958. Color schemes most commonly placed on Juniors were vintage sunburst, cherry red, and TV yellow. " Â Having said/posted that from Wikipedia, I suspect there are plenty of guys in here that are way more knowledgeable and accurate historians than Wiki... Â Still would like to see pics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjsinla Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 There is always the simple chance that your Grandpa was simply mistaken in his retelling of the history of that guitar. He could also have, by prototype, simply meant the original release; the first line of Les Paul guitars publicly marketed... Â That simple and innocent potential would explain alot... Â But if it's a Junior, with a flat body, it would be a later model anyway. It sounds like maybe it was an original TV yellow Les Paul Junior... Â If my memory serves correct, I thought some early TV Yellow models were more cream-like in hue... Â " The Les Paul Junior was originally introduced in 1954 as a single cutaway model, with its double cutaway counterpart arriving to the market in early 1958. Color schemes most commonly placed on Juniors were vintage sunburst, cherry red, and TV yellow. " Â Having said/posted that from Wikipedia, I suspect there are plenty of guys in here that are way more knowledgeable and accurate historians than Wiki... Â Still would like to see pics! Â No, they made white ones as well as TV yellow. They fetch a pretty penny. Had a chance to buy one in the 80's but didn't and still regret it. Had just bought a red 59 Junior the week before and had no money. The shop had two white ones that they had just gotten in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Mac Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 No, they made white ones as well as TV yellow. They fetch a pretty penny. Had a chance to buy one in the 80's but didn't and still regret it. Had just bought a red 59 Junior the week before and had no money. The shop had two white ones that they had just gotten in. Ah, that makes sense... I had seen one or two somewhere listed as TV Yellow that were actually whitish in color; like an antique white. They must have been misidentified... Â Is there much of a difference between the '59 & '54? Did the early Juniors also sport the wrap-tail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucciano Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 sorry guys having a hard time loading pics sounds like the possibility of it being a 1951 are slim . I'll keep trying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucciano Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 Managed to send a pic to a gentleman on this board he says it is a Les Paul Junior 1955-58 is there a way to date it closer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucciano Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 Â Â Not orig pick ups or tuners but everything else is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjsinla Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Managed to send a pic to a gentleman on this board he says it is a Les Paul Junior 1955-58 is there a way to date it closer  Judging by the shape of the pick guard, that guitar might have started life as a Les Paul Special. I believe that was the name of the Junior that came with two pick ups. If the volume and tone potentiometers are original, they have codes on them that will give you an approximate date of manufacture. See if you can get the numbers off them and post them here. I wonder how old those pickups are? They might be from the late 50s or early 60s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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