Zeke Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Sorry in advance if this has already been discussed. But I am very curious about this and wanted to know if this really helps with sustain and bottom end. I was wondering if anyone has tried this and didn't like it. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.seymourduncan.com%2Fblog%2Ftips-and-tricks%2Fstring-theory-what-is-top-wrapping%2F&ei=YZTjUvS_LeqjsQSHo4CoCQ&usg=AFQjCNFFsq_eQ6DKoBBiMvYXPjqr809xCA&bvm=bv.59930103,d.cWc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Mac Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 To my knowledge, which is moderate at best, I've found that, other than because there is no separate bridge on '54 & '55 Les Pauls and those early type guitars that only had a wrap-tail bridge, that because of early Les Paul head-stock angles and potentially hand-carved arch-tops being unique to a point that due to the neck/body fit and other dynamic circumstances, that sometimes with a higher action the angle from bridge to stop-piece was so steep that the strings will actually make contact with the back edge/top corner of the bridge and that contact can influence string/note resonance, sustain, and possibly even intonation. There is also some indication that the actual wrap-tail bridges that are designed specifically to be wrapped may have more rounded contours that more easily accommodate wrapping than the standard stop-bar of more standard stop-bar/tail-piece & bridge 2-part configuration... I like anything that lessens any sharp angles or sharp contact points with strings. I think in general it can only help... It also happens to increase overall string length which can also increase resonance, sustain, and other dynamic tone factors... What I don't like is how several string manufacturers have that double wound anchor area at the ball-end and it often doesn't sit well wrapped. They seem to be sitting find in the bigger picture you linked-to, but I tried it once and that double-wound anchor point just didn't want to wrap and left a gap so I didn't follow-thru and simply strung it normally... By the looks of the picture it looks like that double-wrap anchor point on the string settles-in just fine under full string tension... I may yet try it again seeing that... Many who do it claim better tone and sustain characteristics. I'm curious to try it for myself too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telemaster03 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I top wrap on my 2003 Epiphone Elitist LP Custom and on my newly acquired Les Paul Traditional. Both of the guitars also have Tone Pros bridges and tailpieces. I can tell a difference in sound and feel on both guitars. I have a Les Paul Studio 50's Tribute with Humbuckers, and I didn't care for the top wrap on that guitar. Again it was down to sound and feel. Some people swear that there is no difference and maybe there isn't. Maybe there is. I don't know about all the physics and string break and all that, I just know I like those guitars strung that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 . I'll resist the temptation to roll on about theory. . B) If you're having trouble with the bottom end, I'm not sure how top wrapping would help beyond possibly a better transmission of vibrational energy. Regarding sustain - With the availability of electronic sustain pedals, do you really need to be concerned over some perceived difference in sustain? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I'll resist the temptation to roll on about theory. . B)... I'm resisting everything..........I know how this one ends............... P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Sutherland Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I'm resisting everything..........I know how this one ends............... P. Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Sutherland Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Sorry in advance if this has already been discussed. But I am very curious about this and wanted to know if this really helps with sustain and bottom end. I was wondering if anyone has tried this and didn't like it. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.seymourduncan.com%2Fblog%2Ftips-and-tricks%2Fstring-theory-what-is-top-wrapping%2F&ei=YZTjUvS_LeqjsQSHo4CoCQ&usg=AFQjCNFFsq_eQ6DKoBBiMvYXPjqr809xCA&bvm=bv.59930103,d.cWc I bet Bonamassa would sound exactly the same if his strings weren't top-wrapped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Mac Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 . I'll resist the temptation to roll on about theory. . B) If you're having trouble with the bottom end, I'm not sure how top wrapping would help beyond possibly a better transmission of vibrational energy. Regarding sustain - With the availability of electronic sustain pedals, do you really need to be concerned over some perceived difference in sustain? . If you don't like pedals and like your axe going direct into tube amp, that would be a reason... I happen to like both options and it depends on my mood and what axe/amp/tone combination I'm likin' at any given moment... Sometimes I like a real clean tone and the natural resonance and sustain ringing-out with a more direct signal... I can see how increasing the guitars natural sustain and resonance, if a difference can truly be perceived, would be an option to explore... I don't know about the bottom-end thing other than the natural resonance may be more noticeable in the heavier bottom-end tones... But yes, tone is mostly in the hands... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeke Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 . I'll resist the temptation to roll on about theory. . B) If you're having trouble with the bottom end, I'm not sure how top wrapping would help beyond possibly a better transmission of vibrational energy. Regarding sustain - With the availability of electronic sustain pedals, do you really need to be concerned over some perceived difference in sustain? . WTF??... hold on dude! why so arrogant? I am the proud owner of a 2013 Les Paul Traditional, right out of the box its a ******* ballsy guitar. I read an article that states that it is possible to restring a Les Paul guitar differently so that it increases my bottom end and sustain and was wondering if anyone has tried this or not. Excuse me but my guitar doesn't lack, if anything is lacking it is your reading/comprehension skills. Trust me I love the sound of my guitar, I was just curious if this is true or not that's all. GOT IT?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeke Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 I'm resisting everything..........I know how this one ends............... P. Have you tried this?? Simple question, if not, well then don't chime in then dude............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Most comparisons lack since one has to use new strings twice, for either top wrapping and back. It is unsensible to reuse strings since there will be bends, either from nut or bridge. For another important point see below. There is only one valid way: 1) Conventional restringing, leaving the strings for at least ten days on the guitar for adaptation to the magnetic field, playing reproduceable licks with reproduceable settings while recording them with reproduceable settings, all the same as in step 2. 2) Top wrap restringing using same brand, make and gauge, leaving the strings for at least ten days on the guitar for adaptation to the magnetic field, playing reproduceable licks with reproduceable settings while recording them with reproduceable settings, all the same as in step 1. The order of steps 1) and 2) might be inverted for convenience. 3) Comparison and evaluation of the recordings in an A/B double blind test with an auxiliary person. The magnetic remanence within the strings might affect the tone stronger than changes of string suspension or even pickups, so there is no way besides waiting for it to stabilize. Reuse of strings won't be of any help since in addition to the bends in them, the strings will be located significantly different with respect to the pickups. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 I bet Bonamassa would sound exactly the same if his strings weren't top-wrapped Don't forget the plastic bridges he uses under the plain strings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 I'm resisting everything..........I know how this one ends............... P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Sutherland Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Have you tried this?? Simple question, if not, well then don't chime in then dude............... This topic has been covered ad nauseum on this forum, I'm pretty sure that was what Pippy was alluding to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Sutherland Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Sorry in advance if this has already been discussed. But I am very curious about this and wanted to know if this really helps with sustain and bottom end. I was wondering if anyone has tried this and didn't like it. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.seymourduncan.com%2Fblog%2Ftips-and-tricks%2Fstring-theory-what-is-top-wrapping%2F&ei=YZTjUvS_LeqjsQSHo4CoCQ&usg=AFQjCNFFsq_eQ6DKoBBiMvYXPjqr809xCA&bvm=bv.59930103,d.cWc I top-wrap my LP's, but can't really say whether or not it added any bottom end or increased sustain. It feels a little slinkier, and bends do feel a little easier (I'm using .011's), but that could all be in my head. Hope this helps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Have you tried this?? Simple question, if not, well then don't chime in then dude............... yup P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Have you tried this?? Simple question, if not, well then don't chime in then dude............... You funny! This is the internet me-laddy, you don't get to dictate who answers your thread, Pippy was just saying that every time this question comes up some idiot starts throwing their toys around(seems he was right to be cautious). And just by the way, Pippy is the best chance you have of any detailed information and a sound opinion on this board. Not only has he done everything you will ever read about trying and forgotten more than you will ever know, he is also intelligent enough that his findings would normally be sound and he is also articulate enough to express it in a meaningful way. Now, why not unbunch your nickers and ask P politely what his experience was now that you know he's tried it. Say, I tell you what, let me show you what I mean... Pippy, I know opinion is devided on this but I'd love to hear yours. I can never reproduce your experiences so maybe you would tell me about it. What did you find when you tried top wrapping? What string gauge(s) did you try? If more than one, was there any difference in the result? Did you try it on more than one guitar? Were any of them lacking in any way or was this just a curiosity lead experiment? Did it effect tone or playabity or both? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 yup P. I preferred your first reply! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Pippy....blah...blah...blah... You missed out "...Devilishly Handsome..." P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 You missed out "...Devilishly Handsome..." P. Well, I didn't say it. Doesn't "missed out" imply that I should have done? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Top Wrapping?? . . Sorry in advance if this has already been discussed. WTF??... hold on dude! why so arrogant? I am the proud owner of a 2013 Les Paul Traditional, right out of the box its a ******* ballsy guitar. I read an article that states that it is possible to restring a Les Paul guitar differently so that it increases my bottom end and sustain and was wondering if anyone has tried this or not. Excuse me but my guitar doesn't lack, if anything is lacking it is your reading/comprehension skills. Trust me I love the sound of my guitar, I was just curious if this is true or not that's all. GOT IT?? FWIW, you've taken my comments wrong. Pippy, you were so right - but you got flamed anyway. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Pippy, you were so right - but you got flamed anyway. . It was inevitable. It always is....... P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Mac Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 So Pippy, Do you know if there are differences between an actual wrap-tail bridge and the tune-a-matic stop bar tailpiec in contours etc. Would it be more conduscive to top-wrapping to purchase a replacement wrap-tail and install it on a standard hard-tail in place of the standard stop-bar, or are they not interchangeable/compatible? I just don't have enough personal experience with them to know. I've only seen detailed pictures, and then it's still hard to tell, but my brain is telling me I'm perceiving at least subtle differences that might make the actual wrap-tail bridge piece better for top-wrapping from a stop-bar position... I could be convincing myself of something completely false, I just don't know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 I "wraparounded" my R8, and I noticed that this type of wrapping allows to reduce the angle between strings and tailpiece, and makes (to me) the strings softer to bend. In terms of sound, it reduces a little the high end, but I'm not really sure about that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 To my knowledge, which is moderate at best, I've found that, other than because there is no separate bridge on '54 & '55 Les Pauls and those early type guitars that only had a wrap-tail bridge, that because of early Les Paul head-stock angles and potentially hand-carved arch-tops being unique to a point that due to the neck/body fit and other dynamic circumstances, that sometimes with a higher action the angle from bridge to stop-piece was so steep that the strings will actually make contact with the back edge/top corner of the bridge and that contact can influence string/note resonance, sustain, and possibly even intonation. There is also some indication that the actual wrap-tail bridges that are designed specifically to be wrapped may have more rounded contours that more easily accommodate wrapping than the standard stop-bar of more standard stop-bar/tail-piece & bridge 2-part configuration... I like anything that lessens any sharp angles or sharp contact points with strings. I think in general it can only help... It also happens to increase overall string length which can also increase resonance, sustain, and other dynamic tone factors... What I don't like is how several string manufacturers have that double wound anchor area at the ball-end and it often doesn't sit well wrapped. They seem to be sitting find in the bigger picture you linked-to, but I tried it once and that double-wound anchor point just didn't want to wrap and left a gap so I didn't follow-thru and simply strung it normally... By the looks of the picture it looks like that double-wrap anchor point on the string settles-in just fine under full string tension... I may yet try it again seeing that... Many who do it claim better tone and sustain characteristics. I'm curious to try it for myself too... Fender Bullets (with the bullet end) are good for topwrapping because there isn't any picky anchoring wire at the ends. I top wrap because it worked better on an lp studio to get the tailpiece down to the body (it had to be too high). Feel wise I like the explanation that it increases string length, they feel more bouncy (tension wise) like elastic band-y, rubbery. I've heard that described as 'slinky' feeling. It works and I like it. Topwrapping isn't that 'exclusive' with lp owner's, like I thought I'd be the 'only one' doing it ... went to a jam and a guy had a gold top, top wrapped, so as a 'technique' it's 'out there'. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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