jc1funk Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I've recently learn how to set up so I find myself checking intonation every time I change strings (same gauge, brand etc). Problem is it seems to need adjustment each time. Assuming I'm doing the job correctly each time, is this common or a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzrat Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I've recently learn how to set up so I find myself checking intonation every time I change strings (same gauge, brand etc). Problem is it seems to need adjustment each time. Assuming I'm doing the job correctly each time, is this common or a problem? I always check mine anyway, but I have found strings sets of the same gauge might require an intonation tweak even if the saddles have not moved. In addition, the saddles might have moved even with the constant string pressure. I've had Fender saddles lower over time from pressure and vibration. Stands to reason the saddle pieces in a TOM bridge might shift a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc1funk Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 Humidity and temperature maybe? Yeah could be... summer here has been tilting between extremes, from low 20s C into the 40s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 It may take several days after restringing for achieving valid intonation adjustment. New strings will adapt to the magnetic fields with time. Four to five days are sufficient for typical humbuckers with bar magnets but it may take ten days until the intonation is stable on guitars featuring single coils with rod-magnets. Also refer to this post: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/105624-multiple-guitars-vs-technique/page__view__findpost__p__1428176 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc1funk Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 It may take several days after restringing for achieving valid intonation adjustment. New strings will adapt to the magnetic fields with time. Fore to five days are sufficient for typical humbuckers with bar magnets but it may take ten days until the intonation is stable on guitars featuring single coils with rod-magnets. Interesting.. can you explain in what way the strings "adapt". I always thought the key to new strings was to stretch them out and play them in (to dust off the excess brightness) so I don't understand what, if any, passive process would be taking place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Interesting.. can you explain in what way the strings "adapt". I always thought the key to new strings was to stretch them out and play them in (to dust off the excess brightness) so I don't understand what, if any, passive process would be taking place. They become magnets with their polarities reverse to the opposing pickups. This takes them some time since they are magnetically "hard", i. e. they slowly build up a remanence which finally will reach a persistent value. This is due to the so-called Weiss areas in their crystals where the magnetic moments of all the iron atoms are synchronized as in every permanent magnet, crystals on magnetic tapes, harddisks, magnetic parts of credit cards etc. Soft, unalloyed iron is magnetically soft, its magnetization changes rapidly, and it wouldn't create a tone through a magnetic pickup. However, pure iron is mechanically soft, too, and making strings takes spring steels featuring high elasticity and durability. Strictly spoken, each adjustment of pickup height or severe change of tuning will change string response a bit, but restringing a guitar with magnetic pickups will take the longest time for each string. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc1funk Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 They become magnets with their polarities reverse to the opposing pickups. This takes them some time since they are magnetically "hard", i. e. they slowly build up a remanence which finally will reach a persistent value. This is due to the so-called Weiss areas in their crystals where the magnetic moments of all the iron atoms are synchronized as in every permanent magnet, crystals on magnetic tapes, harddisks, magnetic parts of credit cards etc. Soft, unalloyed iron is magnetically soft, its magnetization changes rapidly, and it wouldn't create a tone through a magnetic pickup. However, pure iron is mechanically soft, too, and making strings takes spring steels featuring high elasticity and durability. Strictly spoken, each adjustment of pickup height or severe change of tuning will change string response a bit, but restringing a guitar with magnetic pickups will take the longest time for each string. Fascinating, but how does this affect intonation? I imagine the physical effect on the length of the string would be minute, if at all measurable by a standard plug-in tuner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I change strings pretty regularly on six guitars, and I set intonation immediately after I change and stretch strings if it needs it. If I use the same string brand and gauge, the intonation does not usually change. Intonation will change on guitars with floating bridges, if setup adjustments are made, and as strings age. But once I've set intonation and haven't made any other adjustments, I leave it alone. You could drive yourself crazy trying to reach perfection in tuning, intonation, and action every time you pick up your guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Fascinating, but how does this affect intonation? I imagine the physical effect on the length of the string would be minute, if at all measurable by a standard plug-in tuner... Magnetic properties will affect the string pull between magnets and strings. Rising within a certain time, the magnetic force of the strings will "pull back" and so increase the resulting force which now has become a mutual one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc1funk Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 You could drive yourself crazy trying to reach perfection in tuning, intonation, and action every time you pick up your guitar. Aaaaand how! (ie yeah totally) Worth it in preparation for a recording session though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Aaaaand how! (ie yeah totally) Worth it in preparation for a recording session though Yessss - can confirm that. In 1983, a bandmate came to the recording studio after having changed strings on his Fender Stratocaster the day before. It was a catastrophe - the producer wacked out completely, and I adjusted the Strat's intonation three times this day within a few hours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I change strings pretty regularly on six guitars, and I set intonation immediately after I change and stretch strings if it needs it. If I use the same string brand and gauge, the intonation does not usually change. Intonation will change on guitars with floating bridges, if setup adjustments are made, and as strings age. But once I've set intonation and haven't made any other adjustments, I leave it alone. You could drive yourself crazy trying to reach perfection in tuning, intonation, and action every time you pick up your guitar. When wanting a sustaining adjustment - and I always want that -, I rather make slight intonation corrections just before a string change in case they are not too corroded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazorge Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I've recently learn how to set up so I find myself checking intonation every time I change strings (same gauge, brand etc). Problem is it seems to need adjustment each time. Assuming I'm doing the job correctly each time, is this common or a problem? Just curious…when you change the strings are you going one string at a time or all at once? Removing all the strings can make your truss rod and your bridge move on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc1funk Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 Just curious…when you change the strings are you going one string at a time or all at once? Removing all the strings can make your truss rod and your bridge move on you. Interesting point. I do 3 strings at a time, each side of the headstock, low strings first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazorge Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Maybe get your guitar all set up and right and then try one string at a time the next time you change your strings and let us know if that helped. Early on I was told about the potential for the truss rod and bridge to move when you take all the strings off so I've always done one string at a time. I'd be curious to see if that makes a difference for you. Good luck! and Interesting point. I do 3 strings at a time, each side of the headstock, low strings first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Just curious…when you change the strings are you going one string at a time or all at once? Removing all the strings can make your truss rod and your bridge move on you. Well that may be, but it never seemed to affect my guitars to remove all strings. At least twice a year, I will remove all strings so I can clean up the frets, fretboard, tuners, pickups, bridge, etc. And at least once a year I'll condition the fretboard to keep it from drying out. I'm told this is particularly important with ebony fretboards. And I can't believe removing strings from one side of the neck can be any better for the guitar than removing them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny W. Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Removing all the strings at once provides a great opportunity to clean the board and frets if they need it and causes absolutely no harm to the guitar. If the neck moves a bit it will come right back once the new strings are at tension, and it takes just a couple of minutes to relocate the bridge and touch up the intonation if necessary. Danny W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onemanband Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 They become magnets with their polarities reverse to the opposing pickups. This takes them some time since they are magnetically "hard", i. e. they slowly build up a remanence which finally will reach a persistent value. This is due to the so-called Weiss areas in their crystals where the magnetic moments of all the iron atoms are synchronized as in every permanent magnet, crystals on magnetic tapes, harddisks, magnetic parts of credit cards etc. Soft, unalloyed iron is magnetically soft, its magnetization changes rapidly, and it wouldn't create a tone through a magnetic pickup. However, pure iron is mechanically soft, too, and making strings takes spring steels featuring high elasticity and durability. Anybody knows that!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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