Jimi Mac Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 While I've taken the unique first name spelling for my online persona, it is to convey a guitar player ideal, which it does, but to be honest I personally think he's overrated... Not in a classical sense because he had short but real moments of orgasmic perfection in guitar playing, it just wasn't long-lived enough for me to quantify him as the best at anything... I guess having said that though, I must confess, the guy I peg as the best ever had a run of only 4-5 years in the public eye; Peter Green... There was a recent thread about him being the best blues guy ever, or that he can be as good as it gets in that regard. And while I will never cast aspersions upon the hero adoration of my fellow guitar players, as it's all subjective anyway, I have some issue with the worship of Jimi Hendrix, for myself at least... Probably my biggest issue is the self-induced death by drug abuse/overdose... Having said that it was an acid trip gone bad that ended the pinnacle of a career in his prime of my hero Peter Green... I also love Duane Allman's work and his drug abuse was legendary, and I'm rather certain it probably contributed if not majorly to his fatal motorcycle crash... Hell he and Eric Clapton were doing so much Heroine at one time the both of them should be dead and I love Slowhand too... Not sure I can qualify that with sentient analysis. I think that even though he was absolutely cutting edge with tone and effects, he let the drug induced perverted/corrupted judgement allow him to think he was playing some of the best music ever when he was stoned and it was really kind of crappy often... His Blues was sublime, when he really endeavored Blues instead of simply falling into the psychedelic onanistic tangents of the self-indulgence of the drug culture music of the 60's. Another bone of contention I have for Jimi is his willingness to profiteer from and even plagiarize songs from even the black Blues pioneers and originators that were supposedly his heroes and influences... I adore and worship the pioneers; Buddy Guy, Hubert Sumlin, Albert King, Otis Rush, BB King, Albert Collins, Lowell Fulson, T-Bone Walker, Elmore James, Muddy Waters, Jimmy Rogers, JB Hutto, etc. etc. etc. (too many to name) And I've met more than a few of them... Case & point; my favorite (it may be a toss-up between two) Bluesy song of his is one entitled Driving South from 1965. First recorded in his BBC Sessions and it is an exceptional piece of melodic riff work taken to its pinnacle... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUMLlQByiRM But the truth is it's not his. And its title isn't Driving South... It's "Thaw Out" by Albert Collins circa 1964, possibly recorded as early as 1961 or even 1958. But Jimi didn't apparently have any bones about taking credit for it at times; listed as written by Jimi Hendrix and other times listing it on his album as credited to Curtis Knight... True enough the arrangement is unique and music lines are repeated differently, but clearly this is where he got it, and as far as I know he's never given Albert Collins the credit for that song in any way and it frosts me... (no pun intended) I find it troubling that Jimi could do that to one of his fellow Afro-American Blues travelers and those that went before him... Quite possibly a byproduct of the judgement destruction caused by the drug abuse... The 2nd of my tie for favorite Hendrix song is "Freedom." http://youtu.be/I6VXVIjbeTc The lick/run that starts @ 0:53 and goes thru 1:01 is one of those licks that grabbed me by the short-hairs and forced me to take notice. The song is heavy with Albert King influence and crosses over to funk and R&B and simply goes as unique as anything out there. My favorite album of his is "Blues." Covering many classics in styles from Muddy Waters to Freddie King and covers many of the bases that are a must... While I would never wish to demean or marginalize anyone's love or adoration for their hero, I myself personally cannot get into Jimi Hendrix any further other than to give him honorable mention as having some very good work that was way too short-lived in comparison to his psychedelic drug addled nonsense and roughly musical cacophony of what I consider a waste of what could have been one of the best players of all time had he not self-destructed and in many cases ruined songs that should have been superb... Just my completely honest personal opinion, and I cannot argue the truistic indelible mark he's left upon many of those I consider the greatest; from Eric Clapton, SRV, Billy Gibbons to the biggest names and acts from The British Invasion to The American rock scene... I just think he wasted what he had too much and blew his live performances all too often by being too stoned to maintain his musical focus and keep it out of the self-indulgent gutter of pointlessness that eventually killed him... While I like his work, in bits and pieces here and there, I cannot consider him the greatest or even in my top 10 for the reasons I've mentioned above... Like I said it's all subjective and this is only my own personal opinion, and I'm sure many will not only disagree with me, but may well believe those I worship to be nothing but strums for their own well defined reasons... It's all good... Sadly I don't cotton-to Mike Bloomfield or Rory Gallagher much either. Considering I'm a Blues votary, I have a hard time getting my head around that for myself even... Just my take... Please, Hendrix lovers, no offense intended! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtim Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 So what I am seeing here simply is, you do not like Hendrix as much as Peter Green right???...I can appreciate that. I had all of the Curtis Knight b.s. tapes back in the 1980's and I was not a fan at all. They were always on some off beat imported record label no one ever heard of before, with bad translated english on the credits and such and who knows who was really playing on those tapes anyways and even if it was Curtis Knight in the first place. I also have a CD of Hendrix playing his supposed last concert called The Last Experience. I got it about 20 years ago and it is a concert fom 1968, kind of strange you know, since he died in 1970!!! I do not know of Hendrix not giving credit to other artist, as he always played someone elses songs as well, like Rock Me Baby. He was a big folk music fan too and I bet half the world thinks Hey Joe is his song, but it's not. Anyways I have the Shrine in 69 Fleetwood Mac with Peter Green concert and man I got to admit it is probably one of my favorite CD's as well. His tone is awesome and you can really tell who is playiing what when they start getting it going. Albatross is cool but Oh Well (not on that CD) is probably my favorite . You hardley ever hear the long version of Oh Well anymore. Anyways, Yeah Peter Green is one great player too. On another note, drugs make people do stupid things alright. But what really gets to me is how young these guys all were when they died or got killed. Anyways......Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Mac Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 So what I am seeing here simply is, you do not like Hendrix as much as Peter Green right???...I can appreciate that. I had all of the Curtis Knight b.s. tapes back in the 1980's and I was not a fan at all. They were always on some off beat imported record label no one ever heard of before, with bad translated english on the credits and such and who knows who was really playing on those tapes anyways and even if it was Curtis Knight in the first place. I also have a CD of Hendrix playing his supposed last concert called The Last Experience. I got it about 20 years ago and it is a concert fom 1968, kind of strange you know, since he died in 1970!!! I do not know of Hendrix not giving credit to other artist, as he always played someone elses songs as well, like Rock Me Baby. He was a big folk music fan too and I bet half the world thinks Hey Joe is his song, but it's not. Anyways I have the Shrine in 69 Fleetwood Mac with Peter Green concert and man I got to admit it is probably one of my favorite CD's as well. His tone is awesome and you can really tell who is playiing what when they start getting it going. Albatross is cool but Oh Well (not on that CD) is probably my favorite . You hardley ever hear the long version of Oh Well anymore. Anyways, Yeah Peter Green is one great player too. On another note, drugs make people do stupid things alright. But what really gets to me is how young these guys all were when they died or got killed. Anyways......Tim I agree Tim! I think I have this love/hate reaction/response to these guys... Maybe even especially the ones that lived, but that destroyed not only their careers but their lives too... For instance; Peter Green. He's still here but is a portly little troll of a shadow of what he could have been/should have been. He was #1 in 1969 & 1970; maybe even the whole of his run with Mayall & The Mac, he gambled foolishly, and lost it all... I've had this discussion before and have been excoriated for my belief, or at least on the perception created by the way I try to communicate it, but I'm not blaming the Schizophrenia on him, but that it might not have become the life-changing/career-killing tragic issue that it was if not exacerbated by the drugs, possibly... (we'll never know) I'm angry and disappointed with him for taking what he was away from us all for some psychedelic mind-altering trip that was supposed to enhance his mind and life... It's utter bullcrap! It was self-indulgent self-poisoning all for a shot of feelgoodism for the moment! And those like Morrison and Hendrix paid the ultimate price and left their mortal coils behind for it... Part of me cannot forgive him/them for that... Do I really have a right to feel this way? To tell you the truth I'm not sure... It's their life, and it's a free country (here, for now anyway) so of course they have the right of their own existential will... It's actually a tough row to hoe for me and it gives me alot of conflict... But to lose something so good, so perfect, for something so stupid just makes no sense! Anyway, it's more than my whole Peter Green disciplehood... I've always been disappointed in what I heard from Hendrix. Except for a relatively few examples of true genius and near perfection (in quantifying with the whole of his output) when I was always expecting so much more from the hype... Again, I don't want to offend for the sake of my own personal bias and discriminating taste... It IS subjective and always will be a personal thing... But I found several to be, IMHO, better; SRV, Jeff Healey, Roy Buchanan, Otis Rush, Albert King, Albert Collins, and Billy Gibbons to name a few. Hell BB King back in the day could hold his own w/Hendrix, and the likes of Buddy Guy, Magic Sam, Freddie King, or Earl Hooker would wipe the stage with him given an opportunity in their prime, but I think even more were as good; Clapton w/Cream, Danny Kirwan, Carlos Santana, possibly even Neal Schon of Santana & Journey, Donald Kinsey, Don Felder, Joe Walsh... I'm sure there were even more, but Jimi certainly had a larger-than-life stage presence and an overt showmanship and flair for drama that set him apart as an overall performance/performer that may have given him an edge in popularity, but as for just his guitar work, I think he's been hyped into the realm of over-rated... I'm morally certain many will argue the point with me, quite possibly with extreme prejudice and animus, and point out several from my list of peers that they will feel don't belong mentioned in the same breath... I mean no foul or harm to anyone's preference or hero worship, such as my own, by this. And as I pointed out, I truly believe much the same about Mike Bloomfield and Rory Gallagher... I think their legacy/reputation far over-shadows the reality of their playing and music in terms of guitarmanship just like Hendrix... Me personally, I'm just a hack and I'm not better than anybody, and that's a fact! I certainly don't mean to cause anyone unhappiness w/my opinions! On a side-note; I really don't even know who Curtis Knight is, or if he was simply a pen-name that Jimi used once upon a time... I have to confess to my own ignorance on that one... My research, as well as Wiki, suggests that he was a music writer/producer/promoter type that was decided to try to turn Jimi into a super-star so he could ride along on his coat-tails... Clearly such an individual, if indeed he's not a pseudonym for Jimi, wouldn't be above the potential plagiarism so it's possibly not something Hendrix intended of his own free will... I must hang that possibility out there in all this discussion... A moment's research found that Curtis Knight apparently died in 1999, while he isn't just a pseudonym for Jimi Hendrix, it's unclear if he endeavored to take credit for some Hendrix' work with or without Jimi's consent being he was on the side of producing and promoting and/or possibly allowed Jimi to use his name for whatever reason for credit for some of his compositions... I just don't know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quapman Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I personally think he's overrated... Just my take... Please, Hendrix lovers, no offense intended! None taken. It is of course your opinion and you are entitled to it. But it is just that. However, to say Hendrix is overrated, especially today, is just too easy to do. He was a pioneer. Ask Clapton about the first time he saw Hendrix perform and thinking he was out of a job if at that time he would call Hendrix overrated. It's all relative. Saying it today holds no water. There is no best guitarist. Peter Green may be your favorite guitarist, but he his not the best. There is absolutely no way to prove who is better than anyone else. Record sales don't prove it, popularity doesn't prove it, how fast you can play doesn't prove it, weather you are self taught, classically trained, have a degree in music doesn't prove it, ect. ect. When you say best - You really men favorite. It is like saying Mozart is a better composer that Beethoven, or Mahler or Schubert, or Stravinsky or Tchaikovsky, ect. It is just an opinion. Nothing more nothing less. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Mac Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 None taken. It is of course your opinion and you are entitled to it. But it is just that. However, to say Hendrix is overrated, especially today, is just too easy to do. He was a pioneer. Ask Clapton about the first time he saw Hendrix perform and thinking he was out of a job if at that time he would call Hendrix overrated. It's all relative. Saying it today holds no water. Not sure I agree... (or disagree for that matter) I honestly believe that Clapton may well not have been the best judge of that. Most of those guys had a certain amount of humility and at the time probably considered themselves average or at least with a number of peers even if we consider/ed them the best of the best. To me clearly Clapton at times had far more clarity and well polished technique. Hendrix, while new and exotic in The UK taking it by storm more because he was there and the British guitarists were disciples of American Blues and Americans in general could have easily over-blown their adulation and accolades for Hendrix at the time when they themselves were putting out just as good guitar playing music themselves. And while I agree that he had moments of greatness, he spent alot of time baked, drunk, stoned, and wasted and in a number of his live performances (I'm able to say exactly the same about Jimmy Page if I think about it) I've seen him simply sloppy and drug-addled leaving much to be desired of the performance. Not that the others weren't too, but that's my point... He wasn't really that much better than the other guys even if the Brits were fawning over him. I think he was more different and unique than he was "better." Having said that I'm not sure then how to quantify one of the things that turned me onto the Blues pioneers and heroes in the first place. Clapton was better known to me than his heroes in my youth and I once saw him quoted as saying; "Buddy Guy is by far and away the greatest guitarist alive." Obviously this can be taken many ways, but it made me stand up and take notice of Buddy Guy and led me down a lifelong path of disciplehood and reverence to the American Blues Pioneers and originators... I see exactly what you're saying and it mirrors my own perceptions of Buddy Guy... I think there's something about his playing that upsets my ear at it's core about alot of his playing that may simply have more to do with his unique style and approach to playing. There's something I find disconnected from itself even and too abstract about his phrasing and direction sometimes that I simply don't like/appreciate the way I do in others... I'm often this way about psychedelic music in gereral and think there's too much of it that is pointless and thoughtless without any sentient direction. Having said that, I've also always liked The Doors and Robbie Krieger's guitaring to his & Morrison's songs! That can be as psychedelic as it gets... And like I always said it's totally subjective, which is why I too hate the blanket statements about "best" which usually sets me off, as it did in this case, when I heard another's opinion stating such about Hendrix I guess... Was he good? Better than I'll ever be of that there can be no doubt, but there's something about not only his persona, but also his music I just can't get into for whatever reason... Having I said that I've found a handful of his tunes/arrangements/compositions that are sublime and examples of some of my very favorite pieces; Driving South (even if it is Albert Collins' Thaw Out) Freedom, and a few of his more traditional Blues numbers... , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quapman Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Not sure I agree... (or disagree for that matter) I honestly believe ...... I think he was more different and unique.... I think there's something about his playing.... , It's all good bro. It is your opinion. We don't have to agree. There is no right or wrong.. Just opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A440 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Music is the most controversial thing you can discuss. Everyone has a preference! Who is the judge? I certainly wish I was on the almighty one that could say from my lofty position who is best and who is less than .....Whether it is drugs, candy, sex or guitars, opinions are like butt holes .... everyone has one A440 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoonful Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I don't know, but it sounds like you are judging these guitarist based on their drug use not their playing abilities or contributions. If I factor that out of the discussion, I see people who took music from where it was at at that point in time to somewhere completely different. Not only were they breaking new ground, but they certainly influenced a whole lot of people including other musicians. Truth be told, there was a lot of exploration and experimentation going on at the time, musically and otherwise. If the stories are true, that wasn't something that Jimi invented. Rumor has it that many of the jazz musicians of an earlier era were also into exploration and experimentation. They had a tremendous impact on the future of jazz. When I listen to Jimi or the Dead or the Beatles for that matter, I can be transported back in time to when it was happening. I'm not necessarily hearing with the same ear I hear recently recorded music. Some of what they did worked and worked exceptionally well and some, not so much. I give them credit for their contributions and honestly think that if they hadn't been around doing what they were doing, the world of music would have really lost out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Mac Posted April 18, 2014 Author Share Posted April 18, 2014 I get that, and I certainly would never wish or envision a world where he wasn't there or was different... I can and do wish/speculate on what could have been had he not marginalize/diminish/halt his career and legacy by cutting it dramatically short. We're missing-out on what could have been due to a choice they made and a gamble they risked... True, it's their life to live, and they don't owe anybody anything, but there is something valuable to say for staying around for the long-haul to enjoy life for the natural duration, as best as we can intend as our mortal selves, and not just feel good for the moment and throw it all away... Worse than all that is it didn't have to happen... For most of the greats that did themselves in one way or another... But, I would never wish any of them ill even if I completely disagree with the choices they made. After all, it is a free country, and that's the way it should be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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