Gibson Les Paul, 50s Tribute issues = crickets

[nlowther]

Hi guys,

 

This is my first post on this forum and sadly its to air a grievance I have with Gibson and the store that I the guitar off. Ive sent this email to both the customer service inbox, the manager, the guy who sold me the guitar and Gibson. So far I've been completely ignored, I 'm guessing because I'm 1000s of miles away in Australia. I never took Gibson for a faceless company - but i'm starting to get that impression.

 

I think the guitar is great - but it has raised doubts in my mind about Gibson's Quality control and integrity. I'd like some answers, so I can at least understand what's in store for this guitar.

 

I'd appreciate other gibson owners point of view on this.

 

Anyway here is the email. I've attached an image, will post more if anyone want to see the full extent of the crack.

 

 

 

 

Re: Gibson Les Paul, 50s Tribute - SN:107731406, purchased from The Guitar Center in LA, 20 City Blvd, W State 9070, Orange , CA, 92868 - on the 9th of Feb 2014.

 

Please see attached for images of some defects that I have noticed on my recently purchased Les Paul 50s tribute.

 

This guitar was purchased at a discount, I assumed because of the marks on the body ie. it had been scratched in the store -but It appears it has been discounted for more serious defects, either caused during manufacture or an accident after it was shipped. I assume these defects either passed Gibson Quality control or the guitar has been severely damaged at some point either in transit to the shop or in the shop - and then patched up and sold as a ‘second’, or it has been returned to Gibson and then resold at discounted prices.

 

When I bought the guitar I inspected the headstock, neck and body and apart from a few marks on the body it looked like a normal Les Paul. Since returning to Australia, I have noticed a ridge/crack on the face on the headstock, which appears to be connected with a continuous crack around the top/ back of the neck and across the face of the headstock- see photos. I took this to a reputable guitar mechanic is Sydney and he is of the opinion that the headstock has been broken at some point and then fixed, possibly during manufacture. The Gibson dealer ‘Gallins Guitars’ could not guarantee if the headstock would stay in place, he thought it was in danger of snapping!

 

Seeing these defects are in the wood - under the varnish - I cannot be attribute this to any rough handling in transit to Australia. I kept the guitar with me at all times the day I bought it in LA and on the plane trip to Australia it was with me in the cabin at all times - I relaxed the strings prior to the flight and replaced them with new ones 10 - 48 a week later.

 

This is my first Gibson and I love this guitar! so you can imagine how disappointed I was to find a crack in the headstock of a new ( even if it is discounted) Gibson. Although I love the sound and playability, I imagine it will only get worse and am reluctant to play it. I have emailed the store 'Guitar Center' where I purchased the guitar, but have not had a reply - at the very least I would like:

An explanation of the history of the guitar- eg. was it manufactured like this, passed QC and returned by the original owner when he/she noticed the cracks? or was it severly damaged and re-sold? where and by whom?

Gibsons opinion on this defect and its severity ie will it get worse? should it be fixed?, is this normal for a guitar of this type/ price range?

What are my options re: warranty if I want to pursue this further?

 

I spoke to my local Gibson dealer and he told me that Gibson Australia or Gibson IMA will not provide warranty for guitars bought in the USA - so he suggested that I contact the store and Gibson to see why this may have occurred and what action I can take/ am entitled to.

 

I appreciate your help with this matter.

 

Sincerely Nick Lowther,

 

 

So far..all Ive heard is crickets.

[SteveFord]

I don't see any image?

[BR TOAD]

First I was unable to find any images However as far as the Guitar itself...

Your guitar was made at the

Nashville Plant, TN, USA

March 18th, 2013

Production Number: 106

This being said.. Gibson's Quality control has been a very severe issue starting in the late 70's it got cleaned up and was doing much better then just on the last few years they have started again to be a hit or miss company NO doubt a Gibson is indeed a great guitar when it is looked after and one of the few that come off the line well done but as of late the Memphis Plant has not turned out es models near as high in quality as the Asia Epiphone guitars.. NOT speaking of electronic components but quality of finish and wood... Yours was manufactured at the Nashville Plant which has been better at QC but has indeed started to fall down again.. (the first lapse was what gave PRS it start in the market and the gift from PAUL to Santana was all it took)

 

IF you had not purchased the guitar at a reputable dealer which BTW GUITAR CENTER usually is... I would say from everything that you describe your Gibson is a fake.. IT sounds from your letter that the Guitar was dropped by a previous owner taken to a Luthier and fixed.. From your description I would at this stage of the game send a registered letter to the GIBSON SUPPORT NATIONAL USA HEADQUARTERS get contact info from the website as well as a registered (sign for mail) hard copy postal requesting that the guitar be inspected and fixed by the factory.. Not knowing what you paid for the guitar and is it was sold as is..IT would really help if I could see something on the problem visually.. I will say I have an early ES175 that the entire headstock had been snapped off and repaired I do not list it in my list of guitars due to the repair however I play it I string it and leave tension on it unless I am not using it over a long period of time and I still enjoy the guitar....

 

SUPPORT USA PHONE#1-800-4GIBSON (1-800-444-2766)

IF you just want it taken care of and are willing to spend the funds here is the factory restoration repair info.. IF you have and expert TECH go there first.. not a dealer but a vintage Guitar tech.. IF not GOGGLE "AUSTRALIA VINTAGE GUITAR" as I just wrote it you will find a healthy amount of VINTAGE TECHNICIANS as well as SHOPS not actually knowing where you are located in Australia.. I have played Sydney and Melbourne several years back and if you wish you may contact me ..

Good Luck with moving ahead

 

Gibson Repair & Restoration

138 12th Ave North

Nashville, Tn. 37203

Phone: (800) 4-GIBSON ext 2284; (615) 871-4500 ext 2284

Fax: (615) 469-3622

Email: repairrequest@gibson.com

We're on Facebook!

Repair and Restoration Blog

 

Re: Gibson Les Paul, 50s Tribute - SN:107731406, purchased from The Guitar Center in LA, 20 City Blvd, W State 9070, Orange , CA, 92868 - on the 9th of Feb 2014.

 

Please see attached for images of some defects that I have noticed on my recently purchased Les Paul 50s tribute.

[pauloon]

We NEED pictures....please.

[Guest Farnsbarns]

This guitar was purchased at a discount, I assumed because of the marks on the body ie. it had been scratched in the store

 

I worry that this might be the issue here. Didn't you ask for details on the discount?

 

 

I relaxed the strings prior to the flight

Or this. NEVER leave strings loose with the truss rod unloosened for any length of time.

 

All that said, we need to see pics, like others have said.

[nlowther]

I don't see any image?

 

You should be able to see these - no 7 shows the main issue.

 

https://plus.google.com/photos/101196397685583963234/albums/5986662531595653729?authkey=CNaIovuRsZaTOQ

[jaygl]

"When I bought the guitar I inspected the headstock, neck and body and apart from a few marks on the body it looked like a normal Les Paul. Since returning to Australia, I have noticed a ridge/crack on the face on the headstock, which appears to be connected with a continuous crack around the top/ back of the neck and across the face of the headstock"

Did you inspect the guitar in person while handling it, or, did you inspect pictures of it? If you inspected it in person, bought it, then took it home on your flight with you, the damage occured in transit i would guess. It looks like a fairly typical headstock break. I think most breaks occur while the guitar is in the case in fact. Unless it's something to do with the air pressure in the plane.

If you only saw pics, then send it back to the store.

[SteveFord]

Now I see the images.

 

Yeah, that's on it's way to being really ugly.

 

Anything is possible but If you didn't see this damage when you bought it and knowing how airlines treat stuff I would think the problem happened on the flight back to Australia.

 

 

 

[nlowther]

Now I see the images.

 

Yeah, that's on it's way to being really ugly.

 

Anything is possible but If you didn't see this damage when you bought it and knowing how airlines treat stuff I would think the problem happened on the flight back to Australia.

 

Thanks for your replys guys. I bought the guitar in person, Its an easy defect to miss in a shop with no natural light - I though it was just part of the grain and this is a Gibson right? I'm not expecting to seem defects like this! it hasd scratches on the body and on from the tuning pegs - I though that was it. . You can see by the varnish in the crack that it has either been repaired and then re-varnished or the crack was evident during manufacture then repaired as best they could.

 

The guitar was with me on the plane all the way in a soft case ( yes they let me take it on the plane) in the compartment above me - if anyone dropped it, I would have seen or heard it.

[SteveFord]

If it wasn't out of your sight that's a little different. You'd better get Gibson on the phone and see what they say.

[IanHenry]

I've always found Gibson's after sales service to be pretty good, they've always replied promptly. Also, as far as I'm aware Gibson don't sell seconds, so maybe you should be looking to claim from the airline?

Good luck,

 

Ian.

[pauloon]

Don't know who/why/what has damaged that guitar................BUT IT AIN'T GIBSONS FAULT.

[nlowther]

Don't know who/why/what has damaged that guitar................BUT IT AIN'T GIBSONS FAULT.

 

 

Well it is Gibsons fault that they haven't replied to me sat all - I'll try BR toads contact and see what they have to say.

 

All I can say is check your guitars well when you buy -its not enough to buy a reputable brand or from an (apparently ) reputable shop e.g. Guitar Center.

[Bender 4 Life]

the 2 "holes" in the treble side of the headstock appear to be "pin holes" from reinforcement pins commonly used in (mostly gunsmithing) broken wood repairs......

is there ANY way you can see into the holes for the possibility of the ends of brass/copper pins visible? a super strong magnifying glass maybe?

THAT would be an undeniable indication of a previous breakfree incident !!

 

best of luck to you!

[pippy]

Nasty.

 

I'm afraid to say I can't see many positives to take away from this story.

 

That would never have been allowed to leave the Gibson factory; "not even" as a 'Second'.

A 'Second' usually means there is a slight imperfection in the finish - it certainly wouldn't extend to a broken / repaired headstock.

It follows that I would not expect Gibson to get back to you. It has absolutely nothing to do with them.

 

Nor could it have happened in transit. Otherwise how could the repair have become 'refinished'?

 

It's impossible to say when the break happened, of course, but my guess would be in-store as a demo guitar.

My guess would further continue that the store then had it repaired and sold it off at a discounted price : "Sold as seen".

If so then your issue is between yourself and GC. No-one else (IMHO) is even remotely in the frame.

 

"This guitar was purchased at a discount, I assumed because of the marks on the body ie. it had been scratched in the store...

 

Sorry if this sounds unduly harsh but, as the saying goes "Assumtion is the Mother of the Cock-up".

If the guitar was, indeed, sold 'as-seen'; if you saw it; handled it ("I inspected the headstock, neck and body" ); and bought it then I doubt whether even GC has a case to answer.

From your point of view it is vitally important to find out under what terms and conditions you bought the instrument as far as any warranties and guarantees are concerned.

 

As far as the repair goes;

Much depends on who carried out the repair.

Financially-speaking it would cost Gibson more - in terms of time and effort - to repair the instrument than it would be worth to them so it's unlikely Gibson, themselves, repaired the guitar.

If this is the case it would be unfair to expect Gibson to comment on a repair which was not carried out under their auspices.

 

The good news (sort-of) is that a well-executed headstock repair will, oddly enough, usually be just as strong - if not stronger - than the neck was before the break.

 

P.

[pauloon]

Well it is Gibsons fault that they haven't replied to me sat all - I'll try BR toads contact and see what they have to say.

 

All I can say is check your guitars well when you buy -its not enough to buy a reputable brand or from an (apparently ) reputable shop e.g. Guitar Center.

 

Have you tried ringing?That guitar has had a repaired headstock break by the look....Guitar Center would have known this...your beef is with them imo.

 

I'm more than surprised Gibson have not responded,thats why I suggest ringing (free)....I once rang Gibson Europe late at night (closed)..and ended up yakking all night to a guy in Nashville...worth a go,but they will just point you back to the vendor.

[pauloon]

If the guitar was, indeed, sold 'as-seen'; if you saw it; handled it ("I inspected the headstock, neck and body" )

 

That is the crux ''sold as seen''.....must have been there when bought.

[nlowther]

Nasty.

 

I'm afraid to say I can't see many positives to take away from this story.

 

That would never have been allowed to leave the Gibson factory; "not even" as a 'Second'.

A 'Second' usually means there is a slight imperfection in the finish - it certainly wouldn't extend to a broken / repaired headstock.

It follows that I would not expect Gibson to get back to you. It has absolutely nothing to do with them.

 

Nor could it have happened in transit. Otherwise how could the repair have become 'refinished'?

 

It's impossible to say when the break happened, of course, but my guess would be in-store as a demo guitar.

My guess would further continue that the store then had it repaired and sold it off at a discounted price : "Sold as seen".

If so then your issue is between yourself and GC. No-one else (IMHO) is even remotely in the frame.

 

"This guitar was purchased at a discount, I assumed because of the marks on the body ie. it had been scratched in the store...

 

Sorry if this sounds unduly harsh but, as the saying goes "Assumtion is the Mother of the Cock-up".

If the guitar was, indeed, sold 'as-seen'; if you saw it; handled it ("I inspected the headstock, neck and body" ); and bought it then I doubt whether even GC has a case to answer.

From your point of view it is vitally important to find out under what terms and conditions you bought the instrument as far as any warranties and guarantees are concerned.

 

As far as the repair goes;

Much depends on who carried out the repair.

Financially-speaking it would cost Gibson more - in terms of time and effort - to repair the instrument than it would be worth to them so it's unlikely Gibson, themselves, repaired the guitar.

If this is the case it would be unfair to expect Gibson to comment on a repair which was not carried out under their auspices.

 

The good news (sort-of) is that a well-executed headstock repair will, oddly enough, usually be just as strong - if not stronger - than the neck was before the break.

 

P.

 

Fair point, I am hoping that last part is true as well, it looks like its been done reasonably well - I guess you can't expect much more from a $600 guitar eh? Naive tourist...guilty!

 

I'll see if I can get a explanation out of Guitar Centre - if not I think I'll just play the damn thing and forget about it, it does sound pretty awesome.

 

Thanks for your feedback, I'll post again if there are any updates.

 

ROCK ON!!!

[badbluesplayer]

It looks like it was repaired to me too. Your problem is with Guitar Center. They could not legally sell that as new.

 

Look at your receipt. It appears to show a SKU#. That's the store's code for what they sold you. I'm thinking that if the SKU# on the receipt is the number that Guitar Center uses for a new guitar, then that means that they represent that they sold you a new guitar. The SKU# is proof of that on it's face.

 

Find out if that SKU# is for a new guitar. If so, then I'll bet you'll be able to negotiate a return and refund from them. It would also be something Gibson would not be happy about. If you post that SKU# here, we can do some research and try to find out what's up. You could also call the store and tell them that your buddy bought one with this exact SKU# and that you want one too, but you're not sure exactly what your buddy bought. When they tell you what SKU is for, you can just ask them "And that would be a new guitar, right?" And see what happens.

 

Here's the thing about Guitar Center. They are a big company with lots of stores and a big online business. They try to be a good company but the individual stores are out of control. The sales people and the store managers have a reputation for being dishonest. Not all of them. Maybe just a few. Nobody knows. You cannot go into any Guitar Center store and be sure that you'll be treated respectfully. Unless you already know the store and the salesman. They have lots of satisfied customers. But they also have a horrible reputation for having dishonest people working there.

[Bluesidae]

Feel awful for you and your guitar. Every purchase should be a happy one. I have the 60's Tribute and am awe struck by it.

 

Sounds like a Blues song in the making... I hope this works out for you!

[Eracer_Team]

Oh Yeah..

Even me being a 'lame' guitar person can see that your head stock was broken right off.

 

I highly doubt it went form Gibson that way but Certainly the Dealer had it professionally fixed, hence your discount

 

as far as I know you won't get any warranty outside of USA, so you'd be best to ship it to a friend that lives close to the dealer and return it asap.

 

 

so others don't have to hunt

Here's your pictures

 

 

 

[pauloon]

''if not I think I'll just play the damn thing and forget about it, it does sound pretty awesome...''

 

 

 

Sounds a good idea...

 

As has been said, if repaired well,broken necks/headstocks are nothing to worry about....

 

Good luck,and enjoy the guitar.

[pauloon]

It looks like it was repaired to me too. Your problem is with Guitar Center. They could not legally sell that as new.

 

Look at your receipt. It appears to show a SKU#. That's the store's code for what they sold you. I'm thinking that if the SKU# on the receipt is the number that Guitar Center uses for a new guitar, then that means that they represent that they sold you a new guitar. The SKU# is proof of that on it's face.

 

Find out if that SKU# is for a new guitar. If so, then I'll bet you'll be able to negotiate a return and refund from them. It would also be something Gibson would not be happy about. If you post that SKU# here, we can do some research and try to find out what's up. You could also call the store and tell them that your buddy bought one with this exact SKU# and that you want one too, but you're not sure exactly what your buddy bought. When they tell you what SKU is for, you can just ask them "And that would be a new guitar, right?" And see what happens.

 

Here's the thing about Guitar Center. They are a big company with lots of stores and a big online business. They try to be a good company but the individual stores are out of control. The sales people and the store managers have a reputation for being dishonest. Not all of them. Maybe just a few. Nobody knows. You cannot go into any Guitar Center store and be sure that you'll be treated respectfully. Unless you already know the store and the salesman. They have lots of satisfied customers. But they also have a horrible reputation for having dishonest people working there.

 

 

SKU stands for ''stock keeping unit''...........basically just a number to track stock.

[Eracer_Team]

Good Point..

 

If it was a good discount and it seems to stay in tune and play fine then it might have been a good deal

 

 

here on the side picture you can see where they used some locking nails to hold the head stock on while repairing

 

 

[Guest Farnsbarns]

That has clearly been repaired so it left the shop like that. If it was sold as seen you're screwed, more seeing was in order. I can't quite imagine how you'd miss that. I can't quite read the receipt in that pic, is there anything on it about being sold as seen or the damage?