BluesKing777 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 'Monitored' slim. I think they like that word better. Sshhhh... Someones coming!! :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 :unsure: That sums it up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bram99 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 While my decisions to buy guitars ultimately come down to tone and playability, my appreciation for guitars goes deeper to include their beauty both in terms of design and as objects handcrafted by skilled people. It also turns out that all of my guitars are either modern versions or replicas or reissues of guitars going back to the first half of the last century. That is not why I bought them, but because of owning them, I have become a student of that history. I have bought the books and spend time reading forums etc. All of this has enriched the experience of owning the guitars I own. A few years ago I saw pics of a dark brown mahogany top x-braced LG-1 on this forum and then later learned more of this model in John's Kalamazoo Gals book. Last year I bought a Mahogany Banner LG-2 that is a replica of that guitar....JTs mahogany LG-1. He sent that guitar to Gibson, they recreated it and put out 50 higher priced Banner Mahogany LG-2s. It is a lovely guitar...the build quality is probably the nicest I have seen. But my satisfaction in the guitar also lies in part, in its story....it is my "Kalamazoo Gal".... I don't think John would mind me naming her that. I think there is a fair number of Gibson acoustic guitars owners, who are the owners of multiple Gibson acoustic guitars. I currently have three. Some of us are drawn to the brand because design, construction, playability and tone, but sometimes our desire to "collect" is also fueled by the backstory. In my opinion no one has ever done a better job than JT of connecting fine vintage guitars we see today to the people of yesteryear who made them. If I were a guitar manufacturer I would want my marketing department to be acutely aware of the different dimensions that drive buyer behavior. I don't know anything about this other than what I have read here, but it seems clear that a strong partnership would have been mutually beneficial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I hadn't looked in on this thread for a while and caught up just now. Argh! Wtf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in SLC Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 History here - Jorma & his sig Ren out the door now JT From 1989 - 2012: a Gibson Golden era. Now running on gas still in the tank from that period. But I think we are entering the world of "Gibson Brands". Soon it won't be our sort on this board. Rather sad... More than sad.. getting harder to consider any support for such a company.. Dave in SLC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in SLC Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 More than sad.. getting harder to consider any support for such a company. But it is true that there are a number of sides to any story, and I would greatly appreciate an email on the forum from someone authorized to represent Gibson Montana. Dave in SLC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 More than sad.. getting harder to consider any support for such a company.. Dave in SLC In my view, the workers who are actually building the guitars are blameless in this regard. The guitars being built are still pretty much the same as they were a few years ago, which is to say very good by my lights. On the other hand this incident is just the latest in a series of similar mistakes. The two employees I loved most at the company have been forced out. So I feel quite conflicted about Gibson acoustic. One can only hope that Henry or someone will become aware of this situation and clean house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 In my view, the workers who are actually building the guitars are blameless in this regard. The guitars being built are still pretty much the same as they were a few years ago, which is to say very good by my lights. On the other hand this incident is just the latest in a series of similar mistakes. The two employees I loved most at the company have been forced out. So I feel quite conflicted about Gibson acoustic. One can only hope that Henry or someone will become aware of this situation and clean house. Nobody buys guitars to support blameless workers though, Jerry lad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-1854Me Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 In my view, the workers who are actually building the guitars are blameless in this regard. The guitars being built are still pretty much the same as they were a few years ago, which is to say very good by my lights. On the other hand this incident is just the latest in a series of similar mistakes. The two employees I loved most at the company have been forced out. So I feel quite conflicted about Gibson acoustic. One can only hope that Henry or someone will become aware of this situation and clean house. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This..... what Jerry said. Right arm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in SLC Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This..... what Jerry said. Right arm! Yup, and a 'Farm Out!' to you too, Fred.. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-1854Me Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Yup, and a 'Farm Out!' to you too, Fred.. :) Yer just so seventies, Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannusguy2 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 This is all very disappointing. I considered JT to be a generous, knowledgeable asset here. Very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 This is all very disappointing. I considered JT to be a generous, knowledgeable asset here. Very sad. I think there are only so many times you are willing to butt your head up against a stone wall before you decide it isn't worth it, no matter how dedicated you are. I suspect JT reached that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneS Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I think there are only so many times you are willing to butt your head up against a stone wall before you decide it isn't worth it, no matter how dedicated you are. I suspect JT reached that point. I ask again- what could this forum have to do with that point? I truly am missing the proximate cause between how he was treated and breaking connection with the folks on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I ask again- what could this forum have to do with that point? I truly am missing the proximate cause between how he was treated and breaking connection with the folks on this forum. Anne, Probably he just got fed up with all things gibson. JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I don't know precisely what happened but the thing is JT many moons back reported here all sorts of details about this reissue and what had been agreed. He promised and provided guitars, x-ray info etc. Eventually they reneged on most of what they promised, diddled him, never called back, etc. He had gone to some trouble, even flying to Bozeman once or twice. Now they pretend not to know him. So it makes sense to me. Edit: I don't take JT's exit as a rejection of posters here. I think he regards this forum as a promotional arm of Gibson acoustic and because he just got diddled by same, doesn't want to contribute here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I think he regards this forum as a promotional arm of Gibson acoustic and because he just got diddled by same, doesn't want to contribute here. Yep, that about sums up my take on it. Not that I'm as fussed as some others, truth be told, it's a manufacturing company, same concept as the people who make my Rice Krispies or my vitamin infused fruit smoothies. I neither want nor expect a factory tour and I dont give a monkeys about the workers health, wealth & happiness. Before I'm shot down for that, a couple of things: A - At least it's honest B - When people start looking at the wallet in their pocket, their shoes, jeans, tops, tools, fabrics, hardware materials, foods with the same scrutiny as they do guitars and waxing on about appeasing staff in the same manner I'll take the guitar manufacturing worship more seriously but when you're surrounded by and dressed in the products of slave labour wages, child labour, inhumane working conditions and general disregard for workers well being etc.. it doesn't hold too much water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Another possibility is legal action from JT to get a fee for a large corporation using his name and materials plus use of his and his friend's Banner guitars? So, the old political 'no comment' on both sides? He is a law professor. I could be way off the mark. BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Another possibility is legal action from JT to get a fee for a large corporation using his name and materials plus use of his and his friend's Banner guitars? So, the old political 'no comment' on both sides? He is a law professor. I could be way off the mark. BluesKing777. You can expect a price increase on yer next j45 to cover the cost of that if its the case :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 You can expect a price increase on yer next j45 to cover the cost of that if its the case :) That'll come anyway...... last 2 years price hikes have been ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneS Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I think he regards this forum as a promotional arm of Gibson acoustic and because he just got diddled by same, doesn't want to contribute here. Yes, that's about the best sense I could make if it, too. But then, not a few of us here purchased his fine book detailing a period in the history of Gibson acoustic. And we followed along as he promoted the book and CD. And some of us bought copies for our friends, etc. Don't get me wrong- those were good reads and most informative, and I absolutely am not impugning his motives one whit. Nor do I feel slighted in any personal or collective way. So if hosting servers and moderating an internet forum provide sufficient nexus with the company to justify, for him, a boycott of the forum, so be it. But this "promotional arm" never treated him disrespectfully or shamefully, nor did it (as far as I can discern, at least) impede his ability to share his many stories with us or, even, to promote his own product. And, maybe there's more to this than meets the eye. Regardless, I hope he returns if, upon further review, the ruling on the field is reversed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matters Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Maybe there is a chance Gibson doesn't want him to post here anymore? They could be worried it makes them look bad? Whatever it is, it's a loss to the forum as far as I can tell but I'm sure there is a lot more to the situation than we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modoc_333 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I don't know precisely what happened but the thing is JT many moons back reported here all sorts of details about this reissue and what had been agreed. He promised and provided guitars, x-ray info etc. Eventually they reneged on most of what they promised, diddled him, never called back, etc. He had gone to some trouble, even flying to Bozeman once or twice. Now they pretend not to know him. So it makes sense to me. Edit: I don't take JT's exit as a rejection of posters here. I think he regards this forum as a promotional arm of Gibson acoustic and because he just got diddled by same, doesn't want to contribute here. That's sort of true. JT posted about what was "agreed". Gibson never did. Was this all really what was agreed by both parties? Remember that we only have one side of the story posted here on the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 What does a law professor have to gain by posting fantasy stuff here? Without saying a law qualification makes someone infallible, it does suggest it would be less likely to be a walter mitty type scenario. These stories are not alone, plenty people having dealings with Gibson feel they've been stiffed somewhere along the line, this is what corporations do. The power of the balance sheet is greater than the sorrow of walking over people to get there. You only need look at the stories behind some of the longtime dealers who now won't touch Gibson to see the ethics in play. They're in the business of selling manufactured goods, sometimes you have to burn a relationship or two along the way Either way, JT has made his choice, we have to respect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 What does a law professor have to gain by posting fantasy stuff here? Without saying a law qualification makes someone infallible, it does suggest it would be less likely to be a walter mitty type scenario. These stories are not alone, plenty people having dealings with Gibson feel they've been stiffed somewhere along the line, this is what corporations do. The power of the balance sheet is greater than the sorrow of walking over people to get there. You only need look at the stories behind some of the longtime dealers who now won't touch Gibson to see the ethics in play. They're in the business of selling manufactured goods, sometimes you have to burn a relationship or two along the way Either way, JT has made his choice, we have to respect it. JT is a very busy man, with responsibilities and interests that go way beyond what we see here. For the last few years he poured his heart, soul, and time into the Kalamazoo Gals project, probably to the detriment of those other responsibilities. I suspect he is reordering his priorities, which we all need to do from time to time. Don't take it personally, folks. It has nothing to do with those on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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