Bram Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Ok, here we go: Tone wise there's no significant difference between a solid and a swiss cheese LP, but a chambered LP is a completely different animal by its own. This personal information could be very useful for anybody who's looking for a Gibson Les Paul (Standard/Custom etc) or for anybody that wants to know a bit more about the guitar they play at the moment. I've done lots, lots of tests and experiments between chambered and solid/(swiss cheese) Les Pauls and I still like to compare them. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- CHAMBERED VS SOLID/SWISS CHEESE: note: these are all personal findings. - Chambered Les Pauls have a brighter, more open, punchier, woodier and less compressed tone. I find them perfect for clean blues and lighter rock styles. Great bite. However, the more gain added, the less open the tone. Guitarists can complain about the thin and harsh tone coming from chambered Les Pauls. - Solid (swiss cheese) Les Pauls clearly have a warmer, more rounded, mellower and a bit more compressed tone. I find them perfect for clean jazz, fusion and leads (regardless the amount of distortion). It's a lead guitar in any aspect. Notes blend together easier. Guitarists can complain about the 'muddy', 'dark' tone coming from solid/swiss cheese Les Pauls. The negative points from both a chambered and solid/swiss cheese Les Paul can be solved in most cases with proper pickups/electronics for the particular guitar. You can decrease harshness or mud, but the characteristics from the individual Les Pauls remain for 90% the same as before. A chambered les Paul is never going to sound like a solid bodied/swiss cheesed Les Paul and vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Solid is not equal to swiss cheese... I couldnt care less for all the body types we have (pancake anyone?), but purists and some snobs will tell you only a solid body is good and the rest is sh-t, some other snobs will tell you only a reissue is good and USA gibson is sh-t... For me it doesnt matter if the guitar is custom shop, reissue, chambered, hollow, solid, pancake, swees cheese, or whatever, as long as it looks as I want it to and sounds as I need it too. The rest is bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepblue Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Well put Bram. Gibson did research with the chambered and came up with pickups that best suit their mannerisms. I have been told that BB Pros on a true solid body guitar sound flat. Theres not alot of dynamic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHawk233 Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 So is that the reason the VM has BB pros? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slogold Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Solid is not equal to swiss cheese... I couldnt care less for all the body types we have (pancake anyone?)' date=' but purists and some snobs will tell you only a solid body is good and the rest is sh-t, some other snobs will tell you only a reissue is good and USA gibson is sh-t... For me it doesnt matter if the guitar is custom shop, reissue, chambered, hollow, solid, pancake, swees cheese, or whatever, as long as it looks as I want it to and sounds as I need it too. The rest is bullshit.[/quote'] AMEN TO THAT!!!!!! PEACE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bram Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 I have been told that BB Pros on a true solid body guitar sound flat. Theres not alot of dynamic. That could be 100% true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LPC Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 If I can get an awesome sound from my old Teisco with a thin plywood body, swimming pool rout, loose neck, a rattling zero fret and only one screw holding the bridge on, I'm sure that a chambered LP would sound pretty good. But...I'm starting to wonder what is the point of a Les Paul guitar ? As Bram says, the chambered ones are very different - it's morphing into something else. Woody, and more acoustically resonant is fine, but there are plenty of semi-solid ES style guitars that are going to do this better. The reduced weight is good, but then you might as well buy an SG because there's not much difference between them now. And the SG beats the LP hands-down for access. So does it come down to appearance ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bram Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 For me it doesnt matter if the guitar is custom shop' date=' reissue, chambered, hollow, solid, pancake, swees cheese, or whatever, as long as it looks as I want it to and sounds as I need it too. The rest is bullshit.[/quote'] 'Custom Shop' or 'Reissue' -> those concepts aren't directly related with the 'tone' of a Les Paul, so + 100000. On the other hand, concepts like chambered, hollow, solid, pancake, swiss cheese are definately not bull**** because they all have their influences on the overall tone of a Les Paul. I agree with 80LPC. There isn't much difference anymore between a Les Paul, SG or Tele; that's all because of the reduced weight and the large chambers inside the LP body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cajunman831 Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 A Gibson is a great guitar like a Fender.If it sounds good and plays good,that,s all that counts.It took me a while to adjust to a Gibson due to the fact I was a Strat guy for years.I ignore the hype that is said on any guitar,until I try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LPC Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 One day I've had several offers from Gibson salesmen and musicians that really fell in love with my 80's LP Sounds familiar Sometimes there would be a knock at the door, and it would be younger, local guitarists who would say "can we see your Les Paul Custom." They had good quality guitars, but there is a difference when you own something which is an icon in rock music. Maybe the chambered LPs will become iconic also given time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bram Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 Another thing to mention: ebony has a different tone than rosewood. Ebony = slightly more attack, tighter tone (especially in the bass). Rosewood = less attack, overall sweeter, 'warmer' tone. I prefer ebony on Les Pauls. 80LPC: Nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 On the other hand' date=' concepts like chambered, hollow, solid, pancake, swiss cheese are definately not bull**** because they all have their influences on the overall tone of a Les Paul. [/quote'] Agreed. And I knew all of that before you posted it... my point is that saying any given guitar, lets say a gregg bennet (samick) "is better because..." is just bullsh-t. I think a guitar is an instrument, a tool, and it has to serve a purpose. If you want to play her than that purpose is to play good, and sound good, for some of us it has to look good too. But that's all there is to it (at least for players). So, anyone saying a guitar is better or not worthy just because it was made of a single piece of wood from brazil or plywood is just full of it. 50 years back, guitars were made with what was around. Same goes for amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LPC Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 So' date=' anyone saying a guitar is better or not worthy just because it was made of a single piece of wood from brazil or plywood is just full of it. [/quote'] I'm glad no one said anything like that on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Smoking pot is legal in Holland, huh? Murph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bram Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 Haha, it is legal indeed...but I don't puff it. Every les Paul has its own characteristics, chambered or not. In fact, the chambered LP Standard Faded is the one I play the most (for several reasons). I plays very easy with super low action, it has a great tone (especially with the pickup upgrade I did about a year ago) + I don't have to worry a lot when playing it (because it was and still is a cheap Gibson). It's a blues(y) machine. The 80's LP Standard (with ebony board) is the Les Paul with more class. It feels a lot more solid/heavy and the tone is as thick and smooth as a mofo. It's also a much more expensive and rare guitar. They only made 200 of mine, it was a very special edition. Apart from these special things, the guitar is just like an ordinary 80's LP Custom. It's more a LP Custom instead of 'Standard', because of the ebony board and the Silverburst finish on the top. So... The chambered Les Paul is the winner for pure blues and classic/vintage rock. The solid Les Paul is the winner for thick, rounded Jazz and hardrock/metal (lead). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eracer_Team Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Don't know if you guy's missed this, but this is direct off the Gibson USA site... http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/Supreme/Features.aspx "The Gibson Logo There is no mistaking the classic, hand-crafted mother of pearl logo, inlayed into a pressed fiber-head veneer that is then glued to the face of the mahogany headstock. A thin coat of lacquer finishes the process" When did they start using "pressed fiber-head veneer"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axuality Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Okay, -- first let me establish that I'm a hardcore Gibson guy. I've owned a 335 for 36 years. And hardly ever any other guitar at the same time. Nothing compares to a Gibson for me. That said, I bought an Epiphone LP Standard, listed at about $530 at online music stores. Can anyone tell me if it is solid, swiss-cheese or chambered? Unless I'm hallucinating, it seems heavier than some Les Pauls and lighter than a Custom LP. I love the guitar even tho it's not a Gibson. My 335 is finer, but the Epi LP is sure nice to play. Man, the way you feel the notes through the wood, instead of through the body cavity (which is cool too) as in the 335. Thanks for your help. And not exactly a sales plug, but just let me say: www.axuality.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fingers galore Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 For me it doesnt matter if the guitar is custom shop' date=' reissue, chambered, hollow, solid, pancake, swees cheese, or whatever, as long as it looks as I want it to and sounds as I need it too.[/quote'] + 1. People have their preferences. That is fine. However playability and sound are all that really matter in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobv Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 When did they start using "pressed fiber-head veneer"? It's one of the differences between a GibsonUSA and a Historic Reissue. Not a selling point on its own, of course, but holly wood veneers were used originally and you can sometimes see the wood grain printing through when the lacquer shrinks (whereas the newer fiber ones stay smooth). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bram Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 However playability and sound are all that really matter in the end. That's what I referred to say. However...I think 'tone' will always be the winner in the end. Playability is something you can get used to and which you can learn to 'accept' (if the tone is great). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALIEN8 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Chambered and Ebony board won my heart, and quite easily over solid with ebony and rose wood (and over an R9 for that matter!!) It's all what you like. But it does to metal well, though not like my SG - unless I EQ b4 pre-amp :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bram Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 Chambered and Ebony board won my heart' date=' and quite easily over solid with ebony and rose wood (and over an R9 for that matter!!) It's all what you like. But it does to metal well, though not like my SG - unless I EQ b4 pre-amp [img']http://forum.gibson.com/public/style_emoticons/default/eusa_shhh.gif[/img] I haven't tried a chambered LP with ebony board myself...sounds nice, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manimal Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Okay' date=' -- first let me establish that I'm a hardcore Gibson guy. I've owned a 335 for 36 years. And hardly ever any other guitar at the same time. Nothing compares to a Gibson for me. That said, I bought an Epiphone LP Standard, listed at about $530 at online music stores. Can anyone tell me if it is solid, swiss-cheese or chambered? Unless I'm hallucinating, it seems heavier than some Les Pauls and lighter than a Custom LP. I love the guitar even tho it's not a Gibson. My 335 is finer, but the Epi LP is sure nice to play. Man, the way you feel the notes through the wood, instead of through the body cavity (which is cool too) as in the 335. Thanks for your help. And not exactly a sales plug, but just let me say: www.axuality.com[/quote'] Hey there axuality, The Epiphone LP's are the official "licensed" Les Paul Copy, and obviously owned by Gibson. They are totally a solid body guitar, and you got a pretty good deal on yours. But make no mistake, while being a solid body, it is fairly unknown as to what kind of solid body. There is no actual maple cap used, just a thin maple top veneer, and the body can be a mix of luan/alder/agathys/etc. Sometimes from 4-9! pieces! Bottom line though, if it looks good, feels and sounds good, then you absolutely got a good one! Overall, I think that we can all agree that tone is in the ear of the beholder. Who's to say exactly how an LP is supposed to sound anyway? As long as mine sounds great in general (and it DOES!LOL), thats all thats important to me. At least Gibson is openly listing complete specs now with all their guitars, and give the consumer options. Starting in late 06', LP's were chambered and that wasn't disclosed until people were suspicious about the wieght and started X-raying!! OOPS! Anyway, I hate the whole "this ones better than those ones" threads that allways grip onto this topic. Its totally subjective, and if someone prefers the feel/weight/tone/sound of a chambered model, you can buy it (Gibson never really had this as an option in the past). If you want the weight/tone/sound/feel of the ole' Swiss, you can buy it. I have a Swiss, I'd love to add a Chambered as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bram Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 Overall' date=' I think that we can all agree that tone is in the ear of the beholder. Who's to say exactly how an LP is supposed to sound anyway? As long as mine sounds great in general (and it DOES!LOL), thats all thats important to me. At least Gibson is openly listing complete specs now with all their guitars, and give the consumer options. Starting in late 06', LP's were chambered and that wasn't disclosed until people were suspicious about the wieght and started X-raying!! OOPS! Anyway, I hate the whole "this ones better than those ones" threads that allways grip onto this topic. Its totally subjective, and if someone prefers the feel/weight/tone/sound of a chambered model, you can buy it (Gibson never really had this as an option in the past). If you want the weight/tone/sound/feel of the ole' Swiss, you can buy it. I have a Swiss, I'd love to add a Chambered as well.[/quote'] Thanks for your very clear enlightenment. The tone from a particular Les Paul is certainly in the ear of the beholder. I always test how they sound 'in general'; that's the way I judge if it's a 'good' or 'bad' LP. A good Les Paul has to be very versatile to my opinion (from clean blues/classic rock to ballsy hardrock/metal), which means that the pickups have to be great, together with quality, good working volume/tone knobs and caps. Every Les Paul deserves (and needs) a pickup upgrade or different pots to sound at their best. With 'best' I mean a balanced tone from bass to treble, without those muddy lows a LP is known for (especially in the neck position). Once you got the 'balance', you'll notice that they all sound great, but all with their personal/unique character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LPC Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Interesting points. Gibson didn't offer the chambered in the past - and now they are not offering the option of a solid body unless you have big bucks for the custom shop models. So the choice is not there. The average buyer has to have a chambered or swiss cheese. It's ironic because the cheapest Les Paul would be the solid one as these don't need the extra machine / labour costs. Could it be so bad to have the solid option ? Of course, sound is subjective, and people say "if I like the looks and the sound I want it", well it just might be that a great sounding guitar has been snatched from under your nose because the option of a solid is not there at that price point. You just end up comparing the best of the choice you've been given. Multi - laminate bodies can sound good. And Agathis is a cost-effective tonewood. In the '70s, Gibson themselves used laminates with the 'pancake' bodies. It's seen as cost-cutting, so maybe it wasn't too smart for a prestigious company to be doing this. They certainly got flak for doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.