blindboygrunt Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Been oogling the posh tuners in the thread here. There's absolutely no arguing the looks of the waverly tuners . and couldn't argue that the quality isn't there. I'd love a set for my guitar . When I got my j45 I bought grover sta-tite open backed tuners. a, because I love the look of open back tuners and b, because the klusons on it seemed a little , well , crappy. Not smooth and a little cheap looking. Question is , my grovers are pretty , well finished and very smooth in operation. Like , smooth. Am having trouble imagining how anything could turn smoother. Do the waverlys not go out of tune at all ? Is there a smoother state of being than 'smooth'? Anyone have grover sta-tites AND also waverlys on two different guitars tell me the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kebob Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I'm probably more low maintenance than most when it comes to tuners. I've got numerous brands of tuners on my guitars, some I don't even know which brand. They all stay in tune and I've never thought twice about replacing whatever tuners came with the guitar with one exception: my J-200 would look better with tulip-style tuners. But the stock tuners it came with, while not the greatest, are fine. You pay money for a high-end acoustic, the stock tuners should stay in tune. Guess what I'm saying is for me, probably not worth the money in swapping tuners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Damn right they are, much more important than correct pickgurd placement. Butter beans on slopes, Tulips on dreads and jumbos, accept nothing less I say ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Been oogling the posh tuners in the thread here. There's absolutely no arguing the looks of the waverly tuners . and couldn't argue that the quality isn't there. I'd love a set for my guitar . When I got my j45 I bought grover sta-tite open backed tuners. a, because I love the look of open back tuners and b, because the klusons on it seemed a little , well , crappy. Not smooth and a little cheap looking. Question is , my grovers are pretty , well finished and very smooth in operation. Like , smooth. Am having trouble imagining how anything could turn smoother. Do the waverlys not go out of tune at all ? Is there a smoother state of being than 'smooth'? Anyone have grover sta-tites AND also waverlys on two different guitars tell me the difference? I have both tuners. The Sta-tites are nice because of the 18:1 fine tuning ratio. I think most of the Waverly tuners are not that fine. However there is a level of precision and polish in the machining of the parts which is visible to the naked eye, and (assuming you've got a bit of graphite in the nut slot and not hanging up there) you can I think feel the difference in the smoothness of the turn. The question you are asking - is this difference worth it? - is unanswerable except in the context of the amount of disposable cash in your budget, how you feel about owning fine as opposed to good things, how sensitive you are to the differences from a perceptual point of view and from a judgement or conclusion point of view. My advice is if you have Sta-tites and are not unhappy with them, stick with them unless your rich uncle pops off and leaves you with scads of dough. If you have rotomatics, particularly the mini-rotomatics, I would consider upgrading, especially if this is a favorite instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 I have both tuners. The Sta-tites are nice because of the 18:1 fine tuning ratio. I think most of the Waverly tuners are not that fine. However there is a level of precision and polish in the machining of the parts which is visible to the naked eye, and (assuming you've got a bit of graphite in the nut slot and not hanging up there) you can I think feel the difference in the smoothness of the turn. The question you are asking - is this difference worth it? - is unanswerable except in the context of the amount of disposable cash in your budget, how you feel about owning fine as opposed to good things, how sensitive you are to the differences from a perceptual point of view and from a judgement or conclusion point of view. My advice is if you have Sta-tites and are not unhappy with them, stick with them unless your rich uncle pops off and leaves you with scads of dough. If you have rotomatics, I would consider upgrading, especially if this is a favorite instrument. Cheers jerry. That's a great answer exactly along the lines of my thinking. The piece stuck in the nut is a good analogy. I can understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Working Mans Blue Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 personally i think no. Some tuners have better ratios, but that has never bothered me one bit. but the main thing is ive never run into tuning problems with cheap tuners that could be fixed by fixing problems at the nut. Tuning problems are 90% of time a result of a problem at the nut, saddle, or worn out strings. 10% of the time the tuners are slipping backwards and not holding the tension, it happens but its pretty rare. That said, i cant stand those big bulky grover rotos that gibson, and every other company for the matter seem to love to put on guitars. man theyre ugly my point is though, that tuners dont actually have as much to do with tuning stability as you might think, however some do turn smoother than others, but even that can be solved with a little lube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 personally i think no. Some tuners have better ratios, but that has never bothered me one bit. but the main thing is ive never run into tuning problems with cheap tuners that could be fixed by fixing problems at the nut. Tuning problems are 90% of time a result of a problem at the nut, saddle, or worn out strings. 10% of the time the tuners are slipping backwards and not holding the tension, it happens but its pretty rare. That said, i cant stand those big bulky grover rotos that gibson, and every other company for the matter seem to love to put on guitars. man theyre ugly my point is though, that tuners dont actually have as much to do with tuning stability as you might think, however some do turn smoother than others, but even that can be solved with a little lube I hear ya. But I don't have tuning troubles. Might need a wee tweak if I don't lift the guitar for a week. But thats about it.Jerrys explanation of 'feeling' the string sticking slightly was a good one, bit like a Porsche feeling every little nuance in the road. Do I need a Porsche ? No . do I want a Porsche ? Maybe ! This question is a very shallow one and has little to do with anything other than 'wow ain't those waverlys pretty !' Which they are :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Working Mans Blue Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 i do admit theyre pretty and i do admit i want them, but i dont think theyre worth it. Besides i love my klusons, i have klusons on all three of my guitars, electrics and acoustics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 i do admit theyre pretty and i do admit i want them, but i dont think theyre worth it. Besides i love my klusons, i have klusons on all three of my guitars, electrics and acoustics I wish I had got the white buttons.euroaussie is right. Its only after all this time and all the images of j45's that I release that. White buttons just belong on them. But I'm wary of putting the klusons back on in case I miss the smoothness of the Grovers. You don't have any issues with the tuners ? Three in one oil ? Cure all ? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I guess I'm in the camp that if the guitar stays in tune, I really don't care what brand/appearance gears are involved. And has has been noted, usually if there's a tuning difficulty, it's as likely to be the nut or the strings themselves. It may be that I'm getting older, too. But the bottom line is not whether the guitar has buttons I think are pretty, but if it ain't broke, why fix it? I'm not all that pretty either, but I went for storebought teeth because the original equipment had pretty well failed. I doubt anybody figures I'm any prettier, but the intent wasn't "pretty," but because eating is a lot easier than without - and similarly, tuning a guitar is easier with functional stuff regardless of what one thinks is pretty regardless of price tag. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Working Mans Blue Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I wish I had got the white buttons.euroaussie is right. Its only after all this time and all the images of j45's that I release that. White buttons just belong on them. But I'm wary of putting the klusons back on in case I miss the smoothness of the Grovers. You don't have any issues with the tuners ? Three in one oil ? Cure all ? Cheers I actually prefer the way the klusons work compared to the Grover's. The Grover's are smoother but I think they're too smooth really, it's easy to pass up the note that I'm trying to get to, so I like a little bit of friction really. Now the original 50s klusons I have on my lg2 are much too stiff, I need to get some oil in them and see if I can make them better, but I fear it's past that point now. If it wasn't a vintage guitar with original tuners I would've already replaced them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Damn right they are, much more important than correct pickgurd placement. Butter beans on slopes, Tulips on dreads and jumbos, accept nothing less I say ! I quite agree, but have the feeling you mean ovals when you say butterbeans. Have noticed this earlier and did the same mistake before getting lit up. Let me hear what you say. . . https://www.google.com/search?q=butterbean+tuners&newwindow=1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=sg8zU5v9LqX9ywOhk4GwDQ&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=628 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 My snake-wood three on an leaf-ornamented brass-plate Waverlys on the 12-fret are nice to look and works well*. But in no way better than what I have on different Gibsons. . * even think the D or G is a bit stiff, , , or inaccurate - maybe it's has loosened up, not sure. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Damn right they are, much more important than correct pickgurd placement. Butter beans on slopes, Tulips on dreads and jumbos, accept nothing less I say ! I put new Imperial buttons the Grovers on my J200. No need to change the tuner if you're happy with it.. just change the buttons. I have gold Grovers on my SWD, Grover Sta-tites on my Yamaha FG150 and, once I get a moment, Waverlys on the Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 YES,ovals ... I always thought they were called butterbeans though. Thanks for the clarification Em7. Gotta have those on a slope and Tulips on squares and jumbos. Everything else is 2nd rate in my book. Although butterbeans do look great on the AJ admittedly, probably the only exception to the rule I reckon. I quite agree, but have the feeling you mean ovals when you say butterbeans. Have noticed this earlier and did the same mistake before getting lit up. Let me hear what you say. . . https://www.google.com/search?q=butterbean+tuners&newwindow=1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=sg8zU5v9LqX9ywOhk4GwDQ&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=628 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Been oogling the posh tuners in the thread here. There's absolutely no arguing the looks of the waverly tuners . and couldn't argue that the quality isn't there. I'd love a set for my guitar . When I got my j45 I bought grover sta-tite open backed tuners. a, because I love the look of open back tuners and b, because the klusons on it seemed a little , well , crappy. Not smooth and a little cheap looking. Question is , my grovers are pretty , well finished and very smooth in operation. Like , smooth. Am having trouble imagining how anything could turn smoother. Do the waverlys not go out of tune at all ? Is there a smoother state of being than 'smooth'? Anyone have grover sta-tites AND also waverlys on two different guitars tell me the difference? Hey BBG, to answer the question of your post directly....and IMHO, of course... Tuners are only worth the money, if they make you happy......simple as that! I don,t subscribe to the "one brand better than the other club. Either they function.... or they don,t.... OR (either they look 'correct' on the guitar), ....or they don't :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danner Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I have a set of open back Gotoh tuners on my D21, and they tune easier and hold tune better than any other guitars I have. So I think it maters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6stringTom Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Like everything else, "worth the money," depends on how much you've got and what else you need (want) to buy. Certainly there are many tuners that will do the job. The Waverly's are worth it to me because they are easy to use--smooth and stay in tune well. Once I tried them, I was hooked. But there are other tuners that do the basic job quite adequately and I have some of those as well. Waverly's are a 16:1 ratio, and one thing I find is that they make fine tuning easier once you get used to them. By the way, Waverly's should never be oiled. I don't know if the same is true of the Grover Sta-tites. I understand them to be similarly high quality but made in Asia, whereas Waverly's are made in Bozeman. That's important to me personally, but it doesn't mean they will make your guitar sound better or that you share my values regarding place of production. By the way, I don't consider Waverly's to be fancy, just really well made. After spending a few thousand on a guitar, I don't mind spending a little more to get great tuners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 three questions: Is there a problem with current tuners? How much are tuners you fancy? Would you rather have the tuners on your guitar or that amount in your pockets? Two ways to look at it: There's nowt actually wrong with the current ones, I could use that more for better purposes at the moment. It's only money, what's the point of piling it up if you don't actually buy stuff with it One solution: Buy them. There's nothing quite as glorious as a little bit of self indulgence. They'll last forever and it's nice to have nice things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 three questions: Is there a problem with current tuners? How much are tuners you fancy? Would you rather have the tuners on your guitar or that amount in your pockets? Two ways to look at it: There's nowt actually wrong with the current ones, I could use that more for better purposes at the moment. It's only money, what's the point of piling it up if you don't actually buy stuff with it One solution: Buy them. There's nothing quite as glorious as a little bit of self indulgence. They'll last forever and it's nice to have nice things. It was more of a problem with me understanding how much better they could possibly be. The sta-tites are very good and I had trouble seeing an improvement on such a simple thing as a tuner. To use the car analogy again, I might not be a good enough driver to appreciate the handling of an expensive sports car so , while its worth its value , not to me..., but these are bits of metal that turn and tighten a string . I still want some , as I miss the white buttons and am in love with the aged ones someone posted a while back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 It was more of a problem with me understanding how much better they could possibly be. The sta-tites are very good and I had trouble seeing an improvement on such a simple thing as a tuner. To use the car analogy again, I might not be a good enough driver to appreciate the handling of an expensive sports car so , while its worth its value , not to me..., but these are bits of metal that turn and tighten a string . I still want some , as I miss the white buttons and am in love with the aged ones someone posted a while back. I know mate, I just wanted to post the three-two-one part and I should have finished the post with a nice pic of dusty bin, so here we go.... I had waverlys on the Martin I owned, the 0-28VS, undoubtedly they're nice.... an extra hundred quid nice is a different question. Can't say I'm too fond of the look of the stock ones on the J-45, but as they're not broken I haven't fixed them ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 One solution: Buy them. There's nothing quite as glorious as a little bit of self indulgence. They'll last forever and it's nice to have nice things. This one ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemoonofky Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I have Waverly Tuners on all my Martins because I didn't like the martin logo open back. I know that is blasphemy, but I could not be happier with the Waverly tuners on my HD28V and D18V. On my Hummingbird and Songwriter I took off those big clunky Grovers and installed Kluson's. It all boils down to what you like and what you're willing to pay! The Waverly are not cheap, but neither are some of my favorite guitars! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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