capmaster Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 This might have been asked before, but I wasn't able to find a definitive answer to my topic question. When looking at Gibson product pages, the headstock inlay typical for SG Standards and also appearing on some other models is called Crown Inlay. It is often referred to as Holly Inlay though. I guess there is some historical reason for that. Helpful comments contributing to a clarification will be gladly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
slimt Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 I believe they refer to the Holly wood , the black veneer on the face of the peghead that surrounds the Crown inlay..
CaptainNemo68 Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 Not sure, I always call that the flowerpot inlay because to me it looks like a small flowerpot with a small plant or flower. But I know the true "flowerpot" inlay is the one on some of the older ES models and it is a huge inlay that is quite different than the holly inlay. Here is the headstock of my ES339 Trad Pro with what I erroneously call the "flowerpot" inlay:
Pin Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 I believe they refer to the Holly wood , the black veneer on the face of the peghead that surrounds the Crown inlay.. That has always been how I understood the Holly aspect.
capmaster Posted March 30, 2014 Author Posted March 30, 2014 I believe they refer to the Holly wood , the black veneer on the face of the peghead that surrounds the Crown inlay.. So the veneer is stained holly timber? Around 1980 I read in a late 1970's book it was ebony. Perhaps this information referred to vintage Gibsons, and they changed hands someday?
slimt Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 So the veneer is stained holly timber? Around 1980 I read in a late 1970's book it was ebony. Perhaps this information referred to vintage Gibsons, and they changed hands someday? No... the inlay and logo are inset into the Holly Veneer as or ebony, If they dont use that type of product.. the wording remains the same.. especially if its a reissue. or Vintage recreation.
Searcy Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 Holly is used as face veneer for the head stocks. Sometimes a type of black vulcanized cardboard called "Forbon" is used.
MrNylon Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 I always just went by the product description. Headstock Inlay: Mother of Pearl Gibson Logo + Holly.
BigKahune Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 I believe they refer to the Holly wood , the black veneer on the face of the peghead that surrounds the Crown inlay.. +1 The shape of the inaly is generally called a "crown", but many call it a "thistle", while Gibson sometimes refers to the inlay shape as a "thistle crown". And again, traditionally the overlay veneer on the head stock is of Holly wood. You can check this Gibson page under "Product Features" and see Gibson '"Thistle" Crown Peghead Logo' - http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Acoustic-Instruments/Square-Shoulder/Gibson-Acoustic/Hummingbird-True-Vintage.aspx .
capmaster Posted March 30, 2014 Author Posted March 30, 2014 Thank you all very much for sharing your knowledge.
RRIDER Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 How would you all that claim Holly is the wood on the headstock explain the definition here? Mother of pearl "Holly" ? http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/ES/Gibson-Memphis/ES-339/Specs.aspx I'm not saying you're wrong...Just that I'm a little confused. Gibson does seem to try to keep us on our toes.
retrorod Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 I believe they refer to the Holly wood , the black veneer on the face of the peghead that surrounds the Crown inlay.. BINGO
retrorod Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 How would you all that claim Holly is the wood on the headstock explain the definition here? Mother of pearl "Holly" ? http://www2.gibson.c...-339/Specs.aspx I would say...."too much Forward-Thinking" by a new generation of marketeers. Simple as that!
capmaster Posted March 30, 2014 Author Posted March 30, 2014 How would you all that claim Holly is the wood on the headstock explain the definition here? Mother of pearl "Holly" ? http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/ES/Gibson-Memphis/ES-339/Specs.aspx I'm not saying you're wrong...Just that I'm a little confused. Gibson does seem to try to keep us on our toes. I would say...."too much Forward-Thinking" by a new generation of marketeers. Simple as that! Guess that's what makes people like me thinking of a MOP Holly, not a MOP Thistle or Crown ;)
RRIDER Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 I would say...."too much Forward-Thinking" by a new generation of marketeers. Simple as that! I don't think it is as simple as that! I realize the Holly wood was or still may be used for the veneer of the headstock, but Gibson does seem to refer to the "crown" inlay some times as Holly. It's in the description of the difference in SG Standard and special. The standard has the Holly (crown) the special doesn't. http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/ProductSpotlight/GearAndInstruments/whats-the-difference-521/
capmaster Posted March 30, 2014 Author Posted March 30, 2014 I don't think it is as simple as that without proof! I realize the Holly wood was or still may be used for the veneer of the headstock, but Gibson does seem to refer to the "crown" inlay some times as Holly. It's in the description of the difference in SG Standard and special. The standard has the Holly (crown) the special doesn't. http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/ProductSpotlight/GearAndInstruments/whats-the-difference-521/ This is puzzling. Didn't foresee there is so much to learn about it
RRIDER Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 Another description by Gibson calling the "crown" Gibson's traditional holly symbol. http://www.gibson.com/en-us/divisions/gibson%20usa/products/gotm/lespaullp-295goldtop/
Guest Farnsbarns Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 I think at some time someone at Gibson has erroneously called the inlay "holly" having been mislead by the fact that the veneer is holly. This mistake I believe has lingered and made it in to collective consciousness at Gibson. The inlay is called the thistle, or crown, or thistle crown, the veneer is holly on cs reissues and forbon on most USA lines now I believe.
retrorod Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 Back to what I posted earlier! Do not read too much into the 'modern day' speak... RRider.
retrorod Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 I don't think it is as simple as that! I realize the Holly wood was or still may be used for the veneer of the headstock, but Gibson does seem to refer to the "crown" inlay some times as Holly. It's in the description of the difference in SG Standard and special. The standard has the Holly (crown) the special doesn't. http://www.gibson.co...difference-521/ Hello RRider, the SG is a 'prime example' of Gibsons' various 'changes and models'.... It used to be 'cut and dryed' "back in the day" and then they went "grasping for straws" with new variants to garner "buyer interest".....It is a real nightmare to decipher what 'model' a 70's-on SG 'is'... TRUTH....the peghead had a holly veneer, through the 60's and another Fibre composite after that. The rest....call it what you want...I am tired! Once again, I MUST ask????? Do they NOT teach 'comprehension' in school anymore????
RRIDER Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 Back to what I posted earlier! Do not read too much into the 'modern day' speak... RRider. Dude, read my posts..I clearly stated and showed proof that Gibson refers to the crown as a holly. Did I ever say you were wrong? No!! but you keep coming back telling me I am. I'm tired of this too.
RRIDER Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 Hello RRider, the SG is a 'prime example' of Gibsons' various 'changes and models'.... It used to be 'cut and dryed' "back in the day" and then they went "grasping for straws" with new variants to garner "buyer interest".....It is a real nightmare to decipher what 'model' a 70's-on SG 'is'... TRUTH....the peghead had a holly veneer, through the 60's and another Fibre composite after that. The rest....call it what you want...I am tired! Once again, I MUST ask????? Do they NOT teach 'comprehension' in school anymore???? No need for that kind of sarcasm!
Jimi Mac Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 How would you all that claim Holly is the wood on the headstock explain the definition here? Mother of pearl "Holly" ? http://www2.gibson.c...-339/Specs.aspx I'm not saying you're wrong...Just that I'm a little confused. Gibson does seem to try to keep us on our toes. I suppose it could originally simply be based upon the basic shape of the Holly leaf: Something about the points/spines that it resembles? It is a bit odd to be called that to an extent because it's not obvious...
btoth76 Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Hello! As it has been said before: the black veneer on the headstock is made of wood holly (Ilex aquifolium). There is a woodworking term - that might be the source of the confusion -, called the crown-cut veneer. "Is the most widely used. It is manufactured by advancing a half log against a stationary knife in an up-and-down movement. The resulting cut is characterized by straight grain intermixed with cathedrals. This method is moderately priced and is available for most wood species." Source: http://www.hrzn.net/Grading/veneer_cutting_methods.htm) I am quite sure, that the "crown inlay" refers to the shape of the decorative article most often seen on ES and SG models, which is made of mother-of-pearl. The "flowerpot" inlay is typical for Byrdland models, while the "double-diamond" (officially, but a.k.a. "split-diamond") inlay is reserved for top-of-the-range Gibson instruments. Cheers... Bence
Jimi Mac Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Hello! As it has been said before: the black veneer on the headstock is made of wood holly (Ilex aquifolium). There is a woodworking term - that might be the source of the confusion -, called the crown-cut veneer. "Is the most widely used. It is manufactured by advancing a half log against a stationary knife in an up-and-down movement. The resulting cut is characterized by straight grain intermixed with cathedrals. This method is moderately priced and is available for most wood species." Source: http://www.hrzn.net/...ing_methods.htm) I am quite sure, that the "crown inlay" refers to the shape of the decorative article most often seen on ES and SG models, which is made of mother-of-pearl. The "flowerpot" inlay is typical for Byrdland models, while the "double-diamond" (officially, but a.k.a. "split-diamond") inlay is reserved for top-of-the-range Gibson instruments. Cheers... Bence I suppose in my on ignorance and confusion, I'm just not really getting past the idea of Black Veneer... I guess I actually thought the black on the headstock is just a black paint finish... It's a veneer? It still doesn't make a lot of sense because they call it "Holly" as a descriptive term to describe the Inlay. Maybe refering to Mother of Pearl in or over Holly... I think I may just give up caring about it in short order...
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