awel Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 So, this is it after 1 year and a half, my blues rock trio splits. We have still one show to do on the 12th of April, but still under discussion if we'll do or not. I am very disapointed, I was the guitar/vocal and the bass player is normally a guitar player so I think it comes from there, every practice we had he was telling us: "if only I could sing, it would have been different and my band would have had more shows than we" These last months we had a lot of discussion because his point of view about practicing is that you only have to work the beginning and the end of a song, his words are 'come on, it is just blues, except the intro the rest is just blues rythm, no need to work out' I totally disagree on that, to me it is better to have a set list of 10 tracks you perfectly got than 25 that you 'almost' have. But to him, this should be part of homework not band practice! that guy wants to rehearse 2 or 3 times a week but I have a 6 months old baby, so I don't have the same availability at 39 than when I was 20! So now, I don't know what to do, I have been asked to join a classic rock band but, what I really enjoy is blues rock, so should I join the classic rock band or should I go and start a new blues rock trio and do what I really like? I am confused ... Does anyone already faced that kind of situation?
daveinspain Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Do what you want to do. Life is too short to settle for something else. Right now you are 39, not 20... Tomorrow you will be 59 not 20
capmaster Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Well, I have been through that several times in the past and currently am stuck in the middle of a band reformation. Unclear situations within a band may lead to a war of nerves which finally will change nothing for better in most cases, at least not without changes in lineup. First, I think playing together blindly is an important aspect. When playing deafly in a double sense instead, there's no playing like a band should. Jamming around might help in finding out if players will find together or not. Second thing is working on arrangements. I love when songs are worked out to perfection. In case the jamming aspect still works nicely, you will also be able to deviate from given structures on stage, e. g. when spontaneously reacting to an excited audience by creating a sing-along refrain or the like. I know too well that there might be jealousy between lead vocalist and other members. Lead vocals are the most important solo part of every song - they are what makes a song a song. I want to add some personal things here to explain my situation a bit. I am bass player and vocalist of a band I joined exactly one year ago now being under reconstruction. Initially I was scheduled to be lead vocalist but played additionally bass from the start although it wasn't planned this way. They asked me if i wanted to play bass, too, and when I agreed they instantly dropped looking for a bass player then. Five months ago one of the two guitarists left, and then came a new one who is a great lead vocalist, too. We also have a keyboard player since that time. I enjoy playing bass especially in those songs where I am "only" the backing vocalist. All of us don't have that much time for rehearsals - we are lucky to meet once a month approximately -, and it's still not sure how long this cast may play together and what ambitions might result. However, bass playing is lots of fun since the drummer and me worked perfectly together from the first moment on. I haven't been playing bass in a band for more than sixteen years, play guitar and sing lead vocals in another band, and play drums and sing lead and backing vocals in a third one. I know that your time is rather limited, but running two bands in parallel with less rehearsals per band would possibly help in making a final decision. Jamming will help to evaluate how you will play together, and working out some songs should show up the limitations of particular possible members, in playing and singing abilities as well as in personal commitment and attitude. Hope this helps, and I cross my fingers for you!
awel Posted March 31, 2014 Author Posted March 31, 2014 Thing is that I am living on the country side and there are not a lot of musicians, so should I take the risk of being without a band for I don't knwow how many time? really sometimes even if I really feel alive on stage, not behind my screen at work, I ask myself if I 'd better not stop every band activities and just palying alone ... but I am sure I will miss playing live :( life is beautiful for sure but can be complicated sometimes
'Scales Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Assuming you can't easily replace the bass player,perhaps you could join the rock band for the fun of playing in a band, but then also get a backing track and play and sing with that as a solo act on the blues to get your blues 'fix' (plus 100% of the fee ) and be more able to do it when you have time available around the home life. ? Hope it works out for you Awel! :)
awel Posted March 31, 2014 Author Posted March 31, 2014 Well, I have been through that several times in the past and currently am stuck in the middle of a band reformation. Unclear situations within a band may lead to a war of nerves which finally will change nothing for better in most cases, at least not without changes in lineup. First, I think playing together blindly is an important aspect. When playing deafly in a double sense instead, there's no playing like a band should. Jamming around might help in finding out if players will find together or not. Second thing is working on arrangements. I love when songs are worked out to perfection. In case the jamming aspect still works nicely, you will also be able to deviate from given structures on stage, e. g. when spontaneously reacting to an excited audience by creating a sing-along refrain or the like. I know too well that there might be jealousy between lead vocalist and other members. Lead vocals are the most important solo part of every song - they are what makes a song a song. I want to add some personal things here to explain my situation a bit. I am bass player and vocalist of a band I joined exactly one year ago now being under reconstruction. Initially I was scheduled to be lead vocalist but played additionally bass from the start although it wasn't planned this way. They asked me if i wanted to play bass, too, and when I agreed they instantly dropped looking for a bass player then. Five months ago one of the two guitarists left, and then came a new one who is a great lead vocalist, too. We also have a keyboard player since that time. I enjoy playing bass especially in those songs where I am "only" the backing vocalist. All of us don't have that much time for rehearsals - we are lucky to meet once a month approximately -, and it's still not sure how long this cast may play together and what ambitions might result. However, bass playing is lots of fun since the drummer and me worked perfectly together from the first moment on. I haven't been playing bass in a band for more than sixteen years, play guitar and sing lead vocals in another band, and play drums and sing lead and backing vocals in a third one. I know that your time is rather limited, but running two bands in parallel with less rehearsals per band would possibly help in making a final decision. Jamming will help to evaluate how you will play together, and working out some songs should show up the limitations of particular possible members, in playing and singing abilities as well as in personal commitment and attitude. Hope this helps, and I cross my fingers for you! thank you. like you said time is limited and I am not running anymore for fame or money, I am just doing this for pleasure, and in the classic rock band I will have to learn all the classic rock solo (comfortably numb, are you gonna go my way, born to be wild...) and I am not sure I want to spend time on this, I like the rough context of blues rock, improvisation of lead parts, I don't want to play songs perfectly like they were, but to add my personality and mood in my leads so, to me apart from some you should play lead like originals because part of the song (comfortably num, hotel california, sweet home alabama ...) funny part is to my leads. Which I guess is not compatible with a classic rock band ... Something else is I like to sing (even if I am not freddie mercury :))
capmaster Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Thing is that I am living on the country side and there are not a lot of musicians, so should I take the risk of being without a band for I don't knwow how many time? really sometimes even if I really feel alive on stage, not behind my screen at work, I ask myself if I 'd better not stop every band activities and just palying alone ... but I am sure I will miss playing live :( life is beautiful for sure but can be complicated sometimes Same here - I live in the country side, too. One of my bands is rehearsing in the basement below my dwell, a second one in the music school of a town eight kilometers from here, and the band I play bass with is located 35 kilometers away in Munich. Since my nightlife is reduced to practically nothing, I don't have many chances to meet other musicians, too. :(
awel Posted March 31, 2014 Author Posted March 31, 2014 Assuming you can't easily replace the bass player,perhaps you could join the rock band for the fun of playing in a band, but then also get a backing track and play and sing with that as a solo act on the blues to get your blues 'fix' (plus 100% of the fee ) and be more able to do it when you have time available around the home life. ? Hope it works out for you Awel! :) I am thinking about that, I have a looper, and I am thinking really about going to play live with my electric guitar, my voice and a looper. Even if I can simulate bass but I will miss the drum part, and I am not so good with drum machine to do backing track myself
capmaster Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 thank you. like you said time is limited and I am not running anymore for fame or money, I am just doing this for pleasure, and in the classic rock band I will have to learn all the classic rock solo (comfortably numb, are you gonna go my way, born to be wild...) and I am not sure I want to spend time on this, I like the rough context of blues rock, improvisation of lead parts, I don't want to play songs perfectly like they were, but to add my personality and mood in my leads so, to me apart from some you should play lead like originals because part of the song (comfortably num, hotel california, sweet home alabama ...) funny part is to my leads. Which I guess is not compatible with a classic rock band ... Something else is I like to sing (even if I am not freddie mercury :)) Agree with that, too. The first point is having fun when performing well known songs in a recognizable way, except for the band where I play guitar and sing lead vocals which creates its own proprietary songs exclusively. We are a quartet of singers/songwriters so to say, accidentally playing two guitars, drums and bass...
Bender 4 Life Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 my 2 bands were absolute disasters after a few months, in both, I was "the elder" that wanted to practice 1st, party after......shorthand for that is, I basically got to babysit drunken kids and try to help them play their instruments, then after they passed out or were too pithed to try to play, i'd get wasted due to frustration..... and save them from aspirating or od'ing. not much call for live bands in my area anymore as now we have only "mega-bars" that are either techno-dance, rap/hip-hop, or todays pop. do what works for YOU awel......anything else will never be satisfying.
awel Posted March 31, 2014 Author Posted March 31, 2014 Agree with that, too. The first point is having fun when performing well known songs in a recognizable way, except for the band where I play guitar and sing lead vocals which creates its own proprietary songs exclusively. We are a quartet of singers/songwriters so to say, accidentally playing two guitars, drums and bass... lol multi instrumentist guys! :) Well, the same here, I have played bass in a band in 2008 just to help them and did a 18 days tour in Japan (very technical stuff like Protest the Hero music) so I pick a 6 strings bass required for their songs, and learn to play bass, not like a guitar player but as a real bass player :) So I sing, play guitar and can play bass guitar, I only miss keyboard and drums (even if I can play AC/DC type drum lick lol 4/4 classic rock) :)
awel Posted March 31, 2014 Author Posted March 31, 2014 my 2 bands were absolute disasters after a few months, in both, I was "the elder" that wanted to practice 1st, party after......shorthand for that is, I basically got to babysit drunken kids and try to help them play their instruments, then after they passed out or were too pithed to try to play, i'd get wasted due to frustration..... and save them from aspirating or od'ing. not much call for live bands in my area anymore as now we have only "mega-bars" that are either techno-dance, rap/hip-hop, or todays pop. do what works for YOU awel......anything else will never be satisfying. Even if should play alone for a long period?
capmaster Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Even if should play alone for a long period? Can't give advice in this respect I think. Never have been without a band since of October 1980 theoretically. There hasn't been a creative lineup from 1987 to 1994, and the oldie band I run since of 1986 had its breaks of more than two years each, actual fifteen months since the latest gig. However, it never ceased to exist up to now. So I never have been really "alone" but haven't been playing together with anybody for longer periods. For today it's just 17 days and will be zero tonight...
Jimi Mac Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 It's simply part of band life/dynamics. Everyone has their own style and way they want to do things and more often than not they conflict... Yes I lost the best guitar partner I've ever had yet in my career last year after only a few gigs. I've detailed that story in here before... Due to working hours and income he simply threw in the towel just when we were getting off the ground and starting to really do some good things. It is very disappointing and somewhat disheartening, especially at my, what I consider to be somewhat, advanced career age; @ 46... But in my mind it's all good! Any opportunity is wonderful and I'm so thankful for every piece of experience I can put under my belt and I enjoy every chance I get to play or play-out! Don't put all yer eggs in one basket, it will limit your sights. Allow your bigger picture to broaden and encompass more potential opportunities... There will be more opportunities so don't let the failure of one make you spite another one that comes along... Have faith, there will be more! And yes, I've had guys want to practice different parts and skip others that didn't make sense to me and made me upset about not practicing songs or parts I wanted-to...
awel Posted March 31, 2014 Author Posted March 31, 2014 A guy told me a while ago he simply said bands break up, thats just what they do. :)
saturn Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Hey awel. I'm not trying to be a contrarian, but a few things confuse me about your posts. On one hand, your band mate wants to practice 2 or 3 times a week, but doesn't want to spend time going through the full songs. It would seem to me, the only reason to spend so much time on practice is if you are going to meticulously go over each song, maybe multiple times. Also, you say you like the rough, jamming aspect of blues and don't feel like spending time learning solos noto-for-note. And yet you want to go over each full song during practice. Maybe it's me, but both you and your mate seem to have the opposite view of practice than what I would expect, considering your views. I can only give you a perspective from my experience. In all my bands, we all have day jobs, families, mortgage etc. Plus most of us are all coming from different directions to whoever's house we're practicing. So practice is two fold. We want to get actual work done and tighten up our songs, but we also want to escape the monotony of real life and have a little fun hanging with our buds. So to maximize our time it's always been expected that we would each take time at home on our own to work out as much as possible and just kinda do the Cliff Notes version of the songs at practice. You can prioritize what songs might be a little more tricky and actually concentrate on those at practice. For instance, we played a few Steely Dan songs. We definitely wanted to spend time on those since they are so tricky and complicated. On the other hand, how much time do we need to spend going over "Mustang Sally"? As the guitar player, 90% of my leads to the classic rock songs were improvised and played differently every time. Only a few songs required me to play it just like the record (ex Alright Now), and on those songs I tried to make sure we went over the solo section. Anyway, I probably didn't help and just confused you more. Good luck no matter what you decide to do.
kidblast Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 I think Saturn just about nails it for probably 75 to 80% of us who haunt this forum and are actively in bands. At the end of the day, I do believe there are a few "constants" to deal with in any band. 1: nothing lasts for ever, most bands break up long before the return on the investment of time (and hopefully NOT gear) is ever reached 2: it's really important to work with people that you are just on the same page with. you take players with dissimilar objectives, and put them together and "hope" they are successful,, then see #1 3: there will always be another band! I have been at this since the mid 70s (in regards to working in bands that have been doing "pay" gigs) the ones that have lasted the longest are the ones where the conflicts have come from out side of the band. The bands that had conflicts from with in, those never last. Recently reunited with some guys I've played with for many years (one of those long running bands where everyone is always on the same page). We had a keyboard player join us, we did one gig with the guy, after that he didn't last,.. wasn't on the same page, and created a lot of conflict. (Didn't like the material we were doing, couldn't control his volume and just always had something to complain about,, -- brought in lots of negativity). so, we had to show him the door. he was a nice guy, and we didn't wish him ill, but he didn't fit. (now realize in this situation, a few of us had been playing together off and on for over 35 years... -- right.. I'm showing my age.) in a way your buddy is right, if you HAVE to practice every little detail of a song like Mustang Sally (just for an example)... well,, maybe there's something else going on there. But that aside, I would say, take this in stride, what will be, will be,... move on.. go try out that classic rock band. There's a lot of common ground between blues and classic rock and there's no real reason why over time, you aren't able to put a few select Blues based tunes that you want to do into the mix. Besides, you never know right? you could just gel perfectly with these guys,,, you wont know till you try... nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Jimi Mac Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 go try out that classic rock band. There's a lot of common ground between blues and classic rock and there's no real reason why over time, you aren't able to put a few select Blues based tunes that you want to do into the mix. Besides, you never know right? you could just gel perfectly with these guys,,, you wont know till you try... nothing ventured, nothing gained. There's alot to that! I'm a Blues-Hound! I literally only know 12-bar progressions thru and thru and I only know the minor pentatonic Blues scales, but I play with other musicians in multiple projects that play anything from Country, to Pop, to Alternative, and even Hip-Hop covers. They do it with a Folksy take and with complete originality and somehow we pull it off... We have alot of fun doing it and my drummer Paul and I will look at each other trying to figure out the song we're playing and it dawns on us we're doing Folk/Alternative like covers of Michael Jackson, Brittany Spears, and even Vanilla Ice... We laugh our @$es off that we didn't even know what it was before hand or until most of the way thru the song or even until he announces it either right before or right after the song... We play mostly on improv and I ask the key or the chords in the song and we simply go-for-it... They give me the nod for solos & fills and I'm a Bluesman, so that's what I put to it... For whatever reason it works and we have a blast doing it! It's not as fun as my comfort zone within a 12-bar for sure, and I'd still rather be playing Johnny B. Goode. Too Much Alcohol, I Wonder Who, Crossroads,Fool For Your Stockings, They Call Me The Breeze, or any of my originals, but it's still fun and we have a good time. And hell we get paid for it after the gig... Definitely worth the time!!!+ They let me toss in one or two of my originals, and we kill Johnny Cash's Fulsom Prison Blues! I even pulled out my slide axe one night tuned to Open-E (for Elmore James type blues numbers) and we killed Fulsom Prison Blues like that, even though it's really a Country 12-bar... I play the Country version pretty tight to the original mostly and I actually like that one that way and it always goes over big with the crowd! You can still get alot of what you want out of a band/project even if it's not a dream one!
Rosemarie Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 So, this is it after 1 year and a half, my blues rock trio splits. We have still one show to do on the 12th of April, but still under discussion if we'll do or not. I am very disapointed, I was the guitar/vocal and the bass player is normally a guitar player so I think it comes from there, every practice we had he was telling us: "if only I could sing, it would have been different and my band would have had more shows than we" These last months we had a lot of discussion because his point of view about practicing is that you only have to work the beginning and the end of a song, his words are 'come on, it is just blues, except the intro the rest is just blues rythm, no need to work out' I totally disagree on that, to me it is better to have a set list of 10 tracks you perfectly got than 25 that you 'almost' have. But to him, this should be part of homework not band practice! that guy wants to rehearse 2 or 3 times a week but I have a 6 months old baby, so I don't have the same availability at 39 than when I was 20! So now, I don't know what to do, I have been asked to join a classic rock band but, what I really enjoy is blues rock, so should I join the classic rock band or should I go and start a new blues rock trio and do what I really like? I am confused ... Does anyone already faced that kind of situation? I have not been in this situation, but I am sorry about what happened. IMHO, if this is not your "regular" job, do what makes you happy and start a new blues trio. If this is your bread and butter, join the Classic Rock band until an opportunity to play what you really like presents itself. I understand your frustration with your former band mate, I would feel that way, too. What is the point of half @$$ing a bunch of songs 3-4 days a week when you can put a couple of hours in 2 days a week working on songs that you put your all into. I have never understood people who are willing to half @$$ things and think its OK. Maybe it is just how I was raised or I am just getting crabby in my old age! :D I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide to do! :)
awel Posted April 1, 2014 Author Posted April 1, 2014 pfff it's difficult I really ask myself if I should stop the blues rock trio or not. I mean stopping was my decision and anyway we have to do the show on 12 of April, so shouldn't I take on my shoulder all my frustrations and keep on going, I don't know Thanks for your thought and all your previous answers :)
capmaster Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 Probably it's best to think of your scheduled gig as a chance for making up your mind finally. Leaving all the hassle behind and just performing will perhaps do the trick. Anyway, I wish you that it will turn out to be fun for you, regardless of what will be thereafter.
charlie brown Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 OK..the band's over. No big deal, bands come and go. Keep playing... in any band you can find, where the guys/girls you're playing with are of (nearly) equal mind. A lot of what I'm hearing, here (and, I'm Not trying to be a Jerk, at all), is reluctance, or fear(???) of going outside your "Comfort Zone," that being blues, or blues- rock. But, playing "Classic Rock," isn't that much different, as most of those could be considered "blues (based) rock," quite often. ANY experience, and songs, rifs, lead solos, etc. that you learn will just add to your "vocabulary," and will make you a better overall guitar player...IMHO. Plus, you don't have to give up, "Blues," or "Blues Rock," at all. Just incorporated it, into whatever genre you're playing, at the time. Anything, to move on, and improve!! Also, play with those you not only get along with, well...but, those of (at least) equal talent, or more. Seek out, better players, constantly. Try to Ignore being intimitaded as much as you can, as you will (no doubt) learn a lot, from those better to much better players. I've found, that really great players, who are nice people as well, and are not "insecure," will be more than happy to help you, as time, and circumstances allow. Good Luck, to you! But, keep on playing/learning, whenever and with whoever you can! CB
awel Posted April 1, 2014 Author Posted April 1, 2014 I think I will definitively stop playing guitar, tonight the bass player which is usually a guitar player, told me that everything I've ever made was 'out', that I am a bad quitar player but he didn't tell me anything since 1 year because didn't want to hurt me, and by the way told me that he is the only honest person that I know, that other people lie (my friends, people I don't know when we played live and you ... because I have posted things from my band on this forum and no one told me I was playing out so everyone lies :) I am so upset, I started music to have pleasure not that, now believe me or not but I don't trust myself anymore so I am serious when I am thinking to stop all that s...! :(
charlie brown Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 Sorry, to hear that Awel! But, one person's opinion, is just that! However, IF you quit, you'll definitely NOT get any better! Maybe just pull back, a bit, take some time out, to learn some more "stuff," and come back stronger than ever? You have so many more opportunities, and ways to learn now (Internet, tabs, on-line lessons, etc.), than I did...(wearing out records, back in the '60's), that it would be a shame to give up, too soon, without exploring your real potential, whatever that may be. I understand your frustration(s), and being "upset." But, give it some time. Time too cool down, time to re-evaluate, and maybe even take some lessons, or use the Interet learning tools, and go for it. "Guitar" is a LIFE LONG learning experience, even for the best among us. You'll never stop learning new things on guitar, especially...unless, of course you actually do decide not to. Hang in there! CB
awel Posted April 1, 2014 Author Posted April 1, 2014 Sorry, to hear that Awel! But, one person's opinion, is just that! However, IF you quit, you'll definitely NOT get any better! Maybe just pull back, a bit, take some time out, to learn some more "stuff," and come back stronger than ever? You have so many more opportunities, and ways to learn now (Internet, tabs, on-line lessons, etc.), than I did...(wearing out records, back in the '60's), that it would be a shame to give up, too soon, without exploring your real potential, whatever that may be. I understand your frustration(s), and being "upset." But, give it some time. Time too cool down, time to re-evaluate, and maybe even take some lessons, or use the Interet learning tools, and go for it. "Guitar" is a LIFE LONG learning experience, even for the best among us. You'll never stop learning new things on guitar, especially...unless, of course you actually do decide not to. Hang in there! CB Thanks, feel so down and out tonight :(
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