Rabs Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I just recently found a really cool supplier of wood locally.. The guy makes quite large pieces of furniture and structures so has quite a bit he considers off cuts but is perfect for what I want... He sold me a whole boot load of wood today.. check this... How much do you think I got that for? :) £10 As well as some really nice oak you can see in there (and some beautiful maple I got last time) he has a whole load of wood called Meranti also known as Lauan.. Now even though its not really mahogany, its close enough for me :) Once its cleaned up it looks like this (this is from the last lot I got) and once finished something like this But my question is, for those who know about wood types, do you reckon it would be hard enough for a neck? It is a hardwood so im assuming it will, but wouldn't mind some advice if anyone knows? Also while I am at it.. I have a new shape and I LOOOVVEE it :) REALLY happy with that... the neck im using for this is pre-Rabswood headstock shape but it has that nice Ebony board on it so I didn't want to waste it.. But I reckon for now I will stick to this and the other shape I used for build 1.. What do you think Also I have no2 almost done.. I got a bit weird with it.. Its that oak one and I ended up sanding the top down too far which meant the pickups would have been too low (they are body mounted ones).. so I for whatever strange reason decided to stick a bit of mahogany on there.. and then that looked odd by itself so I added some on the headstock and where the controls are... You may have to bare with me on this one.. I think once all the hardware is on that's gonna look really cool. But I may be wrong, we will see :D Also in doing this one I have come up with a name for this model shape... It will be called the RabsWood Arrow (copyright of RabsWood guitars :)) Still finding a good name for that LPish shaped one.. I kinda like the tool theme (an arrow is sort of a tool :)) so am thinking The Axe (sorta corny I know) or The Hammer (not to be confused with an axe or Hamer :P :)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karloff Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 thats what she said ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pin Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I wish I had the expertise to advise you Rabs but I haven't. I have heard of Lauan before and it sure enough looks like a type of mahogany although whether it is actually a related wood I know not. But I am sure someone on this fine site will be along soon enough who does know his wood from the trees! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 I wish I had the expertise to advise you Rabs but I haven't. I have heard of Lauan before and it sure enough looks like a type of mahogany although whether it is actually a related wood I know not. But I am sure someone on this fine site will be along soon enough who does know his wood from the trees! Cheers :) Yeah I have looked it up, but what I read doesn't really tell me enough... I just thought it would be cool to get some advice from people who know (and I know there are a few lurking around :)) Like these figures mean nothing to me Janka Hardness: 800 lbf (3,570 N) Modulus of Rupture: 12,710 lbf/in2 (87.7 MPa) Elastic Modulus: 1,743,000 lbf/in2 (12.02 GPa) Crushing Strength: 7,070 lbf/in2 (48.8 MPa) This is what it says: Comments: Sometimes referred to as Lauan, wood in the Shorea genus is very commonly used in southeast Asia, and there is an abundance of variety between the difference species: each with different working properties, appearances, and mechanical strength values. The five main groupings for Meranti (Lauan) are: Light Red Meranti, Dark Red Meranti, White Meranti, Yellow Meranti, and Balau. The strength and mechanical values listed at the top of this page represent the average of a handful of species within the corresponding group. Also called Philippine Mahogany, Meranti bears no relation to what is considered to be “true” mahogany in the Swietenia and Khaya genera. Ive looked up real mahogany and its Janka hardness is about 1160, so its 300 more.. what does that mean in real terms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 In the late 90's and early 2000s some of the...uhm, cheaper makers of guitars were using Meranti for the sides and backs of acoustics. They didn't do it long. I'm not sure what that means, but there it is. I believe I remember Taylor doing it too, when I briefly used an Ovangkol bodied Taylor I seem to recall them having Meranti, but I may have that wrong. Here in Americur, we mostly use Luan(Meranti mahogany) as an underlay before putting down a floor. Softer and smoother than the usual ply that is the subfloor, evens out the noise better too. I'm not sure what that means either, but there it is too! rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 In the late 90's and early 2000s some of the...uhm, cheaper makers of guitars were using Meranti for the sides and backs of acoustics. They didn't do it long. I'm not sure what that means, but there it is. I believe I remember Taylor doing it too, when I briefly used an Ovangkol bodied Taylor I seem to recall them having Meranti, but I may have that wrong. Here in Americur, we mostly use Luan(Meranti mahogany) as an underlay before putting down a floor. Softer and smoother than the usual ply that is the subfloor, evens out the noise better too. I'm not sure what that means either, but there it is too! rct Cheers for that info... Well I am still experimenting.. I think once I have my processes down I will start finding more traditional woods.. but then lets see what happens when I make one out of this stuff, who knows :) (at least I wont loose much in terms of money :)) People don't use pine much, but the people who do, like it and I think Fender even still does some teles in pine and that's the cheapest wood there is .. so I guess like everything its down to taste? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Cheers for that info... Well I am still experimenting.. I think once I have my processes down I will start finding more traditional woods.. but then lets see what happens when I make one out of this stuff, who knows :) (at least I wont loose much in terms of money :)) People don't use pine much, but the people who do, like it and I think Fender even still does some teles in pine and that's the cheapest wood there is .. so I guess like everything its down to taste? I think so. And tradition. If Leo and George hadn't had so much trouble with sap and just canned the idea of pine we might all be using pine strats and teles right now. I didn't like the Ovankgol Taylor I had because it had a decidedly uninspired sound, not because of the nearly platic-y wood it was made of. I gig and record an expensive Ovation, I don't put down a song without that thing on it, so I can't be that much a traditionalist. I think if you end up getting your methods aligned and right and have to use more traditional woods it will be more a reflection of your buyers than anything else. The best of luck with it. It takes more guts to build guitars then to stand out there in front of 5 thousand and play one. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 I think so. And tradition. If Leo and George hadn't had so much trouble with sap and just canned the idea of pine we might all be using pine strats and teles right now. I didn't like the Ovankgol Taylor I had because it had a decidedly uninspired sound, not because of the nearly platic-y wood it was made of. I gig and record an expensive Ovation, I don't put down a song without that thing on it, so I can't be that much a traditionalist. I think if you end up getting your methods aligned and right and have to use more traditional woods it will be more a reflection of your buyers than anything else. The best of luck with it. It takes more guts to build guitars then to stand out there in front of 5 thousand and play one. rct Lol... thanks but im not sure about that.. Ive done some gigs so I know how that feels... The only time I have been nervous is when I worked on that Les Paul Junior.. Its one thing messing about with cheap wood and glue, its another drilling holes into someone elses Gibson.. But much like a gig, after the first chord is played you feel ok and just get into it, much the same happened on that build :) Id be REALLY silly doing all of this on really expensive materials (and cant afford that right now anyway).. so to me its all good.. Solid wood is solid wood... the only real consideration as this thread is about is neck wood as that really has to be the right material or it will bow and snap... But for me its going to be a lot of Oak and Maple at the moment (as that's what I have), so I know at least they are great hard woods to use (even though you don't see many Oak guitars for some reason?, but its one of the hardest woods). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan H Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Janka Hardness is the number of foot pounds of force it takes to force a 0.444 inch diameter steel ball half of it's diameter into the wood. This link should be very informative regarding the Janka Hardness of many types of timber. http://www.becklerscarpet.com/hardwood/janka-hardwood-hardness-scale/ Lauan/Membatu/Phillipine Mahogany has a Janka Hardness of 1633 lbft. That's about 12% harder than Hard Rock Maple. Perfectly fine for a neck. -Ryan EDIT: It appears that Lauan is such a broad term for woods in Asia that it would be very difficult to determine how hard it is unless you can determine the exact species based on grain. There also seems to be some variance over the internet regarding the Janka Hardness of various woods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 Janka Hardness is the number of foot pounds of force it takes to force a 0.444 inch diameter steel ball half of it's diameter into the wood. This link should be very informative regarding the Janka Hardness of many types of timber. http://www.becklerscarpet.com/hardwood/janka-hardwood-hardness-scale/ Lauan/Membatu/Phillipine Mahogany has a Janka Hardness of 1633 lbft. That's about 12% harder than Hard Rock Maple. Perfectly fine for a neck. -Ryan Well thanks for that.. by that chart it certainly seems ok BUT this is the problem with the internet I found this one http://ejmas.com/tin/2009tin/tinart_goldstein_0904.html where they list it as Dark Red meranti and even where it says Lauan its even LESS :unsure: This is why I ask on here.. the internet is amazing, but for this sort of thing not very reliable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan H Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Well thanks for that.. by that chart it certainly seems ok BUT this is the problem with the internet I found this one http://ejmas.com/tin/2009tin/tinart_goldstein_0904.html where they list it as Dark Red meranti and even where it says Lauan its even LESS :unsure: This is why I ask on here.. the internet is amazing, but for this sort of thing not very reliable See edited post :P -Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 See edited post :P -Ryan Hmm, I guess this is actually the issue is that my experience with wood is not great... What I have learned is that a lot of wood that is actually very different looks alike (even to the pros sometimes) lol :) I guess im gonna have to find a ways to test it myslef and just keep learning till I know all the differences (sheeesh, is it really worth it :P) .. Or just build one and make sure I can take the neck joint out easily if it all goes pare shaped lol :) Otherwise called, doing it the hard way (is there any other way ;)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan H Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I've spent awhile looking at high-res images of the different types of Meranti and comparing them to yours. It looks to be either Light Red Meranti or Balau, both of which have a Janka Hardness higher than Honduran Mahogany, which obviously has been use extensively as a neck wood. The pores, color and grain patterns fit those two species much closer than the others. -Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 I've spent awhile looking at high-res images of the different types of Meranti and comparing them to yours. It looks to be either Light Red Meranti or Balau, both of which have a Janka Hardness higher than Honduran Mahogany, which obviously has been use extensively as a neck wood. The pores, color and grain patterns fit those two species much closer than the others. -Ryan Thanks man, that input is very much appreciated... I will do the same and see if I can work it out.... Cheers... Oh and if you ever have any questions about your build always feel free to ask (not that you cant find all that info on Youtube with video that actually shows you what to do :)).. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan H Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Oh and if you ever have any questions about your build always feel free to ask (not that you cant find all that info on Youtube with video that actually shows you what to do :)).. Definitely will do if I hit any snags. Your help is very much appreciated :) -Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tc rocker Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 A friend of mine is a luthier. He builds electric and acoustic guitars. He buys wood from "Luthiers Mercantile". You can find them online. They carry all kinds of wood, and they describe the tones of the woods your looking at. My friend also says to find woods that are air dried and dried at less that 10 percent. With no use of any chemicals to show up the wood grains in pictures. I'm looking to have a acoustic with Myrtlewood back and sides. Another good place for wood is "Cook Woods". And "Superior tonewoods" is a good one. Ive been reseaching alot for woods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted April 8, 2014 Author Share Posted April 8, 2014 A friend of mine is a luthier. He builds electric and acoustic guitars. He buys wood from "Luthiers Mercantile". You can find them online. They carry all kinds of wood, and they describe the tones of the woods your looking at. My friend also says to find woods that are air dried and dried at less that 10 percent. With no use of any chemicals to show up the wood grains in pictures. I'm looking to have a acoustic with Myrtlewood back and sides. Another good place for wood is "Cook Woods". And "Superior tonewoods" is a good one. Ive been reseaching alot for woods. So do you know much about Meranti then? Thanks for the info... To be honest I can get more traditional bits of wood easy enough if I want, about £40-£50 for a decent bit of mahogany... That's not so much the issue here.. Its more than while I am still at this stage of my building I want to experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 The modulus of rupture and the crushing strength are measures of the tensile and compressive breaking strengths of the wood. Like how hard you can bend it before it breaks. That's it's strength. You need a certain amount of strength. The modulus of elasticity is a measure of how stiff the wood is. Like how much pressure it takes to bend it a certain distance. You need stiffness in the neck wood. For a neck, if it's stiff enough, it's probably strong enough. The hardness is just how hard it resists denting from an impact. So you can compare the strength and elasticity to other known woods to determine if they're in the range of other known "Good" woods. The elasticity is the main thing, but you ought to make sure the wood is as strong as other known good woods too. [thumbup] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 The modulus of rupture and the crushing strength are measures of the tensile and compressive breaking strengths of the wood. Like how hard you can bend it before it breaks. That's it's strength. You need a certain amount of strength. The modulus of elasticity is a measure of how stiff the wood is. Like how much pressure it takes to bend it a certain distance. You need stiffness in the neck wood. For a neck, if it's stiff enough, it's probably strong enough. The hardness is just how hard it resists denting from an impact. So you can compare the strength and elasticity to other known woods to determine if they're in the range of other known "Good" woods. The elasticity is the main thing, but you ought to make sure the wood is as strong as other known good woods too. [thumbup] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 The modulus of rupture and the crushing strength are measures of the tensile and compressive breaking strengths of the wood. Like how hard you can bend it before it breaks. That's it's strength. You need a certain amount of strength. The modulus of elasticity is a measure of how stiff the wood is. Like how much pressure it takes to bend it a certain distance. You need stiffness in the neck wood. For a neck, if it's stiff enough, it's probably strong enough. The hardness is just how hard it resists denting from an impact. So you can compare the strength and elasticity to other known woods to determine if they're in the range of other known "Good" woods. The elasticity is the main thing, but you ought to make sure the wood is as strong as other known good woods too. [thumbup] Thanks for that info man, mast helpful .... I will continue to read up on it all and learn... As said before though on this thread, the issue is not looking it up on the net, that's easy.. The issue is you can look on ten different sites and get ten different answers.. So finding a reliable source of information is key... Maybe I can find some kind of national wood association or something :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Thanks for that info man, mast helpful .... I will continue to read up on it all and learn... As said before though on this thread, the issue is not looking it up on the net, that's easy.. The issue is you can look on ten different sites and get ten different answers.. So finding a reliable source of information is key... Maybe I can find some kind of national wood association or something :) The arbiter of all of the great Wood Debates of the mid 90's on usenet was a Dr. name of Hoadley. His book remains one of theee sources for wood information, John Suhr had it and sometimes that Tom Anderson character would stop in and add his five cents, all gleaned from Hoadleys book. Beware: an awful lot of what guitar players think they know about wood is pure fiction. Just be ready for that. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 The arbiter of all of the great Wood Debates of the mid 90's on usenet was a Dr. name of Hoadley. His book remains one of theee sources for wood information, John Suhr had it and sometimes that Tom Anderson character would stop in and add his five cents, all gleaned from Hoadleys book. Beware: an awful lot of what guitar players think they know about wood is pure fiction. Just be ready for that. rct Cheers man I will look into that for sure... And yes I am already quite aware of that... but then im a member of this forum so im kind of used to it now ;) Its mainly what ive said (me thinks).. For the body, you can use pretty much any solid wood and it will work fine, and for the neck the only real concern is the strength as it has to take the string tension.. After that its just a matter of taste (or being told magical wood myths that improve tone ) What I will say is that tone does vary slightly so making your guitar sound good after your wood choice is a matter of then choosing the right sort of pickups to compliment the properties of the wood you are using.. which is just common sense really :) That's why Gibsons roar.. the combination of a darker sounding wood with their pickups. They just compliment each other really well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 The arbiter of all of the great Wood Debates of the mid 90's on usenet was a Dr. name of Hoadley. His book remains one of theee sources for wood information, John Suhr had it and sometimes that Tom Anderson character would stop in and add his five cents, all gleaned from Hoadleys book. Beware: an awful lot of what guitar players think they know about wood is pure fiction. Just be ready for that. rct This? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan H Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 "That's definitely wood. Next!" -Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 This? Sweet! rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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