Rabs Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 ALIENS!!! Its all because of aliens.. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 re: Person(s) of Interest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I have some pretty strong political feelings myself. And I also find it interesting that the current concerns that "uncle whiskers is watching whether you live in the US or not, and so are the corporate money masters" cross political lines. But seriously, I think overall it's a creature we have all had a hand in the making. To have what we think we want, we inevitably must give up something. In photography I used to say that you can have shutter speed or you can have aperture, but not both. Most of "us' have automatic cameras that do the thinking for us, and we therefore forget that there's a cost to every benefit, whether in photography or technological advances. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Mac Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 If you feel duped into accepting Ts and Cs when offered an opportunity to read them but were too lazy to do so then I'm afraid we have no future as a species. The idea that everything is someone else's responsibility has truly set in. Guess what, the someone else who you are making responsible is your government. How do they do that? The same way a parent does with a child, they keep an eye. People have the cart before the horse in their thinking here. MAKE YOUR SELF RESPONISIBLE OR PAY THE PRICE. Read the F'ing Ts and Cs and if you don't agree then DON'T AGREE. But guess what, everyone does because they want the smart phone, they want others to know and they enjoy the benefits so much they say "to hell with the Ts and Cs, I wanna get set up". Who do we blame for that? Well, you seem to blame the writer of Ts and Cs. Wake up people, you're permitting this and then complaining when it happens. I'm not saying you have to accept it, I'm saying you have a choice but follow the other lemmings of the cliff any way. Don't be surprised when the bottom of the cliff is rushing up towards you, fast. No I don't have a choice if I want the application/device/equipment to work/run or even turn on. If I exercise my right and say I don't agree, it doesn't download/upload/start... That is a monopoly, that is against the law, and that makes my "acceptance" issue under duress by the definition of the law and that is not only against simple normal ethics and morals, but frankly illegal. They figure if they got you by the short hairs and you've already paid for said software/device/application you'll agree just to save the money you just spent... It is bait and switch and is against fair trade laws pure and simple. But they do have you! They don't advertise that you are REQUIRED to agree to such an intrusion up front before they take your money, only after they've gotten you over a barrel then it's time to spring the use agreement on you and render it useless if you don't agree! Dude don't gimme any crap about my simple discourse being of the entitlement mentality, my home and lineage was part of the rebellion against yer former king, I'm blood kin to Mountain Man Jim Bridger and know damn well the cost of freedom measured in self-accountability and personal responsibility more than most people you'll ever meet! Us of Scotch ancestry know a thing or two about tellin' the "authorities" to shuv their regulations and terms up their yin-yang... And to path find and pioneer a new world when the time comes... But to sit there and tell me that it's our own fault when these agreements are the very last step after you've paid for something before it turns on isn't fully well understood by those that employ said agreement's use as their hidden disclaimer is painfully intellectually dishonest! if it were so out in the open and on the up-and-up it would be marketed and advertised openly as requiring an agreement for all of your personal information and tracking to be shared with not only the government but financial tracking for "market research" and selling you and your information to the highest bidder time and time again. Instead it is a bundled and hidden formality and poo-poohed as meaningless so that everyone will conform and sign on the dotted-line... Show me one commecial advertisement that openly admits to immediately giving your personal info to the government and such authorities to do with as they see fit... Such as The IRS persecuting Tea Party political party members and grass-roots organizations, or those other than politically correct individuals such as Glenn Beck or Howie Carr being the target of multiple and constant tax audits and similar harassment from the likes of the Obama administration with tax cheats like Timothy Geitner running the Treasury dept and the ilk of the many congressmen that simply ignoring paying their taxes etc etc etc. Yet they can have all of our private tax info to do with what they want... It don't make it right!!! I know full well that if I decide to use or have one of these things, I've signed my soul to the devil and people I want having no part of my private and personal information were just granted access to it... That don't make it right just because they put it in the fine print and force you to agree once you've paid just to turn the damn thing on! If I pay fair market value for an item, there should be no strings attached and nobody has a right to force you to agree to something you don't want or like just because that's the only way you can turn it on and use it... It is patently extortion and people are sentenced to penalty for just that sort of thing on a daily basis and this gets a pass when definitively the same! I call that corporate welfare and a double standard for the politically correct allowing one to get away with something that would get a small business sanctioned for the same exact practice if employed in product advertising for profit... So enumerated bait & switch truth in advertising laws should simply be done away with because it's our own fault for accepting something and not seeing the truth in it for ourselves before taking it home... It's called fair/reasonable expectation and good faith. Our Forefathers, founders, and framers of our constitution understood the simple basic requirement of a moral society in order for this nation to succeed and those "requirements" aren't moral and they're just not right no matter what the snivelers snort over clicking "accept." What I accept has nothing to do with the fine print, I accept the right to turn something on that they accepted my money for in fair trade! Nothing more regardless of the terms I reject but portend acceptance of under duress... If I deem that "acceptance" to be made under duress it immediately disqualifies the terms it enumerates and I deem that they accept my terms since they accepted my money! Perception is reality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Why is everyone on the internet but me an international trade law expert? It's because I'm Irish isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Why is everyone on the internet but me an international trade law expert? It's because I'm Irish isn't it? Have you kissed the blarney stone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quapman Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 So they can track me. I really don't care. I can deal with and know how to avoid the marketing aspect of it. As far as the Big Brother thing goes??? I don't care. Big Brother has better things to do than sit there and watch me live my petty life. I do think there is legitimate concern with technology and the whole spy aspect of it. If it wasn't,, the US government wouldn't be so interested in what Huawei is doing in your internet/router market, or even more bizarre,, what Huawei are doing in my country's internet/router market. My employer made national news over a contract with Huawei and the concerns the US government has with the spy technology that may or may not be embedded in their product. So is there a capability of them spying using available technology? Of course there is. Should I be concerned? Well maybe if I'm doing something I shouldn't be. But I'm not so I don't care if they wanna watch me go ahead. I'm not that interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quapman Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 If I pay fair market value for an item, there should be no strings attached and nobody has a right to force you to agree to something you don't want or like just because that's the only way you can turn it on and use it... Well that may be true for a vacuum or a toaster. But when you buy a phone.. or worse a smart phone,, you are only buying an interface. It's not just a phone anymore. It's an interface to the world wide web and all the risks that go with that. It's an interface where the rules change based on your location. Ever hear of roaming charges? They have no control over where you go or how other carriers bill for service. It's an interface to social networking. People seem to love that for some strange reason. Either you are willing to bend over and expose yourself for the pleasure and privilege of owning such a device,, or you can choose the age old interface of the copper wire land line and feel secure knowing that the only risks you have are the good ole telemarketers calling you during supper. There are no constitutional rights on the world wide web. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Actually the software increasingly isn't anything one might define as a "purchase," but rather a "lease." That's the future as seen by both MS and Apple, as far as I can tell. Other software folks, such as Adobe, also are into the "if you want the better software, you've gotta lease it from "the cloud," and then all your stuff is in our semi-proprietary format and you've gotta keep paying us for the software and "cloud storage" for the stuff you think is your writings and photos and whatever - cuz we control access. It's like owning a watch that sits in a building somewhere and you lease the rights to telephone in to see what time it is. Or worse, imagine a great portrait artist painting or photographing someone, then selling the rights to display only an electronic copy with a 1-year lease that may be renewed at the lease-owner's choice of prices and additional rights such as distribution to relatives. I have some photos that have won an award or two. But if the only copy is "on the cloud," who owns it? The copyright holder, me? Or the cloud owner that carries no liability - look at the lease terms - and may restrict the "owner" of the copyright from his own property. Interesing ain't it? Then the issue of "us" being tracked by governments and/or big corporations?Actually they can do various sorts of analysis that could likely tell them, if they wanted to know, almost such stuff as how many times a day you blink your eyes. You can say, "oh, the government doesn't care about me." That's not correct. One rationale behind various laws in most "European" nations, including us Anglophones, is that if we do X or Y behavior, it'll cost more in health care costs or lost working days. Even assuming somebody ain't cooking the books to approve statistically unhealthy habits to allow them at no increased cost to the individual, how much control over our diet through taxation are we willing to give up, or to do what uncle tells us? With our medical records increasingly on "the cloud" to better save our lives, we think, what of our genetic propensity to this or that disease? What of a gene tax for those with propensity toward lifelong diseases such as heart, liver, kidney disease or certain cancers or diabetes or... if we tax "health cost risk" behaviors, why not "health cost risk genes?" You might suggest that's silly, but listen to anti-tobacco arguments that morphed into anti-sugar arguments, etc. My favorite "cold pill" was first changed, then pulled from the market. First they subbed "tylenol" for the original aspirin, then pulled the product from the market because it might be injurious to pregnant women. For this the over-the-counter product is modified and then pulled because of problems some people might have, and yet other "over-the-counter stuff like a pound of salt kill you? Bottom line is that unless "we" determine we don't like the idea, we're definitely headed toward a hive culture not entirely unlike the live of the Borg on the Star Trek series(es). The philosophical question will be whether we will be able to have the kind of individual control over our lives that "we" have argued for on both the left and right of politics - or do we recognize and allow technology and rising populations take increasing control of our lives that there's little potential for much of any personal choice. Wait until genetics studies show your genetics in hot and humid climates leads to statistically lesser lifespan. Oops, you can't live here. Your cell phone shows you're vacationing there? Oops, it affects your credit chits because you're costing society more by that act than otherwise. Think this is sci fi? Then you ain't listening to the world around you. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Mac Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I guess I'm not coming across and I'm not getting folks here to see my points... My long-windedness has me miscommunicate often... I'm not stupid, I understand all the same ol' ad-nauseum excuses and justifications on all this... Leases are broken, renegotiated, and amended all the time... Just because brand X or conglomerate name Y says; "that's how it is an' yer gonna take it an' like it" doesn't mean we have to accept and promote it as such... These are legalese jargon disclaimers, they are not God's law or even rules of our enlightened existential society, they are nothing more than a mission statement CLAIM by a business entity seeking profit... They hold no sway other than what we subscribe to them. Before I said perception is reality, if I don't agree to all the terms of a 1-sided negotiation, I don't have to! These laws and stipulations are written into the legislation that govern these types of contracts and agreements everywhere. If only one side's terms are enumerated then it's not a fair and equitable contract... Yes I know, life ain't fair, but in contract law both parties are allowed to enumerate their terms and negotiate toward agreement from there. When only one part dictates terms, that's a monopoly, that's a tyranny, and that's a fascist state. We have protections already written into our laws unlike countries and societies where it was not set up for and by a free people that are guaranteed liberty, freedom, and justice for all... It simply doesn't have to be as it is dictated to us in user agreements, there are ways to have our fair negotiated say regardless of clicking on "I agree." Otherwise prenups and contracts would never be contested in court legally! Those have actual signatures attached and get terms set aside by legal rulings on a regular basis! No one can make us forfeit our individual rights and liberties under the guise of a legal agreement, it simply cannot happen as they are endowed to us by our creator and we are not able to simply sign them away, they are always there for us to exercise, period. If folks outside of our shores don't subscribe to the simple basic premise of American exceptionalism by personal/individual freedom, liberty, and justice for all, that's their problem... It's inalienable for the American citizenry. Will it stop those entities from taking and trading everyone's personal/private information? Not until enough folks fight back with amended terms to one-sided agreements... But it's something, however small or seemingly moot, we can do, even if a touch vague and undetermined... About the only thing that gets the contract broken on the end of the corporate market entities is lack of payment, you don't pay the "agreed" amount and they shut it off... Other than that, they really couldn't care less and you're free to seek alternative terms all you like and get them to accept your modified terms by continuing your service by accepting your next payment after stating the terms you agree to in a letter if you can show it got to their customer service team... It can be that simple... True, it doesn't mean a rogue judge or an "OJ jury" won't make righteousness null and void in a legal proceeding, but it's a potential for vindication/validation that does exist. As for stopping government entities and agents of profit from obtaining, tracking, and monitoring us and our information... That's not likely to change if Americans and/or anyone on earth keeps voting for their own self-servitude and self-destructive feelgoodism, we'll never get that genie back in the bottle... It ain't all about us, there's a much bigger picture out there and long after we're dust in the wind, (after all this is a music/instrument forum and I thought a Kansas reference was germane) there will be people that have to deal with the consequences of our actions from our lives and the legacy we leave behind! I suggest we quit acting only in our own selfish interests to get what we want for ourselves only for instant gratification and short-term profit... We must also disallow political figures and entities to divide and conquer us by initiating ersatz controversy so we're always at each other's throats... If my response earlier seemed to call-out Farns, that wasn't my intention. No offense intended whatsoever! My apology if it was taken as an insult. It was meant as a big picture debate of an ideology... I'm a fiery hothead of Scotch descent and don't mind a good row on a heated discourse... No offense intended toward any individual, simply havin' a spirited go at a hot topic! If you all haven't noticed, I'm a touch long-winded and lose readers from my point often enough to poorly communicate what I'm trying to convey because of it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I work for the federal guvmint. I can only speak for my agency but I can tell you we're a bunch of idiots. If there is any cloak and dagger stuff, it never comes across MY desk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 "When only one part dictates terms, that's a monopoly, that's a tyranny, and that's a fascist state" No, it isn't. I dictate terms all the time. When companies try to get me to buy things on credit or sign up for their credit card or buy their stupid extended warranties, I dictate terms. I refuse to buy them. I do not negotiate because none of these things are in my long term, finical, best interest. Just because the other guy in the negotiation doesn't like my hard line position doesn't make me a tyrant or a fascist or a monopolist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 This has got silly. To those who believe they have agreed to terms and conditions under duress because otherwise they wouldn't have been able to use their smartphone and say this is illegal, fascist and monopolistic. You could do with looking up the meanings of those words.... That isn't duress or monopolistic and it isnt ilegal, that's a choice, you wanted the smartphone enough at the time to accept the terms. You DID have a choice and you made a choice and now you're whining because you made the wrong choice. Get rid of your smart phones or shut up and put up. To those who insist their smart phones listen in to their background noise and provide that information to websites they visit, in real time so they can target advertising in the wrong language based upon what they detect.... You should probably see someone about that. Seriously, some people on this thread must own shares in toil foil suppliers and there is no point discussing this any further. For everyone who is being a normal rational person, just out of interest, do you see any advantage in targeted ads over random, non targeted ones? I ask because, to me, I prefer the former over the latter. Ads are better when there's a chance I'll be interested in them. Just wondering how others feel about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 This has got silly. To those who believe they have agreed to terms and conditions under duress because otherwise they wouldn't have been able to use their smartphone and say this is illegal, fascist and monopolistic. You could do with looking up the meanings of those words.... That isn't duress or monopolistic and it isnt ilegal, that's a choice, you wanted the smartphone enough at the time to accept the terms. You DID have a choice and you made a choice and now you're whining because you made the wrong choice. Get rid of your smart phones or shut up and put up. To those who insist their smart phones listen in to their background noise and provide that information to websites they visit, in real time so they can target advertising in the wrong language based upon what they detect.... You should probably see someone about that. Seriously, some people on this thread must own shares in toil foil suppliers and there is no point discussing this any further. For everyone who is being a normal rational person, just out of interest, do you see any advantage in targeted ads over random, non targeted ones? I ask because, to me, I prefer the former over the latter. Ads are better when there's a chance I'll be interested in them. Just wondering how others feel about that. Will you please stop making sense!?? :) I like targeted ads. Sending me an email copon for a free set of guitar strings if I stop by SamAsh today is a lot more effective than stuffing my mailbox full of coupons for free tampax products. But I'm crazy like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 When only one part dictates terms, that's a monopoly, that's a tyranny, and that's a fascist state. Dude. Holy crap dude. Yer lookin really bad here. If you have kids, don't teach them this. If you don't have kids, good! It simply doesn't have to be as it is dictated to us in user agreements, there are ways to have our fair negotiated say regardless of clicking on "I agree." Otherwise prenups and contracts would never be contested in court legally! Those have actual signatures attached and get terms set aside by legal rulings on a regular basis! No one can make us forfeit our individual rights and liberties under the guise of a legal agreement, it simply cannot happen as they are endowed to us by our creator and we are not able to simply sign them away, they are always there for us to exercise, period. If you would like to not agree, by all means, lead the way brutha, show us all how it is done! If folks outside of our shores don't subscribe to the simple basic premise of American exceptionalism by personal/individual freedom, liberty, and justice for all, that's their problem... It's inalienable for the American citizenry. oholycrap Bro. Dude. Stopped reading. The KooK alarms are on overload here. Get a grip. For starters, I stronly urge you to take two economics classes and get an understanding of how our consumer driven system works. While yer doing that, I really nicely and in a friendly way suggest you tone down the "American exceptionalism" bulls hit. Really. People buy phones so they can tell someone they are going to the mall for cinny buns lol. There is nothing exceptional about us at all. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I work for the federal guvmint. I can only speak for my agency but I can tell you we're a bunch of idiots. If there is any cloak and dagger stuff, it never comes across MY desk. Me too. People would be amazed at how unable to carry out the simplest of conspiracies we actually are. I've worked for four different parts of two different departments, one of those was involved in the Defense of our fair country. They are even worse than the organization I've been in for 20 odd years now. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 People come in to ask for aerial photos and such, and the first thing I tell them is, "You know how on CSI everyone walks into a darkened room and begin touching a laptop and projecting all kinds of hi tech crap all over the walls? Government computers aren't like that. I'll start the program and we'll have time to have a coffee before it's loaded." Then when I go to print something I have to remove my ID card from the card reader on the keyboard, walk to the printer, LOG IN with my id card, pray it recognizes my card and PIN, so I can get a printed copy. That's IF it didn't get lost in the server somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 People come in to ask for aerial photos and such, and the first thing I tell them is, "You know how on CSI everyone walks into a darkened room and begin touching a laptop and projecting all kinds of hi tech crap all over the walls? Government computers aren't like that. I'll start the program and we'll have time to have a coffee before it's loaded." Then when I go to print something I have to remove my ID card from the card reader on the keyboard, walk to the printer, LOG IN with my id card, pray it recognizes my card and PIN, so I can get a printed copy. That's IF it didn't get lost in the server somewhere. Bummer. We have the PIV card. It was supposed to be One Card To Rule Them All, we would be able to go to any facility, get in any door, use any computer, all that stuff, with only one password, all those hundreds of passwords in my list would go away. Right. I used mine once to make sure it worked, put it away, haven't even seen it in two years now. It's useless. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 They gave me mine in 2007 or so. It sat in my drawer until about 6 months ago when they started passively forcing us to use them. I can still log in the old way but at some point "someone" gets a report that I haven't been using my linc pass and I get "reminded". Supposedly I can go to any office and login in as well. Never tried it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtim Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 So the evil masterminds listen to everything we say, record every where we go, track all out purchases and control all media but they can't build an insurance website? This is great :) That is because it i not insurance,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it is a tax on the people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quapman Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 For everyone who is being a normal rational person, just out of interest, do you see any advantage in targeted ads over random, non targeted ones? I ask because, to me, I prefer the former over the latter. Ads are better when there's a chance I'll be interested in them. Just wondering how others feel about that. I will take the liberty of including myself in the 'rational' category seeing as tin foil hats and misconceived entitlement makes my head itchy. Yes of course. I'm not in marketing but I have to imagine that targeting your audience is a basic fundamental of Marketing 101. Personally I despise any form of advertising. I haven't "liked" anything on FB for over 2 years. But yes, if I have to see something,, I will definitely take the guitar strings over the tampons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 That is because it i not insurance,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it is a tax on the people No, when you buy insurance even off the exchange, it's still insurance. I think you're thinking of the fine or penalty which the Supreme Court has decided was a tax even though it didn't originate in the house. It's all very simple. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I work for the federal guvmint. I can only speak for my agency but I can tell you we're a bunch of idiots. If there is any cloak and dagger stuff, it never comes across MY desk. It is so nice to be off the wheel. I hope you can escape soon. Until such time we are freezing annual increments at 0 %, paying employee only single health plans and allowing no additional comp time accumulation. Please complete your work plan for the week, review your mission statement, enter in your computer all current investiagations findings & 6 mo. re-investigation updates. All service plans are due today by 4:30 and you are assigned field hzd intake until further notice. Have a nice day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturn Posted April 22, 2014 Author Share Posted April 22, 2014 I never imagined this thread would be so much fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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