Could we assemble a 'decent deal' list for new Gibsons?

[Smurfbird]

With all the new models and various changes in list prices, I was wondering if we could assemble a general guide for what's a decent deal on a new Gibson?

 

We know that MAP is a starting point and price can be negotiated down from there. So, what is the bottom line on what we should be aiming for on a new guitar and a used guitar in each model?

 

For example, J-35s are advertised at $1699. J-45s are $2199. The true vintage J-45s have more price variables. I see one right now for $2999, while most are advertised at $3499.

 

The J-15 is advertised at $1499. The J-29 is 2149 or 2249.

 

So, what are the prices someone should expect to pay?

 

On a different note, for an entry-level or kick around the house guitar, the Epiphone EL-00 for $299 (advertised -- can it actually go lower?) looks to be a fantastic bargain for an A/E model! Much better than the guitars I started on in the early '80s.

[CAMELEYE]

How about 40% off list. This is fairly common.

[onewilyfool]

Yes, 40% off list is a good rule of thumb…..but sometimes there are specials on the web…..like someone posted that they bought one of the new J-35's for $1350!! That was a good deal!! I went to our local store, they could't match it..so that was a good deal, wish I'd known about it!! Maybe a pinned thread for when there are good deals on Craig's list or Ebay, or other forums for Gibson guitars??? Might be a good quick place to find good deals on used and new Gibson's??

[Pittgibson45]

I don't think you are going to get 40% off of list price on the "hot selling" models. 40% off of a j35 listed at 1699 would be just over 1000 dollars. I don't think they are going for that price anywhere.

[vacamartin]

I don't think you are going to get 40% off of list price on the "hot selling" models. 40% off of a j35 listed at 1699 would be just over 1000 dollars. I don't think they are going for that price anywhere.

 

 

 

 

Can't get 40% off list on quite a few models. Some sellers scoff at that figure. On the OP's suggestion....I'm all for it! But who's going to take the time to compile such a terrific piece of info?

[PickitPaul]

Retail is $2,190 at Sweetwater.com That is what you take the 40 percent from which leaves $1,315.

 

Think Sweetwater will do it? Probably not, but that Is what they should sell for.

[jannusguy2]

Well, I just snagged one of these for 2910.00. New with warranty. I think I did ok….

 

http://www2.gibson.com/products/acoustic-instruments/super-jumbo/gibson-acoustic/western-classic-prewar-200/finishes.aspx

[onewilyfool]

Well, I just snagged one of these for 2910.00. New with warranty. I think I did ok….

 

http://www2.gibson.com/products/acoustic-instruments/super-jumbo/gibson-acoustic/western-classic-prewar-200/finishes.aspx

Nice get!

[bobouz]

On a different note, for an entry-level or kick around the house guitar, the Epiphone EL-00 for $299 (advertised -- can it actually go lower?) looks to be a fantastic bargain for an A/E model!

Funny you should mention the EL-00. After purchasing three new Gibson acoustics within the past eight months, earlier today I went in the other fiscal direction & played three of these cute little Epis. Two sounded rather boxy, but one was simply amazing for what it is. Brought it home for $245. Have to say, there's something quite exciting about buying a super cheap guitar that sounds far better than it has any right to!

[Smurfbird]

Jannus, How in the world did you get such a great deal on such an expensive guitar? What's your trick?

 

Congrats, Bobouz! The EpiEL-00 I tried out definitely wasn't boxy either!

[zombywoof]

Funny you should mention the EL-00. After purchasing three new Gibson acoustics within the past eight months, earlier today I went in the other fiscal direction & played three of these cute little Epis. Two sounded rather boxy, but one was simply amazing for what it is. Brought it home for $245. Have to say, there's something quite exciting about buying a super cheap guitar that sounds far better than it has any right to!

 

 

Interesting that you did find one that worked for you. I have not played a ton of these little guitars but those I did play sounded boxy and just plain thin on the upper end.

 

Going the other direction though has become a way of life for me. Not counting my recent reso purchase, the two I bought before that ran me $30 and $225. The $30 guitar definitely sounds like a $30 guitar. The other one though has gone on to become one of my favorites and gets a whole lot of time out of the case.

[zombywoof]

I have a friend who once said to me you know you have a deal when neither party is overjoyed with it.

 

One of the reasons I stick with used guitars is the wiggle room in bargaining. While haggling is part of the game, I do admit the dance can become a bit tiring and even predictable like waiting for somebody to utter the words "your are killing me" sometime during the process.

[jannusguy2]

Jannus, How in the world did you get such a great deal on such an expensive guitar? What's your trick?

 

Congrats, Bobouz! The EpiEL-00 I tried out definitely wasn't boxy either!

E. M. Shorts in Kansas. Worth a call if you're in the market.

[zombywoof]

E. M. Shorts in Kansas. Worth a call if you're in the market.

 

Or in the eastern part of the state Mass Street Music in Lawrence.

[Red 333]

Well, I just snagged one of these for 2910.00. New with warranty. I think I did ok….

 

http://www2.gibson.com/products/acoustic-instruments/super-jumbo/gibson-acoustic/western-classic-prewar-200/finishes.aspx

 

Great deal! Great looking, too!

 

Red 333

[Phelonious Ponk]

I don't think you are going to get 40% off of list price on the "hot selling" models. 40% off of a j35 listed at 1699 would be just over 1000 dollars. I don't think they are going for that price anywhere.

 

Just took a quick look at J-35s. List - $1699 - at most online dealers. Saw one at $1199, though, so I'll bet most of them would deal.

 

p

[PickitPaul]

That price is not list, its MAP the lowest price that they can advertise it. However 40 percent off List, which is 2190 is 13 and change, as i said in earlier post. That is what you can try to haggle it down to. Good luck with that haggling, most stores will only do 30 percent if that.

[modoc_333]

it all really depends on the store and the guitar in question. If a dealer is in a really bad spot, then they may move a guitar for cost or even below cost if it has been there long enough. a really popular guitar that is constantly on backorder won't have as deep of a discount. especially if the dealer doesn't really need to move that one. also, different dealers will have different overhead that needs to be covered in order to stay in business and not go the way of so many other wonderful shops (closed).

 

Of course you always have that dealer that is barely able to meet minimum buying requirements who will dump it for practically nothing just so he can keep the line. a great deal if you can find it, but really hurts the industry in the long run and this guy rarely stays around long.

 

then there is always the dealer trying to gouge someone. they might even tag the guitar ABOVE MAP! or even ABOVE RETAIL! obviously you should stay away from this guy. He probably is ripping you off in some other way.

 

and then there are the bootleg stores. before you buy, make sure the Gibson website lists the store as an authorized dealer. if it doesn't, then you won't be getting a warranty (no matter what the seller says) and probably are getting ripped off somehow too (not a new guitar, issues, etc). if he lies once, he lies a thousand times.

 

the same applies to Ebay. many manufacturers don't consider ebay a valid way of selling new product and won't honor the warranty. (no matter what the seller tells you).

 

 

 

all of that being said..... yes you can get a good deal. and should. just remember the rules:

 

never demand. ask. you will attract more flies with honey than vinegar. no matter how good you think you are at negotiating, being a hard nosed jerk is never the best method. do you REALLY think that we give the best deal to the jerks? or to the people we like?

 

don't think that all brands have the same price structure. just because you got X% off one brand, don't think the same can be had on another brand. it just doesn't work that way.

 

don't think that you know all of the math. even if you DO know what the dealer cost is on a guitar, it doesn't mean anything. you don't know what the overhead is on the store. it doesn't take into account the fact that the salesman has to be paid, and so much more. i have had customers who think that if they know the our cost for a guitar then it gives them magical powers like catching a leprechaun. that we instantly must sell it for that number. not true. they don't know how much we need to make on the guitar in order to stay in business... and yes that matters. i always want people to feel good about the deal they got. but i want the store to be around next month to sell guitars too. a truly good deal isn't one where one side or the other totally has a 100% win against the other. a truly good deal is where BOTH sides are happy and satisfied that the price, product, and service are fair. I bought a car from a friend today. Maybe I could have bought it for less. maybe he could have sold it for more. i'm happy that both of us walked out happy. i will enjoy my car and buy another one from him down the road. he will be able to pay his bills and help me out later. win-win.

 

 

just make sure you aren't getting ripped off. but, if you want that security, understand that it's just as wrong to rip off someone else.

[fortyearspickn]

Thanks Keith. This makes sense. One other observation, for every guitar a dealer might sell for what he paid Gibson, he will have to sell another at double the markup in order to stay in business. Or. If he sells one in five at cost, the other four have to be marked up to make up the difference. It's simple math. If rent, utilities and salaries are 40% of the total cost of inventory and you need 10% profit to feed your own family and expand your store, you have to charge $1500 for a guitar you purchased for $1000. Brick and mortar stores have higher overhead costs than the online retailers, so on line retailers can make more.

Most everyone is familiar with the cliche "never pay retail", but the real mantra is "never sell below full cost". So, the only real wiggle room is how much "evil" profit the dealer can make.

And, final note, this is all complicated by the base price of the item and how many you sell. You would have to sell a LOT of picks marked up at 1000% to make up for selling just one Gibson at what the dealer paid for it.

This really just re-hashes what MODOC clearly explained above.

So my answer to the OP would be not to expect to find deals like JannusGuy got, especially if you have a specific model in mind. The variation in what you will pay will rarely vary by more than 10%, so that's the premium you can expect to pay to get the best sounding example of the specific model you're looking for. For every deal like JannusGuys, there are ten who paid above market. The other 89% pay real close to market.

[Smurfbird]

Good points, all around.

 

I especially appreciate Keith (Modoc) chiming in, as he has experience on both sides of the transaction and has seen how it works up close.

 

My original intention was to find the "decent deal." And that's what I meant. No one wants to feel like the chump who paid the sticker price when there's a standard discount usually applied.

[blindboygrunt]

Yeah ! Thanks jannusguy! Thanks a bloody lot!!

[retrorod]

Yeah ! Thanks jannusguy! Thanks a bloody lot!!

 

Now you can "take it in the Shorts".....You are a funny man,bbg....

[modoc_333]

Good points, all around.

 

I especially appreciate Keith (Modoc) chiming in, as he has experience on both sides of the transaction and has seen how it works up close.

 

My original intention was to find the "decent deal." And that's what I meant. No one wants to feel like the chump who paid the sticker price when there's a standard discount usually applied.

 

 

and that's a good approach. the real trick is to find someone you can trust as a person and then build a relationship. it will get you the best deal down the road. back to the car i just bought.... i actually bought it from a guy that used work with me at the guitar shop. i drug my feet and took all day to make up my mind. we had lunch together. we talked a lot about selling and such. I know he made money on the car. i am really glad that he did. i went to him because i wanted to make sure that i didn't get screwed. i wanted to make sure of the same thing that Smurfbird mentioned above. i didn't want to be the chump. on the other hand, i NEEDED a car. SOMEONE was going to get my money. I made sure that it went to someone i knew i could trust down the road. i am happy for him to stay in business. i may need him later! ;)

 

 

 

i will share one interesting conversation that we had over lunch. we were talking about sales training. obviously we were looking from the salesman standpoint, but it's a good thing to keep in mind if you are the buyer. I asked him: "what's the most important thing you learned in your sales training since you started selling cars instead of guitars?" he had an interesting answer. he said that he was always taught that the first thing is to get the person comfortable with you so that you can have a chance to make a sale. they said that the way to do it is to find some common ground. if you are selling cars but find out that the buyer is a guitar player, then you should talk about that. it will build trust and help you out. pretty good advice, right? maybe not. he said that he has found this isn't the best way. he said that the best way is to make the buyer feel like he is dealing with a professional. people want to feel like they salesman knows his stuff, will get them the right thing, and is handling the deal in a proper way. this means you get the right item because he knows what he is talking about. you will get a fair price because he isn't some amateur con artist. you will feel confident that all went as it should. that's what we all really want as a buyer, right? also, it thought it was very important to note that his answer had nothing to do with getting the most money out of the customer that he could. he wants the customer comfortable with him, but his type priority is to be a pro. i think that says a lot and i try to do the same thing in my dealings. i think it is also a good thing to keep in mind as a customer. don't look for the slick guy. don't look for the smooth talker or the guy trying to be your buddy. don't look for the guy trying to make a quick buck. don't look for the guy trying to move some stale inventory for cheap. look for the guy who takes pride in himself and his profession. look for the guy that is concerned with making sure you tell people about how EVERY aspect of your transaction was good. look for the pro. in the end, this will get you the right item, for the right price, with a good experience, and a great feeling when you walk away.