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Fender-Guild-Ren update


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Actually...

 

Bison dung is remarkably like any other bovine dung.

 

If you're in the bison business or where it's part of the local economy, it smells just fine. Without it there would be no bison steaks or burgers, no buffalo robes, no connection to the onetime ruling creature of the plains and its history, or to the people and cultures it sustained for thousands of years.

 

If you're not of that outlook, it's likely a horrid smell.

 

It's pretty much the same with nitrocellulose.

 

m

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This has taken a rather interesting turn.

 

The little town of Gardiner Montana has a resident population of Bison and every Spring when the snow melts the Gardiner folks find an over abundance of Bison chips. They go out and pick it up and sell it as fertilizer. They sell the stuff to the Greenies as "special organic" fertilizer. I would love to send a truck load of it to my favorite, Jannusguy. Just to show there are no hard feelings Jannusguy if you come to Montana I will take you out and let you pet as many Bison as you want.

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How do you spray bison dung? Does it give off a wonderful aroma like fresh nitro when you open the case? Can you get a nice sunburst finish with bison dung, or is it a sh--tburst?

 

Sorry, I shouldn't have had that second glass of cabernet tonight.....

 

How many ppm of dung does the EPA allow before they fine the herd?

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Hogeye...

 

I do hope you're kidding about encouraging anyone to pet a bison... Sheesh.

 

For those less aware, they're the only bovines I've seen or even heard of that can get so fired up they'll rip off their own horns in steel pipe corrals; can turn on a dime at full run and give you nine cents change - and make a Mexican fighting bull or a rodeo riding bull look like a calm and weak sister.

 

As for other questions on the "dung," it's as natural as the grass it feeds on the prairies - and once fed on, and for, forest America before humans ensured that they'd "go away."

 

Anyway, although considered separate species, the American Bison is quite similar to domestic cattle in "lifestyle" and can interbreed. One might note that their dung, as any bovine dung, can make for excellent fertilizer.

 

OTOH, they're generally considered more of a threat to humans who encounter them in national/state parks without exceptional fencing than are bears. Petting ain't recommended.

 

m

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This has taken a rather interesting turn.

 

The little town of Gardiner Montana has a resident population of Bison and every Spring when the snow melts the Gardiner folks find an over abundance of Bison chips. They go out and pick it up and sell it as fertilizer. They sell the stuff to the Greenies as "special organic" fertilizer. I would love to send a truck load of it to my favorite, Jannusguy. Just to show there are no hard feelings Jannusguy if you come to Montana I will take you out and let you pet as many Bison as you want.

I have a better idea of what you can do with it and you'll save on shipping!

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Yeah, "we" know about Guild, etc., but go out on the street and tell a high school kid's Dad that you'll give him up to $1,500 for a flattop. Then ask him what brand he'd be looking for. Wanna bet "Guild" comes up as a known quantity in more than 5 percent or less?

 

Its a shame because the Orpheum line that Ren developed for Guild is something special. I've only seen a couple of them but you can tell from a distance that they are not run of the mill Guilds...and when you pick one up it confirms that suspicion. The kid would be doing great if he got one of those but unfortunately I don't think he will bring one home for $1500...

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Then again, there's the "product image" of Guild - such as it is even among a lotta pickers.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking product quality at any price point. The question is whether the marque has lost whatever it may have had decades ago in terms of market image, and whether it has any image at all outside those who are among a "guitar player/musician community."

 

Bottom line isn't whether it's a good to potentially great instrument whoever designed whatever model, the question is whether it has the image in the marketplace to give it a strong enough appeal even to try one.

 

Can the company now sell a Guild for as much or more than a Gallagher or other semi-customs?

 

Let's face it, pre-Ren, Guild was a niche market - even in the '60s and '70s heyday of the brand. That's regardless of some reeeeally nice instruments. I still have one myself and it's IMHO better than excellent. But you could sell about anything in those decades and "Gibson" and "Fender" and "Martin" retained a better general market recognition factor than Guild or Ovation or Gretsch, etc.

 

My point is that Fender did doggone little to take Guild out of the niche into which it was seen among those in the know, either the musician side or the business side. The "first time consumer" knew the 60s and 70s big three and maybe... oh, yeah, there's other stuff, but they aren't "the" guitars you really need.

 

Right or wrong is irrelevant when it comes to product and brand image.

 

Nobody did much to take Guild either into the mainstream of guitar recognition since Fender took over, nor did they position it as a "specialty niche" instrument. (Possible exception the 12-string, but only pickers tend to buy 12-strings and it's a niche market.)

 

I'm not saying there haven't been good instruments with the Guild name, what I'm saying is that Guild has to get over the hurdle of "yeah, Guild is a good guitar, but it ain't a...."

 

Taylor, in fact, may have taken what advanced niche Guild might have occupied. But it had an apparently better business and product mix.

 

Does Guild under Cordoba want to be a high-end Ren guitar made in the US, with perhaps a renewal of older Guild designs made overseas to compete with Epi plywood or Martin particle board guitars?

 

Fun questions to ask and discuss over a coffee or other libation of choice.

 

m

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Hogeye...

 

I do hope you're kidding about encouraging anyone to pet a bison... Sheesh.

 

For those less aware, they're the only bovines I've seen or even heard of that can get so fired up they'll rip off their own horns in steel pipe corrals; can turn on a dime at full run and give you nine cents change - and make a Mexican fighting bull or a rodeo riding bull look like a calm and weak sister.

 

As for other questions on the "dung," it's as natural as the grass it feeds on the prairies - and once fed on, and for, forest America before humans ensured that they'd "go away."

 

Anyway, although considered separate species, the American Bison is quite similar to domestic cattle in "lifestyle" and can interbreed. One might note that their dung, as any bovine dung, can make for excellent fertilizer.

 

OTOH, they're generally considered more of a threat to humans who encounter them in national/state parks without exceptional fencing than are bears. Petting ain't recommended.

 

m

 

Well, as 'psycho-billy" Roger Miller so aptly told us "You can't Roller Skate In a Buffalo Herd"

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Having been brought up in the land of bison and other bovines, I'd suggest it ain't necessarily sensible to rollerskate in a herd of first calf heifers, either, so I'd advise the inexperienced to stay on the other side of the fence if they're at a branding.

 

But you can be happy if you've a mind to be.

 

All kidding aside, I'm far more comfortable around the big and not always peaceful bulls used in pro rodeo events than buffalo male or female. Then again, if one has seen bovine critters only in a zoo, it's a different perspective than when they're unpenned and roving the northern plains rangeland.

 

It ain't city; it ain't even farm country. The speaker pro-tem of the state's house of representatives took a horse wreck last week at a branding and, I hope and pray, he comes through a batch of surgeries to get him rebuilt.

 

Oh - he played for the Philadelphia Eagles a cupla years too in his younger days, and was working like a young cowhand when his horse acted up, even though he's even older than I am.

 

Even "tamed" critters are still critters.

 

As our discussion of Ren and Guild and Fender exemplifies, folks are critters too - and don't always play cooperativesly with others.

 

m

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The best, IMHO, solidbody guitar I've ever had my hands on is my own Guild S100c carved-top SG "clone" from the early '70s.

 

One problem for Guild through the years, I think, is a continuously-expanding media and increasing difficulty of advertising.

 

Yeah, "we" know about Guild, etc., but go out on the street and tell a high school kid's Dad that you'll give him up to $1,500 for a flattop. Then ask him what brand he'd be looking for. Wanna bet "Guild" comes up as a known quantity in more than 5 percent or less?

 

m

It seems to be truth.

Last summer I bought my Gibson J35 from the shop of the only Gibson dealer here in Sofia, Bulgaria.

I maintain good relations with the boys in the shop - wonderful guitarists.

Few months ago, passing by the shop I told the manager of the shop - a 32 yesrs old boy that I just purchased a Guild D55.

And he said: "... what?"

He didn't know even the name of the company.......

Next day I brought them my MR GUILD D55 to show what a guild guitar is.

Well I know that my country is not a place to buy a high and metalstring acoustic guitar these days, but these boys are in the shop full of guitars and they are

watching youtube clips all day long.... And everyone wants a Tailor...

 

 

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Amen to that Milod, I'm counting the years (wish it were months or days) to move from a city to a smaller town & be close to the "country." Esp. West & Southwest.

 

Just me but the city life has been too old and has no attraction to me for years now. Just my work & business is all I have holding me here.

 

Aster

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When Charlie Kaman bought that factory heating oil was $.50 a gallon. It is a huge old building that is hard to keep climate controlled. I love the old place and really enjoyed watching them build some incredible guitars there, but it was NOT an efficient operation (just EXCELLENT!). One semi-good thing about the change is that Fender is allowing existing stock to go pretty cheap. I have an F-30 Aragon and an F-47RC on the way to me as we speak. Shoot - I might have to change my name to GuildJunkie! :)

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When Charlie Kaman bought that factory heating oil was $.50 a gallon. It is a huge old building that is hard to keep climate controlled. I love the old place and really enjoyed watching them build some incredible guitars there, but it was NOT an efficient operation (just EXCELLENT!). One semi-good thing about the change is that Fender is allowing existing stock to go pretty cheap. I have an F-30 Aragon and an F-47RC on the way to me as we speak. Shoot - I might have to change my name to GuildJunkie! :)

 

Drop me a note where you got those from. Mus. Friend looks like they moved the D-55 into private reserve and now they are $3200+. I would jump on one if they were closing them out closer to $2300-2400.

 

Aster

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Drop me a note where you got those from. Mus. Friend looks like they moved the D-55 into private reserve and now they are $3200+. I would jump on one if they were closing them out closer to $2300-2400.

 

Aster

I got my D55 in january 2014. I payed 1999USD.

The dealer is "rockystreetsounds" on e-bay.

The guitar was not played, but may be was a floor model.

Flawless instrument!!!

Here is one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GUILD-D50-BLUEGRASS-SPECIAL-ANTIQUE-BURST-GUITAR-W-HARDSHELL-NP053005-/301195126587?pt=Guitar&hash=item4620a0e73b

 

 

 

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Had a Westerly D-50 (less blingy D-55, same specs) as my go-to for many years. Heavy as a tank, but versatile, responsive and magnificent- sounding.

 

But I lusted after the sound of the J200, which was the only thing the D-50 couldn't manage to do. Had to sell it for $650 (!!) in 2001 at a guitar show in Dallas upon hearing what I craved in my J100xt. I scraped up another $200 and came home with it.

 

Except for wishing I could have kept both, I got no regrets.

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Except for wishing I could have kept both, I got no regrets.

If only we could keep them all.

 

After going through four different models in a row, my Guild days ended around 1981 when I traded in a Guild F-40 for a little Martin OO-18. Guess I still carried that maple jumbo tone in my head, because like you Anne, my '00 J100-Xtra is now an ongoing favorite.

 

Similarly - no regrets!

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