Advanced Jumbo varieties

[vw1300]

I've been doing bluegrass style playing lately and am thinking about picking up a rosewood dreadnaught. I've really like the AJs I've played but wouldn't rule out a good D28.

 

Gibson being Gibson, there are probably several varieties of AJs out there. Lots of regular versions, which seem to run in the mid-to-upper teens in cost and I'm pretty sure I would be happy with. Just to be sure though, what other versions should I be aware of? I know Fuller's has their special version, how about other shops? Are there any versions in particular I should seek out?

 

I've played the J-29 already and it doesn't have the big, deep sound of an AJ. The J-45 custom I played at Wildwood last year was fantastic so I can't rule those out. What are the non-cosmetic differences between those two guitars?

 

Thanks,

 

Charlie

[Stubee]

There have been a number of versions including ones with maple back/sides, Madasgar RW back/sides, even short scale models IIRC.

 

I've owned the 'standard' version for 11 years and recommend just getting that as they are closest to the real AJ vibe. I bought mine after playing a couple vintage AJs &

realizing I just wasn't gonna drop that kinda coin on a guitar I play everywhere.

 

The 'standard' AJRI was the only AJRI for quite awhile until Gibson started making all types of variations. A good example of a 'standard' AJRI is still pretty damned close to the originals (other than being 'new') IME.

 

Nothing against other versions or RW J-45s etc, but if you really want an AJRI, get the regular model and you'll be there.

[JuanCarlosVejar]

Rainbow Guitars has a birdseye maple Iron Mountain Advanced Jumbo .

I've heard those are beasts .

 

 

 

 

 

JC

[Pittgibson45]

What are the non-cosmetic differences between those two guitars?

 

Thanks,

 

Charlie

 

A 45 is a short scale neck, and an AJ is almost always a "normal" or long scale neck. Also a 45 has a standard X brace pattern, while an AJ has a wider "advanced " bracing pattern that leaves the lower bout some more open space.

[fortyearspickn]

Rainbow Guitars has a birdseye maple Iron Mountain Advanced Jumbo .

I've heard those are beasts .

 

 

I've read a few threads over on the AGF crediting the standard AJ / Rosewood with being a 'cannon' worthy of Bluegrassing. So, I'd definitely AB with Martins and lean in that direction.

BTW, I just bought a nice new Gibson from Rainbow. They are a 5Star Dealer in AZ - and I would recommend them 100%. Harvey or Stefan.

G'luck

 

 

FYP

[The G]

I've been doing bluegrass style playing lately and am thinking about picking up a rosewood dreadnaught. I've really like the AJs I've played but wouldn't rule out a good D28.

 

Gibson being Gibson, there are probably several varieties of AJs out there. Lots of regular versions, which seem to run in the mid-to-upper teens in cost and I'm pretty sure I would be happy with. Just to be sure though, what other versions should I be aware of? I know Fuller's has their special version, how about other shops? Are there any versions in particular I should seek out?

 

I've played the J-29 already and it doesn't have the big, deep sound of an AJ. The J-45 custom I played at Wildwood last year was fantastic so I can't rule those out. What are the non-cosmetic differences between those two guitars?

 

Thanks,

 

Charlie

 

 

 

Can't beat a D-18,or D-28 or one of their variations if Bluegrass is your main focus.

[Phelonious Ponk]

There are lot of variation out there but a true AJ is long scale and rosewood. And Adirondack if you can find it. Don't buy a Martin. They sound nice but they look like the box your AJ will ship in, and you'll look like every other guitar player at the bluegrass jam. Dare to be different!

 

P

[BigKahune]

.

See if you can find a AJ Red Spruce (adi) to try out. The adi and rosewood is quite the combo for both tone and volume.

 

 

.

[Stefano Sunburst]

The AJ's reisues are great, but generally, the necks seem very slim. The early reissues had nice 1 3/4" wide necks at the nut, but all seem to be very low profile (probably how most people like them). If I could find a good deal on one with a THICK neck (.880 plus at the first fret) and 1 3/4" at the nut, I'd be stoked. I like the size of those necks they did on the recent Southern Jumbo vintage reissues, that were mean't to be copies of John Thomas's guitar (approx. .950 at the first fret and 1.00 plus at the tenth).. Unfortunately those all got snapped up fast. I wish big necks were easier to come by. I like all the OTHER features of the AJ reissues. Beautiful guitars. Most bluegrassers seem to prefer Martin D28's or 18's, or that style by other makers. Seems like Gibsons are slowly increasing in popularity in the BG world and In Texas, fiddle players almost insist on Gibsons for backup.

Swang on,

[Stefano Sunburst]

Sorry, double post.

Swang on,

[chasAK]

"Gibson being Gibson, there are probably several varieties of AJs out there."

 

How many varieties of the d28 are there? I just looked on their web site and counted at least 8.

[vw1300]

"Gibson being Gibson, there are probably several varieties of AJs out there."

 

How many varieties of the d28 are there? I just looked on their web site and counted at least 8.

 

I know! But I figured the UMGF would be a better place to ask about that - although I'd welcome comments on D28s here.

 

The thick necks and adirondack spruce would be desirable, although the regular AJs I've played already seem really good, so I don't think I can really lose here. I admit I'm biased towards the AJ vs. the D28, but when spending this kind of money on a bluegrass guitar, I feel like I really should examine my options, which also includes Guilds etc., but the D28s/AJs seem easy to find and I don't want this search to take forever either.

[chasAK]

I'm not necessarily a bluegrass guy. Personally I'm not a big fan of the AJ, though many people are! The only one I really liked had an adi.top. That one was nice. If I were looking for a d28 I would look for an hd 28,or another model that had the scalloped bracing. Looking at their web site the d28v has scalloped and forward shift bracing. But you probably already know all that. The only AJ with an adi. top on Gibson's web site is the 1935 AJ. The oneI played was out before the 1935 reissue came out. Anway have fun playing them in your search and I hope you get one, be it Gibson or Martin, that resonates with you and meets your needs!

 

[DRC]

For what it's worth, I've heard many bluegrassers playing J-45s of one sort or another and they sound great in that environment. Sean Watkins of Nickel Creek isn't too shabby playing bluegrass and he's playing a J-45. Check this out....

 

[vw1300]

Thanks for all the replies. Will keep an eye out for Adi top, but will keep playing regular ones too - I know a lot of folks here have them and like them.

 

@DRC - liked the Sean Watkins link, I'll check out his other videos too.

[Dotneck]

I've had a standard IR/spruce AJ for about seven years now. Got it at guitar center when it was on sale...I'm happy as a clam with it. Its my only dreadnaught sized guitar. I don't need any of the AJ variations...the original design was just right. I don't expect I'll begetting rid of it anytime soon.

[milod]

I guess even the term "bluegrass" might could use a bit of definition.

 

One reason the Martin, especially rosewood, D body has been so popular for bluegrassers is that used for rhythm guitar, it has lots of bottom - although I'm guessing we've all known guys who could be pretty fancy with a flatpick and fairly heavy strings.

 

Do you consider Carter Family material and style "bluegrass?" If so, don't forget Mother Maybelle's big old Gibson archtop with ultra-heavy strings and a capo.

 

Gibson designs, at least, tend to have more balance but - is that what you want if bashing on a guitar far from a mike while the banjo, fiddle, mandolin and dobro are at the mikes?

 

Personal opinion?

 

If you're gonna get one and are all near a store with 3-5 variants, spend the time to see which big box feels like it should be part of you. It's more likely to sing however you string, setup and/or play.

 

Your choice likely would be different from mine or somebody else here.

 

But that's only right: It'll be your guitar for what you do, not mine or somebody else's.

 

For what it's worth, back in the '70s I did a lot of "old time" and bluegrass and there were Martins galore. I got a lotta funny looks with my first generation AE Ovation Electric Legend. But there were always guys from all over the country asking me to back 'em up at the festival where I lived at the time from'72 to 79, so I guess they weren't all that embarrassed by playing with somebody whose guitar had a fiberglass back and however you wanna describe the tone... I loved the neck and used the thing AE electrified doing country in saloons for money most weekends back then. Still have it, too, some 40 years later.

 

The point is that it's gonna be your guitar to answer your needs and overall aesthetic and physical playing comfort - not mine or anybody else's or anybody else's opinion on "brand."

 

m

[bonne]

I have one here from 1995 with a natural top and a label saying "Vintage AJ". Great sounding instrument that easily holds it's own against Martin D28's.

 

What's the story with the vintage part of the name, does anyone know the details on that?

 

JB

[mahog18fsh]

AJs are sweet guitars no doubt. I was part of a Artist endorsment back in 1993 and had a Braz RW back and sides with a Adi top, and traded it, and regretted it to this day. I had found it believe it or not 15 years later for sale in Canada, but due to some sort of US to Canada trade on the internet, I couldn't contact the owner to try and buy it back.........I think of that guitar all the time.

[vw1300]

Went to local GC this weekend to play D-28s back to back with AJs. For the first time in several years of shopping there, they had no AJs for sale. Salesman said they tend to sell in "clumps" and more were on the way. Played a new D-28 that was very good but not magical. More annoying was their selection of used guitars. They had '70 and '71 D-28s, both needed neck work desperately - saddles were barely above bridges and the sound suffered. Better was a '71 Guild which had potential but also needed some neck work.

 

Since I was already there, I turned my attention to other models - I played their '50s J-45 reissue with the reddish sunburst, it looked very cool and sounded good - seemed very lightly built. If I was looking for J-45 I would seriously consider it. Also played a J-29 which I really liked a lot - deep and punchy, but less in your face than an AJ - I'm looking for the full AJ sound, but this one was a winner in its own way.

[vw1300]

I recently picked up this 2006 AJ from GC. They have a generous return policy so I put some Martin SP strings on it when I got it a week ago. I'm so used to the narrower neck and shorter scale of my J-50 that I'm still getting accustomed to finding the notes. I put on the Martins because when I searched this and the AGF, several people mentioned them for rosewood guitars. Others preferred 80/20s, I may still put a set on before my trial period is up.

 

So far I'm enjoying the new guitar, not quite sure if I'm keeping it yet though. If I do, I'll miss playing the J-50, I'm not sure I need both.

 

EDIT: My picture was upright when I looked at it on the computer, not sure why the forum shows it sideways when you open it. Does it always orient pictures so they are in a landscape mode?

[Phelonious Ponk]

 

Do you consider Carter Family material and style "bluegrass?" If so, don't forget Mother Maybelle's big old Gibson archtop with ultra-heavy strings and a capo.

 

m

 

Nah, that's "Old Time" country, of which Bluegrass is derivative. Sort of Bluegrass without the chops. Most importantly, for guitar choices, it doesn't usually have the punch and volume needs of bluegrass. I'm not a big Martin fan, but they have their place, and Bluegrass is one of them. Still, an AJ would hold it's own just fine.

 

P

[62burst]

AJs are... traded it, ... regretted it to this day. I had found it, believe it or not, 15 years later for sale in Canada, but due to some sort of US to Canada trade on the internet, I couldn't contact the owner to try and buy it back.........I think of that guitar all the time.

 

Nice post, Hogfsh. Of course, as far as that AJ "getting away" ... "ain't no mountain..."

 

 

 

I recently picked up this 2006 AJ from GC. They have a generous return policy so I put some Martin SP strings on it when I got it a week ago. I'm so used to the narrower neck and shorter scale of my J-50 that I'm still getting accustomed to finding the notes. I put on the Martins because when I searched this and the AGF, several people mentioned them for rosewood guitars. Others preferred 80/20s, I may still put a set on before my trial period is up.

 

So far I'm enjoying the new guitar, not quite sure if I'm keeping it yet though. If I do, I'll miss playing the J-50, I'm not sure I need both.

 

Congrats on the new AJ. A fine choice, Charlie! Of course, nobody needs both. Define "needs" ; ) . If it weren't for yin, could yang exist?

 

Ps- P.O.I.D.H. !

 

EDIT: My picture was upright when I looked at it on the computer, not sure why the forum shows it sideways when you open it. Does it always orient pictures so they are in a landscape mode?

If you take photos with your iPhone (rotated 90 degrees, "landscape mode"), make sure to keep the round "home" button to the right side. Also- in Photobucket, click on your PB id->albums->upload options. Experiment w/ those settings. You can check a box to have your images automatically rotated 90 deg.

 

'Rose has great bass note clarity when in the form of something slope shouldered and advanced:

 

 

Birdseye maple = more sweet and bright:

 

[vw1300]

I guess even the term "bluegrass" might could use a bit of definition.

 

One reason the Martin, especially rosewood, D body has been so popular for bluegrassers is that used for rhythm guitar, it has lots of bottom - although I'm guessing we've all known guys who could be pretty fancy with a flatpick and fairly heavy strings.

 

Do you consider Carter Family material and style "bluegrass?" If so, don't forget Mother Maybelle's big old Gibson archtop with ultra-heavy strings and a capo.

 

 

Sorry to be late with a response Milod - I more or less agree with the other responder's description that it's bluegrass without chops, although that's kind of harsh but we'll go with it. Regarding Maybelle, what a great example of someone developing a style that suits their music and medium so well.

 

Who knows - maybe in a few years I'll decide to move over to a D28 or something? It's fun to contemplate that at some point we'll pick up another guitar somewhere and hear something new and beautiful. I'm good for a while though.

[milod]

The thing with Bluegrass compared to "old time" to me is 90 percent a difference in environment and technology.

 

Yeah, you can point to this or that difference, but... I guess I tend more personally toward considering commonalities.

 

That is, Mother Maybelle's archtop was heavy on the mids and that's what worked with microphones in that era whether for recording or for live radio performance. There weren't that many mikes in use until the '30s; part-time country musicians had opportunities to do music instead of just subsistence farming, and then...

 

Once one had microphones that better covered the sound spectrum, the big boomers with lotza bass came into their own. In terms of bluegrass, for example, the heavier bass of a D-something actually "worked" in ways it did without mikes in a small venue, but did not for recording and live radio. Also the radio of the '30s live era began to encourage a broader response across the spectrum we could hear.

 

The bass fiddle thumped along, the guitar added a low-end rhythm and chording, the fiddle and mandolin added a high end. All was similar across genres that then expanded in response largely to technology. That way "bluegrass" emerged from "old time" and Bill Monroe was a great showman and promoter. Western Swing and Bob Wills similarly used the technology at about the same time although with some different instrumentation and style concepts based on their growing-up musical environments.

 

If one listens to the same song in a mid '30s "big band" arrangement and compares it to one even in the early-mid 1940s a huge change is obvious as better technology allowed different sorts of instrumentation without "muddying" the sound from recordings or on radio. Look on Youtube, for example to compare the 1939 hit "Deep Purple" with Larry Clinton's arrangement and Bea Wain's singing to Artie Shaw's arrangement and Helen Forrest singing. Clinton's is "old style" in the sense that the arrangement hit mids and Shaw's hits a lot more on the low end - yet the two arrangements aren't all that far apart in recording, just what technology they were essentially arranged for.

 

Monroe was developing what he was doing from the old mountain area type tunes and concepts at the same time Lawrence Welk and Bob Wills were doing their thing developing music that sounded better given the mid 1930s into the '40s technology. There was experimentation with how best to use the new media and offer some differentiation - even as bands do today. For a while there even was an accordion in Monroe's "bluegrass" band.

 

A friend used to say that Monroe couldn't even talk without being in mountain "modal" tones. Across the board in the years leading up to, and following WWII, you had "popular" musicians developing the sort of virtuosity previously only found among "serious musicians."

 

I dunno. I think there's a lot more common sound between a jam one might have heard at a Monroe "sit down and relax" jam and a Carter "sit down and relax" jam than one might imagine - although there were plenty of egos in the 20s and 30s scene too.

 

The big difference came as all of this batch of folks began to be exposed to different musics in ways that simply hadn't happened before, and it came with major changes in technology that seemed to accelerate even as it seems to today.

 

So... a lotta talented musicians basically looked for ways to exploit the technology and increasing virtuosity and depth of musical mindset into expanding their own musical traditions through expanding concepts.

 

To me, for example, once "folk blues" went electric, as in Chicago or "swing" as in New York, you had explosions of developments of theme but... with similar foundations.

 

Maybe there's too much of the musicologist in me but... I don't see such a huge difference between "old time" and "bluegrass," and I've done both at various venues in the '70s when it seemed to be a bigger deal than today, at least around here.

 

m