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Recording at home


btoth76

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Hello!

 

I am thinking about establishing a home recording environment. As many of You might already know, I am a bedroom-player, without talent and ambition to become a pro.

 

I'd like to ask those of You, who have already found proven ways of making quality records at home, - obviously - without spending massive amount of money. In my case, buying expensive equipment simply makes no sense. I am looking for the best price-effective solution.

 

What I would like to become able to, is to record signals from front of my amps (also directly from my Low-Z LP Recording), piano, harmonium. Also to mix tracks, connect a drum computer.

 

Please share with me, how You do it? What equipment You are using (mics, cables, softwares, audio interfaces, etc...)

 

Thank You in advance... Bence

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For a few years now I simply use a canon digital camera and record my live playing to backing tracks or songs in my home studio that I built for me and my daughter...

 

It's simply a room I built in the basement to house our guitars amps and musical instruments and gear...

 

I downloaded some free or quite cheap software off the internet for converting the recorded vids that the canon records as AVI format and convert them to MP4 for vids to post on YouTube or to MP3 to put back on a playlist on my iPod...

 

RealPlayer Plus comes with RealPlayer Converter and will do the job just fine. I also happen to have purchased Prism Video Converter from NCH software because I think it can convert the audio to a slightly higher quality without some imperfections I've noted in an odd example from time to time in the RealPlayer conversions.

 

My drummer has Garage Band on his Mac laptop as does my daughter and we're just now experimenting with direct feed recordings instead of live room recording thru the mic on my digital camera and it makes a huge difference in sound clarity and quality.

 

Personally I purchased a Line6 DT50-212 and a Pod HD500X for my own modeling experimentation, but they are also great for direct recording in an app like Garage Band.

 

We're just getting our feet wet in it for ourselves so I don't have alot of knowledge or wisdom to input, but a cheaper Tascam or other live handheld audio or audio/video recording device basically works like my digital cam with higher quality...

 

Upload to computer, and download to iPod or upload to YouTube...

 

I found that MP4 is the smallest file format that plays and looks the best when uploaded to Youtube. Flash files are often jerky and don't record enough frames to keep the video from looking halting and odd...

 

Other than that find what apps you like that work best for you that you find comfortable and successfully accomplishes what you are looking to do...

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Hey Bence!!

 

a lot of people might suggest a PC based solution. I wouldn't, I've just never had a lot of luck with that setup (and I have excellent hardware and a great USB interface and pro tools).. When it works, it's fantastic,, when it doesn't... it's a nightmare, and I spent more time trying to figure out what is going on then doing what I set out to do..

 

Actually RECORD something..

 

I would suggest that you check out the all-in-1, multi track hard disk recorders. They've become pretty affordable (I am not sure what your budget is) and if you take a gander on E-Bay, you can probably find tons of them that you can pickup for low dollars.

 

I use (what is now considered ANCIENT) a Roland VS880-EX. I turn it on, press record, and it works - every stinking time!

 

one of the guys in the band I'm in has one of these:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DP24/

 

 

maybe something like this does the job for you:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DP008EX/

 

and if you look on E-bay, do some searches for the Roland VS series The have 8, 16, and 24 track units,

 

Almost all of these most have built in CD Recorders so you can go straight from your mastered tracks, to CD.

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A list of my things:

 

Reaper DAW (cheap because it doesn't come loaded with virtual instruments)

 

Focusrite Scarlet 2i2 Audio Interface (to handle all that sound your computer can't handle)

 

Yamaha MG82cx mixer (used when I want effects on my microphone, often I plug mics right to my 2i2)

 

condencer and dynamic microphones

 

Yamaha monitors (to hear things right you've got to have flat monitors)

 

Mixing headphones (to hear things right and record things without bleed)

 

These items were enough to get me started. A grand at most.

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I use reaper as well. I paid $64 for that and picked up a used M-audio interface on eBay for $100. I also use Peavy Revalver for my amps and effects. After that, a low end midi keyboard and your ready to record. I'm like you, I know I'll never be a pro, but it's fun listing to recordings of me on my iPod.

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Thanks for all the comments.

 

Ray: Donny suggested me the 24-track Tascam too. I wanted too hear other alternatives too, mostly PC-based solutions - which are obviously the cheapest way.

 

Izzy: Hello! Where have You been? :) Your suggestion seems to be closer to my thinking at this time. PC, monitor speakers are already available, I need a good software, interface and mics then...

 

Cheers... Bence

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Focusrite Scarlet 2i2 Audio Interface... often I plug mics right to my 2i2

 

Another guy I was talking to just got a Scarlet. Apparently it comes with Ableton Live Lite, which I expect will handle your multitracking needs. I use a similar Tascam USB interface. My Motif XS came with Cubase AI (also a lite version), which does everything I want it to (a few examples). I plug my keys or guitars straight into the interface, but you can also run them through your amp and then out to the interface. You'll likely have to read the directions [scared] to get set up, but then you ought to be good to go!

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I use an inexpensive Lexicon interface that came with recording software for less than $100.00. It's not Pro stuff, but it does what I need it to do nicely.

You could also download Audacity for free - it's easy to use and the price is right. I use Audacity all the time to change keys (due to vocalist's demands msp_scared.gif) or to slow the tempo to learn difficult runs, and you can certainly use it for recording as well. If you use Audacity, you'll want to download Lame. Lame works with Audacity to export your work in mp3 format, and it's free too.

 

A few years ago I got Cubase software; an excellent program, but it's expensive and not easy to learn. I spent more time trying to figure out how to use the software than actually playing or recording. But I'm a bass player and I like simple things msp_unsure.gif.

 

Try the cheap or free route first - it may be all you need.

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a lot of people might suggest a PC based solution. I wouldn't,,When it works, it's fantastic,, when it doesn't... it's a nightmare, and I spent more time trying to figure out what is going on then doing what I set out to do..

 

Actually RECORD something..

 

 

 

^^This right here pretty much sums it up.^^

 

 

I would also recommend a standalone.

 

I ended up with a Zoom R8. Came with a version of Cubase.

 

The Cubase software it not intuitive at all. If you're OK with spending your time with your nose in the manual then it will

be OK. I'm lazy and I want immediate results.

 

And while the R8 isn't the most intuitive unit, there are a lot of good online tutorials that get you going.

Sound quality is quite good. The DAW interface works really well if you want to use Cubase.

It gives you both options.

 

And I have taken it to buddy's houses and set in on the coffee table to record acoustic couch jams.

 

It's a pretty versatile little box.

 

The standalones free you from your computer. That's never a bad thing.

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I'll plus up the recording device idea. I spend all day in front of a variety of WinDoze and Eunuchs machines, so don't want to spend any time in front of them that I don't have to.

 

I use an old Tascam 2488, it's about 9 years now. It helps to keep you in the "recording" mindset, as opposed to the "computer troubleshooting" mindset, which is what I've been in all of the times I've been involved in computer based recording.

 

I will also add that there really isn't a cheap way to do it, once you get started. It's a hole that you pour money into but MAN it is fun!

 

Good luck!

 

rct

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I'll plus up the recording device idea. I spend all day in front of a variety of WinDoze and Eunuchs machines, so don't want to spend any time in front of them that I don't have to.

 

Rich, those words could have easily come from my fingers... Egggsactly!!!

 

everyone choose their own path - I always look for one with the sign on it that says "least resistance"

 

 

quapman: one of my friends has one of those Zoom units, once he got the hang of it, he gets pretty amazing results.

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I have an Akai 4 track into GarageBand

 

The Akai driver has had a lot of trouble when it was updated for Mac but looks like it is working now.

 

I took some free recording lessons at GC and I am ready to Kay down some ideas but the drums is what holds me back, I have loops but having to mold your riffs to a drum pattern sucks.

 

I'll get there one of these days.

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Apogee Quartet (Duet or ONE are fine too) - A/D converter.

Apple Pro Logic DAW($200).

Advanced Audio Microphone (studio quality at an affordable price)

Toontrack EZ Drummer 2. Unbelievable virtual drummer.

Toontack EZ Keys. Unbelievable virtual keys.

Fishman Aura preamp for acoutsic.

 

 

Pretty much it. I'm very happy with it.

 

Recorded this with it. https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/cant-get-over-you-single/id868863947

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My rather sophisticated setup on a budget for recording 28 tracks at a time in 16 bit/44.1 kHz in the rehearsal room is the following:

 

1 APC BE 700G back UPS

1 Apogee Big Ben master clock

2 Korg D3200 recorders

3 Behringer SRC 2496 stereo A/D-D/A-SR convertors

2 PreSonus D8 Digimax preamps - analog use only

2 ART S8 signal splitters

1 PreSonus HP60 headphones amp

2 Behringer DEQ 2496 - display use only

3 19" 6U road racks

2 IMG Stageline EMA400 external phantom power sources

2 BSS AR-133 DI boxes

18 Behringer C-2 cardioid mics (9 pairs)

1 Behringer B-5 mic, omnidirectional for recording bass drum over head

 

All the cables and mic stands are common and basic ones. However, due to their sheer number, they summed up to about EUR 1200 which is about 20% of the entire costs. I also have to add that I bought dedicated road cases for the recorders, too.

 

Overdub recording in 24 bit/44.1 kHz is possible after recalling the related recorder setups and just modifying the monitor routing a little. Only up to 8 of in total 173 connections must be altered.

 

Furthermore I also own and use one Korg D32XD and a third Korg D3200, again including road cases, and a handful more of the above listed and some other mics, for location recordings of various artists as well as for recording at home.

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Izzy seems to have it then. The Focusrite has been used by others and the drivers seem to work okay. And it is the drivers that are important, as in having ASIO drivers to record with.

However you may want to also look at Music Creator by Cakewalk (perhaps Sonar) as Music Creator may not handle all the tracks you think you may have, cut down version of Sonar.

You can check on the Cakewalk forum to see if it is anything you may want. I been using various Sonar software for a long time, but I do not use soft synths yet, although I think some are included with Music Creator which is only probably $50 or buy a Boss guitar effects pedal sort of thingy like a Boss ME 25 and maybe get a version of Sonar Lite with it for free.

 

Otherwise newer amps have headphones out which simulate the cabinet and can be used for recording.

Anything else and perhaps Gearslutz forum is a place to read about different things like in the Low Theory End part of the forum (which is what you are doing, not the High End which means thousands of dollars of type equipment).

Some say some DAWS (like Reaper or whatever) are easier to use than others perhaps, but it is what you get used to.

 

Actually recording audio is not that hard, as the Focusrite or whatever you buy takes the place of your soundcard that use to be in a computer (and you disable the in-built one Realtek as it sucks if necessary) and use that to listen to music through it and record music and all that stuff.

 

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/

 

Sure I bought a couple of channel strips (cheap ones) also but usually using just a guitar to plug in may not give you the gain that you need to make a better recording and other equipment may help. In a regular DAW such as Sonar, they include amp simulations and other things like compression and limiters also that can be used to mix down or add to the recording. I use the channel strips for that or the software (DAW which means Digital Audio Workstation).

 

What you need is a computer that actually works for audio recording or adding soft synths without too much latency (ASIO drivers for live recording like) and works without having a spike in the way the computer works, to make streaming of audio and or video work in the computer. Some computers do not work for that unless you can change the hardware around and turn it off it necessary like Wi-Fi is a big one that needs to be disabled probably when recording and working in audio.

 

http://www.thesycon....ncy_check.shtml

 

And of course on-line stores or GC or wherever you end up buying stuff from.

http://www.sweetwater.com/

 

just an example because there are other places like ZZSounds or something like that and Musicians Friend, but a search on the Internet and a lot of reading will get you there.

 

I am using Sonar older version (needs I guess to be upgraded but 7 still works) and I spent probably too much on the audio/interface and got a RME Babyface but costs way more.

 

It is a lot of work to do (and usually part of my time is taken up by other chores and things I have to do).

 

That depends on your lifestyle how much time you can spend on it, as well as getting it done good enough in the end.

 

Differences occur in equipment and newer stuff keeps coming out sometimes cheaper, sometimes more expensive.

 

Bad recordings I have not actually fixed yet as I was learning and things changing around where actually doing a video is too much work anymore to me.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/grumpalf

 

actually I took quite a few down because of either redoing them and making them better but videos I just do not want to do that much so all I got is a couple up after taking them down and putting them back up.

 

Too much other work to do right now, but if I get going again well then I will.

 

Babbled enough!

[biggrin]

 

So nothing I have done has been really up to great standards so far but live and learn I guess when visiting forums where any of it is talked about

 

And I spent too much time on this but did it for the heck if it after the other versions had been done by others about 5 years ago now.

 

https://soundcloud.com/spacealf/songthatneverwas-remix

 

All the other versions to go crazy with I guess!

 

 

which still has her vocals down there somewhere at the end of the different versions, still can be downloaded and done something with I guess if anyone wants to.

 

Just did a straight version instead of a strange version for the song.

[biggrin]

 

Too much work as I never fixed any of those videos actually yet, maybe someday, but at least done enough I guess.

 

Got to die from something, probably overworking in the end!

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I'll plus up the recording device idea. I spend all day in front of a variety of WinDoze and Eunuchs machines, so don't want to spend any time in front of them that I don't have to.

 

I use an old Tascam 2488, it's about 9 years now. It helps to keep you in the "recording" mindset, as opposed to the "computer troubleshooting" mindset, which is what I've been in all of the times I've been involved in computer based recording.

 

I will also add that there really isn't a cheap way to do it, once you get started. It's a hole that you pour money into but MAN it is fun!

 

Good luck!

 

rct

 

 

I go with this idea too - I have an old Fostex VF160EX that I use way more than the Steinberg interface and Cubase setup that I have. Easier to use and it has real buttons, sliders and knobs. If I need Cubase I can always dump the tracks from the Fostex and work on them on the computer.

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As an educated and experienced stage/studio guy I'll give you some advise, there is a lot more to recording then just gear. And, with out a good room and some training on how to track, over-dub, mix etc your likely going to have better results with a simple dedicated device and not trying to over produce things with stacks of gear (regardless of what it cost). There are lots of low-cost & even free-ware brands out there but that's still going to involve some training to use. Like some one has already stated the dedicated units are more or less idiot proof, I have a little Tascam DR2d pocket recorder that will make nice recordings if I place it in the proper spot in the room. It sound's a lot better when I use a professional external mic and use a mixer to buss it to the line input of it. An SM 57 or SM 58 works great in this method and a LDC or SDC is even better, but you still need to know something about mic-placement to make it all sound good. Mic placement is all about using your ears honestly to find the right spot in the room your source is located, some experimentation and reading is necessary if you don't know how and don't have properly treated rooms.

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As an educated and experienced stage/studio guy I'll give you some advise, there is a lot more to recording then just gear. And, with out a good room and some training on how to track, over-dub, mix etc your likely going to have better results with a simple dedicated device and not trying to over produce things with stacks of gear (regardless of what it cost). There are lots of low-cost & even free-ware brands out there but that's still going to involve some training to use. Like some one has already stated the dedicated units are more or less idiot proof, I have a little Tascam DR2d pocket recorder that will make nice recordings if I place it in the proper spot in the room. It sound's a lot better when I use a professional external mic and use a mixer to buss it to the line input of it. An SM 57 or SM 58 works great in this method and a LDC or SDC is even better, but you still need to know something about mic-placement to make it all sound good. Mic placement is all about using your ears honestly to find the right spot in the room your source is located, some experimentation and reading is necessary if you don't know how and don't have properly treated rooms.

 

Hello!

 

Thank You for pointing out to these very important aspects! My Dad - formerly an electro-technician, who used to build mixers and amps in His youth - said exactly the same things, and also showed me the importance of these points in practice. He has a professionally set up environment for listening to music, and definitely my guitar amps sound way better at His home, than at mine. However, He is not up to date with recording techniques, nor does He care much, since He is not a musician.

 

Fortunately enough, my employer has povided me access to an on-line training site (Lynda dot com), and gave me hours to spend on it from my working time. The company might need sound-editing skills in the near future. So, I can learn to use whichever product I choose.

 

Thank You... Bence

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Hello All!

 

Thank You very much for Your replies. You are very helpful, and I really appreciate taking Your time. :)

 

The information You gave me is huge. It will take some time to process all of it...

 

Probably, I'll go with the PC-based way first, and later on - depending on what kind of short-comings that solution will bring up - I will step up to stand-alone equipment.

 

Thank You again!

 

Best wishes... Bence

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I have a PC-based setup here.

 

Reaper and a 10+ year old M-Audio Delta66. I recently added a Zoom R24 - what a cool box!! The R24 is 4 things built into one. An 8x2 USB interface and control surface for Reaper, a 8 IN x 24 stand-alone recorder and a sampler. I can't say enough about how cool this interface is. If you don't care about the sampler function, there is an R16 model for less $.

 

An aging set of Event PS8 monitors and soon-to-be-replaced-cheapo MIDI keyboard round out the basic recording & mixing gear.

 

I stayed with Cakewalk DAW software for way too many versions before switching to Reaper. Reaper is outstanding.

 

Reaper has an uncrippled trial so you can make sure you want it before you pay:

http://www.cockos.com/reaper/

 

https://www.zoom-na....troller-sampler

 

https://www.zoom-na....face-controller

 

There is also an even smaller Zoom unit, the R8

https://www.zoom-na....troller-sampler

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Recording is like playing the guitar, you can strum away on three chords first then it starts from there.

 

You want an easy inexpensive system,so use Quebase which is a PC system cost about £100 you also need a mic and a stand say about another £100. So £200 total (300usd)

 

You can plug in your guitar and your mic play together or apart, add other tracks IE rhythm guitar, lead guitar maybe a solo. You can import drum tracks if you like or get it all organic and just record yourself. Then add another voice or two so you sound like the Beatles. After that you can add effects IE Chorus,reverb the sky's the limit. But start easy say just a guitar and voice, you will find that you sing better without playing at the same time.. First record together then add voice two then delete voice one just play around with it. If you do decide to go down this system let me know and I'll do all I can to help, good luck..

 

OH! yes I should say I've been recording now for three years and get a great deal of pleasure out of it.

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Well...

 

For what I do, solo guitar and/or voice, I run through my little AE amp, then line out to an inexpensive USB converter, then through (free) Audacity.

 

I s'pose I could add more but don't have a reason to.

 

Total cost beyond what I had anyway? Just the USB converter.

 

m

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Bence

 

If they want this at work you need to become a PC digital recording guy pretty quickly.

 

You need to get to know about a couple of good recording/DAW programs, VST instruments/software synths and you need a multitrack interface at least 4/4, probably USB, a good big hard drive or 2, plus you need to know about ASIO drivers and latency and of course amp modelling. Then there is mastering or....(gasp)...rendering. None of it is that hard but there a lot of little things to know about. Should take you about 6 months to tie it all together and make it rock.

 

But have to admit I still have old Tascam 38 1/2" and desk the size of a sofa......

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