flatbaroque Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 Gday guys. This is on our local Ebay. I may be interested if its really pre Norlin.But I don't know enough just by the photos.Some research indicates a trapeze on 1967 models...none on this one. Can anyone chime in with a diagnosis?..Is the headstock a clue? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VINTAGE-1967-GIBSON-B25-12-ACOUSTIC-GUITAR-/291154073180?pt=AU_Musical_Instruments_Instruments&hash=item43ca22965c
zombywoof Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 These are tough to date by features. I have seen '67 B25-12s (or at least guitars purported to have been made in 1967) with trapeze tailpieces and fixed bridges with small pickguards, large pointy oickguards, and no pickguards. With Gibson 12 string guitars though the magic date has nothing to do with Norlin but occurs much earlier - in late 1964. This is when Gibson went to a heavier top bracing as the earlier lightly braced guitars had a tendency to implode or twist themselves apart. Not saying Gibson 12 strings made from 1965 on are to be avoided like the plague especially considering those guitars made before '65 are not that easy to find but just something to consider.
flatbaroque Posted May 25, 2014 Author Posted May 25, 2014 Thanks Zomby I didn't know about that bracing change in 1964. Something to think about.These are probably play first purchases where possible.
capmaster Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 Thanks Zomby I didn't know about that bracing change in 1964. Something to think about.These are probably play first purchases where possible. Should be no problem since local pickup is the only offer for transportation.
fp Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 Save your money and pass on this one. It's later then a 67, I'd bet the farm on that. I may be wrong but I believe it is a Norlin era guitar.
flatbaroque Posted May 25, 2014 Author Posted May 25, 2014 Save your money and pass on this one. It's later then a 67, I'd bet the farm on that. I may be wrong but I believe it is a Norlin era guitar. I had suspicions. What is steering you towards a later model?
B1ues Boy Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 I think it could be a 67 it has that look of that time
bobouz Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 I highly doubt that this guitar is a '67. The belly down bridge (Martin orientation) was not common to Gibson's lineup until '68. Pegheads were black in '67, and I believe remained so until '69, or changed for sure a bit later. Same for the Martin style pickguard, which in '67 would still have been the batwing style. Also, the black rosette is a later style, as opposed to the predominately white ring seen in the mid 60s. The trimmings of this particular guitar would tend to to put it in the more undesirable category - but it could be a fine player.
zombywoof Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 I would expect a '67 would have a trapeze tailpiece and the large pointy pickguard. But while I am pretty good with figuring out the B45-12 I have spent very little time with the B25s. The guitar in question does look like it would date no earlier than 1968. Gibson also started making an LG-12 around that time but I am not sure what separates those from the B25-12s. If you had the serial number it would help but even then those can be somewhat confusing when it comes to dating as in the 1960s numbers roll over.
fp Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 Like Zombywoof said this could possibly be an LG 12 and not a B25. That was my first thought when I saw the pictures of it.
bobouz Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 Like Zombywoof said this could possibly be an LG 12 and not a B25. That was my first thought when I saw the pictures of it. Pulled out the Gruhn/Carter book this morning. It says the LG-12 was "introduced in '67, but does not appear on shipping totals until 1970. Non-adjustable saddle, teardrop pickguard > l970. Discontinued (2 shipped) > 1973." In the Gruhn descriptor for the first version of the LG-12, the bridge and pickguard do not match the OP's guitar - but the black rosette and lack of a peghead veneer do, as well as the single bound top, and unbound back (note that the B25 had a multi-bound top & single bound back). Therefore, with the key information above re the non-adjustable saddle & teardrop pickguard, everything seems to point to the guitar being a 1970 LG-12. From the ebay peghead picture, it appears to have a six digit serial number, with the first digit being an eight. As mentioned earlier, serial numbers jumped around in the late sixties, but this number sequence was used in 1969. Therefore, I think a reasonable guess would be that this guitar is a 1970 LG-12, but received it's serial number in late 1969.
fp Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 Pulled out the Gruhn/Carter book this morning. It says the LG-12 was "introduced in '67, but does not appear on shipping totals until 1970. Non-adjustable saddle, teardrop pickguard > l970. Discontinued (2 shipped) > 1973." In the Gruhn descriptor for the first version of the LG-12, the bridge and pickguard do not match the OP's guitar - but the black rosette and lack of a peghead veneer do, as well as the single bound top, and unbound back (note that the B25 had a multi-bound top & single bound back). Therefore, with the key information above re the non-adjustable saddle & teardrop pickguard, everything seems to point to the guitar being a 1970 LG-12. From the ebay peghead picture, it appears to have a six digit serial number, with the first digit being an eight. As mentioned earlier, serial numbers jumped around in the late sixties, but this number sequence was used in 1969. Therefore, I think a reasonable guess would be that this guitar is a 1970 LG-12, but received it's serial number in late 1969. Very good detective work !
flatbaroque Posted May 25, 2014 Author Posted May 25, 2014 Nice work all of ya! I did email the bloke and yea he's dated it as best he could from the serial number which is 88 something (i'm at work so i haven't got numbers handy). That website with the Gibson serial numbers does have the 88 series falling in 1967 in one of the tables.But as you've all said numbers are all over the place.If it doesn't sell on ebay i might contact him afterwards and go and play it and see what i think (only 30minutes drive)........not really a top priority at the moment. Cheers lads. edit...he's now added the serial number in his description..I'm sure he has described it as best he could...obviously it's not so easy.
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