Presence Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Hello Everyone! My first post. Great forum! (I've posted this same post on the www.EverythingSG.com forum a couple days ago. I hope the double forum posts are ok? I'd like to take advantage of the knowledge of both of these great forums!) http://www.everythingsg.com/forum/epiphone-sg/23575-alnico-classic-pro-pickup-magnets-a2-a5.html Does anyone know for sure if the new Epiphone G400 Pro Alnico Classic Pro pickups are alnico 2 or 5 magnets? I've been researching this for many days now and I'm getting conflicting info. In this YT video, published 4/17/14, Dr. Epiphone states that "they have Alnico 5 magnets" and "they are exactly, exactly the same as their Gibson sister counterpart which is the Gibson 57 Classic humbucker pickup. Which is the perfect humbucker on paper". But, I'm confused because Gibson 57 Classic Humbuckers have Alnico 2 magnets. Is Dr. Epiphone confused too? Can the Alnico Classic Pro pickups be both the exact copy of a Gibson 57 Classic and have Alnico 5 magnets? How is that possible? The Epiphone G400 Pro website says they are Alnico 5. http://www.epiphone.com/Products/SG/G-400-PRO.aspx But, these threads from this forum seem to say that they are Alnico 2 and that perhaps the Epiphone site is a misprint, unless they changed magnets recently. Post #14 in the first thread below has an official Epiphone pickup jpg graph that state that they are, like the Probuckers, Alnico 2 magnets: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/97294-what-is-alnico-classic-pickup-comparable-to/page__p__1367902#entry1367902 http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/108232-premier-guitar-reviews-the-epiphone-g-400-pro/ To confuse things for me even more, I originally ordered a Worn Brown G400 from Guitar Center and the Sales Rep said he just took an Epiphone clinic and he would really like to try out the Worn G400 model because it's the only Epi Sg model now that has Alnico 5 magnets in it's Alnico Classic pickups. I've since changed my order to a G400 Pro but didn't get to follow up with questions to that sales rep about the Epi clinic and the Alnico Classic Pro magnets. Thanks for any help with this. I've emailed Epiphone 2 days ago but haven't heard back. Is there any proof of a definitive answer to this question yet? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byrds1965 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Hello Everyone! Does anyone know for sure if the new Epiphone G400 Pro Alnico Classic Pro pickups are alnico 2 or 5 magnets? I've been researching this for many days now and I'm getting conflicting info. Alnico Classic = A5 I don't care what answer they give or stickers they put on them saying "57 classic" more along the lines of 490s Alnico Classic Pro = A2 wound and built close to 57 specs but not in tone Probucker = A2 wound and built close to burstbucker specs but not in tone either, Of them all I like the Probucker the best and sounds like a good PU with no need to change on my end anyway. Epiphone really confused things by giving them almost the same name. Epiphone also seems to have confused themselves and confuse their own specs due to the similar naming of them when writing guitar specs or giving answers. Search on the Duncan forum, look for poster "Kojack" he has taken the things apart and has posted photos and details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presence Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 Thanks byrds. I've been searching. It's username: LtKojak on the Seymour Duncan site just in case anyone else wants to try searching. I haven't found what I need yet regarding proof of the current Epiphone Alnico Classic Pro magnets... but still a lot of confusion out there - like this thread in it's last post stating that the new Alnico Classic Pro has Alnico 5 magnets. http://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/showthread.php?217849-What-Magnets-are-in-the-Epiphone-Alnico-Classics&highlight=Epiphone I've emailed Epiphone about this and string gauge setup again. We'll see if they ever get back to me to clear it up straight from the people that "should" know. It'd be nice if they can get their advertised details and facts correct. And give Dr. Epiphone the memo too so he doesn't keep spreading false info all over YT and the internet. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Marlowe Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 And give Dr. Epiphone the memo too so he doesn't keep spreading false info all over YT and the internet. Thanks again! I really don't dig his Schtick. I'm a "shut and play yer guitar" kind of guy. Also looking forward to getting the skinny on these magnets too. I like the way the Alnico Classics and Alnico Classic Pros sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presence Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 Well, like I said, I emailed Epiphone again this morning and they got right back to me this time! Looks like, according to official Gibson Customer Service, Dr. Epiphone is right and the Epiphone website is correct too - The Epiphone Alnico Classic Pro pickups have Alnico 5 magnets and the Epiphone G400 Pro ships with .010-.046 gauge strings. Below is the official email correspondence: From: Jay [mailto:webemail@gibson.com] Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 7:27 AM To: Customer Service Subject: Talk 2 Us : Country USA, Contact info: Jay Brand: Epiphone Message: Hi, What string gauge is my new Epiphone G400 Pro setup and shipped from the factory with? 9's or 10's? Also, what magnet type are in the Alnico Classic Pro pickups? I'm getting conflicting reports whether they're Alnico 2 or Alnico 5 magnets. Thanks! Jay Hello Jay, Thanks for writing. We use .010-.046 on these guitars, and your pickups use Alnico V magnets. Thank you for the inquiry. Best regards, Gibson Customer Service 1-800-4GIBSON www.gibson.com The Gibson Forums are provided for Gibson Fans to share opinions and information about all of the brands in the Gibson family. Become a Gibson Forums member today, visit http://forums.gibson.com/ Sign up now to receive the latest news from Gibson http://www.gibson.com/emailsignup.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presence Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 Which is still very confusing because the Alnico Classic Pro is, according to Dr. Epiphone, "the same exact pickup" as a Gibson 57 Classic. But, the magnets are different. Epiphone Alnico Classic Pro = Alnico 5 magnets Gibson 57 Classic = Alnico 2 magnets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byrds1965 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Which is still very confusing because the Alnico Classic Pro is, according to Dr. Epiphone, "the same exact pickup" as a Gibson 57 Classic and the Epiphone Probucker is supposed to be a Gibson Burstbucker. But, the magnets are the opposite in each of these copies. Epiphone Alnico Classic Pro = Alnico 5 magnets Gibson 57 Classic = Alnico 2 magnets Epiphone Probucker = Alnico 2 magnets Gibson Burstbucker = Alnico 5 magents Well not sure what is what then. When the Alnico Pro first came out the only difference was the even winding vs the uneven on them and the Probuckers they were both supposed to be A2s. Like you say: 57s are A2 Gibson Burstbuckers 1&2s are A2 Gibson Burstbucker Pros use the A5 I own guitars with all the PUs here. I have a 335 Pro too like some guys here and a Gibson 335 with 57s and find the Epiphone 335 Pro nothing in tone plugged in like the 57s at all. I played a bunch before I bought mine and everyone I played sounded the same plugged in. Mine I picked as it had nice figuring, built well and no finish flaws resonates unplugged well so if I do a PU upgrade when I decide what I want in there will sound good. To me they sound flat. The neck sounds nice but I am a middle or bridge PU player and on the bridge there are no dynamics at all very flat tone, clear but one dimensional. LtKojak on the Duncan forum took them apart and the pole side being even wound on the bridge PU with the opposite might be the issue. If some guys like them great. I have the same opinion LtKojak does though not real dynamic when you compare them to the real deal. The Probuckers are a different story. They have the dynamics and punch, clarity etc. They do not sound like the real Burstbuckers they copy but they are a good PU and I have no desire to change them. To me the Probucker sounds more like a brighter Gibson 57 and that is a good thing. They do not have the bite of real Burstbuckers. I have both Burstbuckers 1&2 in a SG and the Probuckers in that Pelham blue SG Custom so similar guitars to compare them in too. I do not have to roll the treble back on the Epiphone like I do on the Gibson as real Burstbuckers have a very strong treble bite that can almost be too much. Curious I also bought the 355 in Pelham and that is a 2013 expecting to swap the PUs as I do not like the Alnico Classics. This guitar has the best version of that PU I have ever heard and wonder if Epiphone is now using the same parts to wind all the stuff, they still use the brass bottom plate on the Alnico Classic though. They do sound now like 490s. I was shocked when I played it. No mud so congrats to Epiphone for finally fixing the Alnico Classic now too. If according to Epiphone the Alnico Classic Pro and Alnico Classic are both A5 then I like the new Alnico Classics as installed in the 355 better that the Alnico Classic Pros more dynamics. Long post sorry, regardless of what Dr Epiphone says the Alnico Classic Pro is nothing like a 57 if they really changed the specs from the early days from A2 to A5 that is wrong and sorry they sound nothing at all like real 57s. Fine I guess for what they are but no how, no way are they identical in tone to real 57s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crust Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Well not sure what is what then. When the Alnico Pro first came out the only difference was the even winding vs the uneven on them and the Probuckers they were both supposed to be A2s. Like you say: 57s are A2 Gibson Burstbuckers 1&2s are A2 Gibson Burstbucker Pros use the A5 I own guitars with all the PUs here. I have a 335 Pro too like some guys here and a Gibson 335 with 57s and find the Epiphone 335 Pro nothing in tone plugged in like the 57s at all. I played a bunch before I bought mine and everyone I played sounded the same plugged in. Mine I picked as it had nice figuring, built well and no finish flaws resonates unplugged well so if I do a PU upgrade when I decide what I want in there will sound good. To me they sound flat. The neck sounds nice but I am a middle or bridge PU player and on the bridge there are no dynamics at all very flat tone, clear but one dimensional. LtKojak on the Duncan forum took them apart and the pole side being even wound on the bridge PU with the opposite might be the issue. If some guys like them great. I have the same opinion LtKojak does though not real dynamic when you compare them to the real deal. The Probuckers are a different story. They have the dynamics and punch, clarity etc. They do not sound like the real Burstbuckers they copy but they are a good PU and I have no desire to change them. To me the Probucker sounds more like a brighter Gibson 57 and that is a good thing. They do not have the bite of real Burstbuckers. I have both Burstbuckers 1&2 in a SG and the Probuckers in that Pelham blue SG Custom so similar guitars to compare them in too. I do not have to roll the treble back on the Epiphone like I do on the Gibson as real Burstbuckers have a very strong treble bite that can almost be too much. Curious I also bought the 355 in Pelham and that is a 2013 expecting to swap the PUs as I do not like the Alnico Classics. This guitar has the best version of that PU I have ever heard and wonder if Epiphone is now using the same parts to wind all the stuff, they still use the brass bottom plate on the Alnico Classic though. They do sound now like 490s. I was shocked when I played it. No mud so congrats to Epiphone for finally fixing the Alnico Classic now too. If according to Epiphone the Alnico Classic Pro and Alnico Classic are both A5 then I like the new Alnico Classics as installed in the 355 better that the Alnico Classic Pros more dynamics. Long post sorry, regardless of what Dr Epiphone says the Alnico Classic Pro is nothing like a 57 if they really changed the specs from the early days from A2 to A5 that is wrong and sorry they sound nothing at all like real 57s. Fine I guess for what they are but no how, no way are they identical in tone to real 57s. So, I take it you like the pickups in the 355 now and have left them in place. I have a few questions. What didn't you like about the old , pre fixed" Alnico Classic pickups, and what were you intending to replace the pickups with ? What is the difference between Alnico Classic, and Alnico Classic Pro's ? Too many names, like different guitar models of the same guitar, makes me confused...lol I really dig my Blue Epiphone ES-355, as I do all my Epiphone guitars, but this thing is built like a tank, looks and sounds perfect, to me. I don't intend to ever change anything on it, but I do enjoy your posts about the upgrades you did to yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presence Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 Thanks byrds, I edited my post (#6) about the Probuckers and Burstbucker magnet types because I didn't want to spread more wrong info to add to the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byrds1965 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 So, I take it you like the pickups in the 355 now and have left them in place. I have a few questions. What didn't you like about the old , pre fixed" Alnico Classic pickups, and what were you intending to replace the pickups with ? What is the difference between Alnico Classic, and Alnico Classic Pro's ? Too many names, like different guitar models of the same guitar, makes me confused...lol I really dig my Blue Epiphone ES-355, as I do all my Epiphone guitars, but this thing is built like a tank, looks and sounds perfect, to me. I don't intend to ever change anything on it, but I do enjoy your posts about the upgrades you did to yours. Crust I have not changed anything on the mentioned guitars. My comparison guitars here so I can give good AB comparison: I have the 335 pro in Cherry and a Gibson 335 plain top with 57s I have a Gibson 60s tribute SG with Burstbucker 1&2 and have the Epiphone SG Custom in Pelham blue with Probuckers I have a Lucille with the old Alnico Classics I have the 355 in Pelham blue with Alnico Classics The PUs in the 355 sound nothing like the Alnico Classics in Lucille. On the first string change pulled the PUs to look and still have the brass base plates but sound nothing like Alnico Classic of old = mud flat no dynamics. From a manufacturing point thinking maybe Epiphone making all PUs with same wire and bobbins now to help with inventory hence the improvement or maybe just got lucky. Though you say you like yours too. I have not looked into PUs for the 335 Pro yet but if I find on ebay a cheap set of Probuckers might grab them and should be easy to just plug right in I hope. Have not looked into it yet. The 355 I bought liking the guitar and have a set of 57s here I pulled from another Epiphone before I sold it off back to stock and was planning on putting them in there. When it showed up sounds good not like my 335 with 57s but so much better than Lucille and my 335 Pro just leaving it as is. The 355 PUs sound like A5s with less mids and stronger lows and highs I have a set of Gold Probuckers I found on ebay cheap and as soon as I get the chance are going into Lucille. Thought about throwing the spare set of 57s into the 335 Pro but bought the guitar knowing it does the split coil deal and my 57s are just 2 wire so would have to swap the pots etc not a project I want to get into as I have plenty of good guitars. Want to keep that option on that guitar so not a huge rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byrds1965 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Professional Electronics. The Les Paul Traditional Pro uses Epiphone's 4-wire, nickel/silver base humbuckers with newly tooled, USA-style bobbins. In the neck position is the Alnico Classic Pro humbucker with Alnico-II warm, thick vintage tone and open zebra coils. It's uniquely paired with Epiphone's ProBucker-3 humbucker. An inspired by version of Gibson's BurstBucker-3, the Les Paul guitar features unevenly wound coils and Alnico-II magnets that replicate that "Patent Applied for" airy tone. You'll love the way they sound! To top it all off, both volume controls feature push/pull potentiometers allowing you to coil-split each pickup for single-coil sounds. Combined with the 3-way toggle, you get 6 unique sounds from one great Les Paul guitar. Those were the specs when the Les Paul Trad Pro came out from Epiphone and the first guitar they offered with both the new Probucker and Alnico Classic Pro. Both were listed at A2 then. So Epiphone can't even keep straight what they have going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Marlowe Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I wonder if the circuitry / wiring / components etc in the Lucille are what make the pickups sound poorly to you Bryd. I wonder what it might sound like if you did a test where you wired the bridge straight to the output jack. Lucille's have a back panel right, so it wouldn't be all that hard. Just a thought to eliminate other possibilities or if it really is the pickups you dislike in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaZie Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Some time ago I saw "2010 Epiphone Pickup Chart" which stated as following: Alnico Classic: Alnico V magnet, 8.5 kOhm (neck), 13.5 kOhm (bridge) Alnico Classic Pro: Alnico II magnet, 8.15 kOhm (I think neck) Probucker-3: Alnico II magnet, 9 kOhm (bridge) There is however a little difference between DCR given above and the real measurements of the pickups I have. I have no idea how to determine what magnet type they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byrds1965 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I wonder if the circuitry / wiring / components etc in the Lucille are what make the pickups sound poorly to you Bryd. I wonder what it might sound like if you did a test where you wired the bridge straight to the output jack. Lucille's have a back panel right, so it wouldn't be all that hard. Just a thought to eliminate other possibilities or if it really is the pickups you dislike in it. Right the tone on the Epiphone Lucille goes through the Varitone circuit and choke on the their version too so some tone is rolled off. I have owned MANY Epiphones (Dots, G400s LPs all are gone now save Lucille) so know what the Alnico Classic of old sounds like = not good. The ones in the 355 I just bought last year sound good and I was shocked. I bought the guitar planning on putting in a spare set of Gibson 57s I took out of one of those above listed Epiphone's I put back to stock before selling. The PUs in the 355 sound good enough for me to leave in and just play as is. Lucille's Alnico Classics sound like all the rest of the guitars I have gotten rid of, and am going to change them to a gold set of Probuckers. You are right it has the back panel so will be easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byrds1965 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Some time ago I saw "2010 Epiphone Pickup Chart" which stated as following: Alnico Classic: Alnico V magnet, 8.5 kOhm (neck), 13.5 kOhm (bridge) Alnico Classic Pro: Alnico II magnet, 8.15 kOhm (I think neck) Probucker-3: Alnico II magnet, 9 kOhm (bridge) There is however a little difference between DCR given above and the real measurements of the pickups I have. I have no idea how to determine what magnet type they have. Those are the same specs that were posted back when the Les Paul Traditional Pro came out as that guitar had one of each. Alnico Classic Pro and Probucker. Check the Duncan forum as LtKojak has taken the Alnico Classic Pros apart and has all the info on the Neck and Bridge Ohm measurements, photos, details etc. I own guitars Gibsons/Epiphones with Alnico 2 and Alnico 5 The Alnico Classic Pro to me in my 335Pro sound like 2's to me, mids are there and highs and lows not as strong like in 498 or Alnico Classic of old or the new 355 I have. If you guys like the Alnico Classic Pros great. I do not care for them, bridge PU anyway. The neck sounds ok but I don't use that on its own. I remember posting this same comment years back when the 339 first came out. My buddy got the first run 339 and still owns Before all this confusion of Epiphone changing the name to 339Pro and PUs to Alnico Classic Pros. His has the Probuckers, we checked years ago on a string change. I liked his so much I went to buy my own and everyone I played I thought the same thing to the point we brought his guitar in to AB at Sam Ash. I did not buy a 339Pro. I did buy a 335Pro knowing what PUs. The GC I was in buying strings had the thing on a manager special for stupid cheap because it was old inventory. It looks great, sounds good unplugged and will upgrade the PUs down the road and have a 335 in cherry like my cherry Gibson 335 but does split coil and will take to band practice and leave there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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