Why are Classics and Trads cheaper than Standards?

[nick_s]

I wouldn't mind betting there is a specification difference of sorts, some maybe obvious, some not so much. Perhaps there is 10-20% less coats of nitro on the classic, green inlays may have been cheaper, wood grades below that which would qualify for the 'Standard', that sort of thing.

 

I'm not 100% au feit with the Classic spec, might just go check it out if I can find it.

[capmaster]

Here's my classic before the mods. It has a "special" flamed maple laminate top so I think it is da bomb. It is by far the best playing guitar for my smallish hands that I have ever laid my smallish hands on. Pick up selector is on the bridge pickup. I should just glue it there.

Laminate top? What exactly do you mean with the term laminate? To my knowledge, all the Gibson tops are massive, so this one should be, too.

[BobF_]

Here's my classic before the mods. It has a "special" flamed maple laminate top so I think it is da bomb. It is by far the best playing guitar for my smallish hands that I have ever laid my smallish hands on. Pick up selector is on the bridge pickup. I should just glue it there.

 

 

Purdy! I don't know about the switch, but knobs are pointless decorations on an LP, IMO - LOL!

[Tman]

Laminate top? What exactly do you mean with the term laminate? To my knowledge, all the Gibson tops are massive, so this one should be, too.

 

My understanding is that the body being mahogany will have a thinnish layer or another wood which is the laminate top. So laminate is covering.

This one was called (at lest to me) an top grade flamed maple laminate top. It's a 1995 and sat at Apple music in Portland until 09 when I bought it for $2900. More expensive than most classics because the laminate was premium. That's how it was sold to me but actually, it was sold to me because once I picked it up, I couldn't put it down!

 

Here's from the Warmoth site:

 

How It Is Done - The "Book-Matched Top"

Most laminate tops are done in "bookmatch" fashion. This is accomplished by first sawing a plank lengthwise. The resulting halves are opened like a book and glued in the center. This yields a symmetrical pattern along the body centerline. Occasionally laminate tops are created with a single piece of wood, but it is rare.

 

Laminate Cut 1

Sawn lengthwise

 

Laminate Cut 2

Opened like a book

 

Laminate Cut 3

Pattern is symmetrical

[Drog]

Standards have "AAA" tops and MinE-tune, or "AAAA", on the plus and "AAA" quilt top on premium and locking tuners. That would be the bulk of the upcharge. I really would love to see a "AAA" top on a traditional along with a 60's style neck.

[Rabs]

Here's my classic before the mods. It has a "special" flamed maple laminate top so I think it is da bomb. It is by far the best playing guitar for my smallish hands that I have ever laid my smallish hands on. Pick up selector is on the bridge pickup. I should just glue it there.

 

That's a Les Paul Classic plus

 

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/Les-Paul-Classic-Plus.aspx#

 

And yes a veneer can be anything from about 6 mm to 0.6mm... and are used to pretty the tops up (and add a bright snap to the sound (on the thick ones anyway :))

[Guest Farnsbarns]

That's a Les Paul Classic plus

 

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/Les-Paul-Classic-Plus.aspx#

 

And yes a veneer can be anything from about 6 mm to 0.6mm... and are used to pretty the tops up (and add a bright snap to the sound (on the thick ones anyway :))

 

But the maple cap is 15mm thick. I personally wouldn't call it laminated any more than I'd call a table laminated because the legs are glued on. Semantics though, of course.

[Rabs]

But the maple cap is 15mm thick. I personally wouldn't call it laminated any more than I'd call a table laminated because the legs are glued on. Semantics though, of course.

Yeah actually if you include the hump in the carve it probably is that big, but at the edges at least its about 6mm...

 

But yes I also prefer the word cap, but that's a guitar word.. I know in the building trade they have thick veneers...

[LPguitarman]

I actually think the word "Standard" is reason enough for Gibson to sell it for more. Afterall isn't "Standard" the "Holy Grail of Les Pauls" that every famous guitarist and their brother made famous.

 

Myself, I have a Classic Antique which I think is better than a Standard because it has binding all around the Headstock, a nice flamed top and '57 Classic & '57 Classic Plus pups, Pearl White Inlays (not green). Not to mention the Slim Tapered '60's neck profile which fits my hands perfectly.

 

Blury picture, but you get my point...

[Sailjunkie]

I actually think the word "Standard" is reason enough for Gibson to sell it for more. Afterall isn't "Standard" the "Holy Grail of Les Pauls" that every famous guitarist and their brother made famous.

 

Myself, I have a Classic Antique which I think is better than a Standard because it has binding all around the Headstock, a nice flamed top and '57 Classic & '57 Classic Plus pups, Pearl White Inlays (not green). Not to mention the Slim Tapered '60's neck profile which fits my hands perfectly.

 

Blury picture, but you get my point...

Thought I read somewhere that the Traditional was specially made for GC and Musicians Friend.

[AndyK]

I actually think the word "Standard" is reason enough for Gibson to sell it for more. Afterall isn't "Standard" the "Holy Grail of Les Pauls" that every famous guitarist and their brother made famous.

 

Myself, I have a Classic Antique which I think is better than a Standard because it has binding all around the Headstock, a nice flamed top and '57 Classic & '57 Classic Plus pups, Pearl White Inlays (not green). Not to mention the Slim Tapered '60's neck profile which fits my hands perfectly.

 

Blury picture, but you get my point...

 

Nice! Not heard of Classic Antique before. Beautiful guitar.

[Tman]

That's a Les Paul Classic plus

 

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/Les-Paul-Classic-Plus.aspx#

 

And yes a veneer can be anything from about 6 mm to 0.6mm... and are used to pretty the tops up (and add a bright snap to the sound (on the thick ones anyway :))

 

Cool, thanks for that, I didn't know it was a LP Classic plus. Mine is/was a 95 so maybe an early one?

[LPguitarman]

Nice! Not heard of Classic Antique before. Beautiful guitar.

Thanks, Classic Antique was one of Gibson's previous models now discontinued. The one I have is from the Guitar of the Week models. A special 400 quantity make Reverse Fireburst.

[Tman]

Thanks, Classic Antique was one of Gibson's previous models now discontinued. The one I have is from the Guitar of the Week models. A special 400 quantity make Reverse Fireburst.

 

I went through a zebra wood fanatic phase and had the zebra wood GOW version. Honestly it had a few problems and I sold it. It felt cheaper somehow but it may have been the satin type finish rather than the higher quality feel (to me) of the nitro finish. Pleas correct me if I'm wrong about some of the technical details.

 

The 95 classic plus that I have now, even though modified, is much better built in my opinion.

 

This was it:

[Karloff]

got my '07 Classic used for $950. put Pearly gates pickups in it. great guitar.

[LPguitarman]

I went through a zebra wood fanatic phase and had the zebra wood GOW version. Honestly it had a few problems and I sold it. It felt cheaper somehow but it may have been the satin type finish rather than the higher quality feel (to me) of the nitro finish. Pleas correct me if I'm wrong about some of the technical details.

 

The 95 classic plus that I have now, even though modified, is much better built in my opinion.

 

This was it:

That Zebra Wood looks great. Too bad it didn't pan out for you. I remember when you posted it as a NGD.

[Tman]

That Zebra Wood looks great. Too bad it didn't pan out for you. I remember when you posted it as a NGD.

 

 

It did look great. I just couldn't justify 2 LP classics. The 95 played so well that I kept it and sold this one when a guy made the offer. Not that I won't consider getting another LP. I just know it has to have a 60's slim tapered neck as an absolute requisite. I didn't care so much for the satin finish feel on the zebra's neck.

[pippy]

Couple of points;

 

When the '1960 Classic' was introduced to the range it was around 40% more expensive than the Standard.

Gibson had been issuing what are now known as 'Pre-Historic' 1959 style guitars for a few years and the 'Classic' shared many of these guitars' qualities - hence the high price.

When the R9 'proper' came out in '93 the '1960 Classic' was still priced around half-way between the price of the Standard and the price of the Re-Issue.

It was only much later that it became the 'poor relation' as it was downgraded in terms of appointments used - especially once the 1960 R-I was added to the range.

Some say this was to prevent unscrupulous dealers passing off the 'Classic' as a 1960 R-I proper.

Even now a scan through the 'bay you'll find '1960 Classic Re-Issue" on offer by the score despite these never having been sold as R-I's.

 

The maple cap isn't a veneer.

A veneer is a thin sheet of wood of constant thickness which is applied to enhance a core material. It's nature is superficial and it's function is to beautify.

The maple cap on a carved-top Standard (etc) is, as has been said, a solid half-inch thick slab of wood which is then carved away towards the edges to form the top-carve.

It also had a specific tonal function which was to modify the sound of the mahogany body. That this slab is much narrower at the edges doesn't make it a veneer.

 

P.

[Rabs]

Couple of points;

 

When the '1960 Classic' was introduced to the range it was around 40% more expensive than the Standard.

Gibson had been issuing what are now known as 'Pre-Historic' 1959 style guitars for a few years and the 'Classic' shared many of these guitars' qualities - hence the high price.

When the R9 'proper' came out in '93 the '1960 Classic' was still priced around half-way between the price of the Standard and the price of the Re-Issue.

It was only much later that it became the 'poor relation' as it was downgraded in terms of appointments used - especially once the 1960 R-I was added to the range.

Some say this was to prevent unscrupulous dealers passing off the 'Classic' as a 1960 R-I proper.

Even now a scan through the 'bay you'll find '1960 Classic Re-Issue" on offer by the score despite these never having been sold as R-I's.

 

The maple cap isn't a veneer.

A veneer is a thin sheet of wood of constant thickness which is applied to enhance a core material. It's nature is superficial and it's function is to beautify.

The maple cap on a carved-top Standard (etc) is, as has been said, a solid half-inch thick slab of wood which is then carved away towards the edges to form the top-carve.

It also had a specific tonal function which was to modify the sound of the mahogany body. That this slab is much narrower at the edges doesn't make it a veneer.

 

P.

Did the Classics always have the super hot pickups?

 

Cos that's more of an 80s thing isn't it?

[LPguitarman]

My 1999 had same as yours 500t 496r I took mine out and put in 57 Classic and Classic Plus

Nice choice of Pick-ups. Exactly what I have in my Classic Antique.

[pippy]

Did the Classics always have the super hot pickups?...Cos that's more of an 80s thing isn't it?

Correct on both counts, Rabs.

 

In the late '80s players were asking Gibson to make a guitar with many of the features from the '59 Pre-Historics but incorporating the '80s fascination with very hot p'ups and a very slim neck and the result, the '1960 Classic', was released in 1989.

 

The earliest 1960 Classics had wand-thin Ibanez-shred-machine style neck profiles but these seem to have been 'beefed-up' by the early-mid '90s.

My '91 has a neck so slim that tuning-up is a right PITA. The neck bows with each turn of any tuning peg and it has to be a gradual process.

By contrast my '95 '1960 Classic' has the same neck profile as my R0 - almost down to three decimal places.

 

I've left the original ceramics in my '91 as it gives me something with which I can go all 'La Grange' when the mood suits.

 

P.

[Rabs]

Correct on both counts, Rabs.

 

In the late '80s players were asking Gibson to make a guitar with many of the features from the '59 Pre-Historics but incorporating the '80s fascination with very hot p'ups and a very slim neck and the result, the '1960 Classic', was released in 1989.

 

The earliest 1960 Classics had wand-thin Ibanez-shred-machine style neck profiles but these seem to have been 'beefed-up' by the early-mid '90s.

My '91 has a neck so slim that tuning-up is a right PITA. The neck bows with each turn of any tuning peg and it has to be a gradual process.

By contrast my '95 '1960 Classic' has the same neck profile as my R0 - almost down to three decimal places.

 

I've left the original ceramics in my '91 as it gives me something with which I can go all 'La Grange' when the mood suits.

 

P.

Always as informative as ever sir.... (I probably heard that from you in the first place :) )

 

And yeah I like my Classic in every way and am one of the few who like the power of those pups.. But when I got this I had Slash in mind and really I don't think I could have picked a better model, even if I did know what I was doing which at the time I had no idea.. I literally played it in the first shop I went too and knew it was what I wanted and that's as far as my search went... :)

 

And im so happy I got one when I did. :)

[Tman]

Pippy one "L", please consider writing a book on the history of the Les Paul Guitar. I'll be first in line to get it. (if you haven't already written one and thus your expertise).

 

You taught me about the hot pickups (which I still have by the way) being the hottest Gibson makes. I like the burst buckers so much more personally but I do remember when I had them in my classic, It would sustain until tomorrow with an overdriven amp.

[pippy]

Hah!

 

Nah. I'm just 'distilling' loads of stuff I've read / heard and, partly, learned for myself over the last 30 years.

All the former stuff is already 'out there' and the longer I post here the more the latter becomes available too.....lol!

 

And, FWIW Rabs and Two Ells; I kept the ceramics in the '91 because I REALLY liked the hooligan nature of the thing ("Incendiary Devices", Tman!) but also because I had the '57s in the R0. I'm not sure I could have lived with the ceramics without my 'Peter Green-esque Quiet Corner' as it were.....

 

p.