troysgguy Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 So I don't usually see a lot about playing on this forum. I assume most everyone is fairly seasoned. I have been playing and taking lessons for about 3 years. I have greatly improved, but seem to be having problems with speed. On the technical side I can play solos like enter sandman or crazy train, but just can't get certain parts up to speed. I have read about metronome, exercises etc.. I have doing been doing exercise, hammer on pull offs, etc.. Usually 10 minutes pretty much every day. Sometimes longer. Do I need more time? I am 42, I don't think I am too old to build speed? What have you all experienced? Thanks much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 hi, you would probably get more response to a question like this in the sub form named: Lessons, Playing Tips and Tunings (just scroll down on the main page it's in the section a ways below the SG/LES paul forums - which are mainly used for talking about the physical guitar brand) but to your question re: building up speed, What you are really looking for is to develop the acute muscle memory to pull off those licks. It takes time, the faster and more involved the entire solo is, the more time it will take. IMO, it's really not a matter of just nailing the major patterns or licks you are trying to master, it's the entire body of the solo that has to be smooth and flow and "feel" right. so that when you get to those uber fast parts, you have to go into them seamlessly. If it is your desire to "note for note" these, then just be ready to spend the time "owning" them. this is why most of us, will get in the ball park, and make the solo fit within the confines of the original, but tailored to what our particular styles have developed too. (we all have our own "voice" right?) This is just my personal experience, for the time I've been at this (47+ years). There are only a very few times that I've sat down and done a total note for note copy of a lead track. For me to spend that much time on a cover there HAS to be a good reason to do that. (like, no other collection of notes will do.. I guess for an example, Stairway To Heaven could be onse such solo.) For the majority of the covers you will play, no one but you and maybe one other person in the room will know that you "did your own thing" at a specific part of the solo. Keep in mind that people will be more apt to notice something that doesn't sound natural, (eg: you are trying to NAIL a particular solo, and, well ya just didn't quite get there) This will be far more obvious than the player that is really feeling it, and letting it go, but in the "ball park" of what the original solo was. If you listen to a lot of the great players.. THEY don't even do their solos like the did them on the studio albums! just my 2 cents... Best, /Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troysgguy Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 Ray, Thank you so much for the information. This is very helpful. I spend too much time on the technical end and not enough on the musicality. I get it. Now to put that to use. thanks much, Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 as you go along on your journey, you'll find that you do have your own style, and it will always be in motion,, (a combination of your own approach, and everything that you stole from your all heroes!) :) it's just a matter of finding the balancing point between two ideologies of playing it like someone else does, or playing it totally like you want to. it's like making a great Marinara sauce,, everyone has their own ingredients, but a good chef, is gonna make a killer Marinara sauce.. (suddenly I'm hungry for Italian..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Along the "note for note" thing...most of the really good players, I've seen, from Clapton, Hendrix, Jeff Beck, on...have never played their solo parts exactly like the records! Often, NOTHING like the records. They play, what they "feel" at the time. Just as they did, when it was recorded. The only difference is, WE get hung up, on that particular recorded solo, instead of the other possibilities, that they often explore, and play, "Live." Even that changes, gig to gig, quite often. So...??? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troysgguy Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 Thanks again guys, I really appreciate the words of wisdom. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 What you are really looking for is to develop the acute muscle memory.... This is the only (partial) post that remotely addresses the original question, so let me expand upon this. Muscle memory is developed by repetitive practice. The way to turn that into speed is by taking the line and mastering it at a slower speed (as slow as you want, or need to). This not only includes the notes, but also the timing. Once you are comfortable with the fingering AND timing, continue the repetitions while slightly increasing the tempo faster and faster as you go. Do not stop and start the phrase, continue looping it over, and over, and over, and over, and over, in TIME, while increasing TEMPO. This is the way orchestras (jazz or symphonic) rehearse fast passages that may even contain 4 or 5 harmonizing lines. If your goal to to play fast improvised lines, the same procedure can work by practicing scales and arpeggios. This is not necessarily an afternoons project, it may take hours, days, or even weeks (or months). I AM NOT a speed player, but there are some pretty fast written lines I am required to play (solo, or with other instruments) in the arrangements we do in the jazz orchestra, and I have to stretch my speed capabilities fairly often. I found out long ago that as speedy playing goes, my right hand is MY limiting factor, so I can tell you from first hand experience, there WILL be a point where you will reach the maximum speed of your individual physical (and mental) capabilities, and there is nothing that can change that. Whether or not a metronome will help in this practice procedure is up to the individual. I personally find metronomes very annoying to practice to, and as the bands I play in mostly play the same charts that were being played on the commercial recordings, I have the recordings to play along with when I think I've gotten myself up to speed. Which brings me to the great line, "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?"......PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 This is the only (partial) post that remotely addresses the original question Which brings me to the great line, "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?"......PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE Sidetracked, US???!! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troysgguy Posted June 11, 2014 Author Share Posted June 11, 2014 Larry, I appreciate you addressing the direct question. I actually read an article on how to get to Carnegie Hall, but don't think it addressed speed. Easy to get confused when you start looking at all the different methods on youtube and internet articles. It is great to be able to get information from so many seasoned players. thanks all, Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 The good old scales... Diatonic, pentatonic modes...slowly at first, watching correct fretting and picking attack. Both clean (to improve intonation of fretted notes), and distorted (to learn muting). When You are confident, increase the speed, but always spend time on - no matter how good You became - playing slow. That helps fretting/picking-hand synchronization. Also, when You know all those box-patterns, memorize their relation to each other, within the same key. Then connect them horizontally, as well. That expands Your means of improvization and phrasing ability. When You master this, You can easily play along with anything, just by knowing the key of the song. Good luck! Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Zeppelin Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Ray is right on the money Larry. So is CB and Bence. Very few artists will do their solos note for note. I've rarely learned note for note solos. As mentioned above Stairway is one. I find them cumbersome, boring, and full of transition notes. That's why the original artist changes it up, he's bored with it. In my experience (38 yrs) learn your scales for a foundation for soloing then just get in the ball park or the get flavor down and do your own thing. No one will know and you'll have more fun because you're not stuck doing the same thing night after night. You'll need to master the signature licks in a song but everything in between is up for grabs. Plus there will be times when you need to stretch that song out a little more, one more time around the block, and that's when your ability to improvise, because you've learned your scales so well, will let you shine! Scales, repetition for muscle memory, improvisation, learning standard licks, and the most important item is practice practice practice every chance you get! Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Just one more indication, of how "ensconced" some tend to get, with a "recorded" solo...I once saw EC at a concert in L.A., and he did a KILLER version of "Crossroads," with a blistering, tasteful, (wonderful, really) solo, and after it was over, a kid near me, said: "F'n Clapton's lost it, that sounded nothing like the "Wheels of Fire," version, and especially the solo...it SUCKED!" LOL The rest of us, were just shaking our heads, and NOT in agreement, either! I now return you, to your "Building Speed" topic/channel. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Zeppelin Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Just one more indication, of how "ensconced" some tend to get, with a "recorded" solo...I once saw EC at a concert in L.A., and he did a KILLER version of "Crossroads," with a blistering, tasteful, (wonderful, really) solo, and after it was over, a kid near me, said: "F'n Clapton's lost it, that sounded nothing like the "Wheels of Fire," version, and especially the solo...it SUCKED!" LOL The rest of us, were just shaking our heads, and NOT in agreement, either! I now return you, to your "Building Speed" topic/channel. CB I saw an interview with Clapton years ago and he said he wasn't particularly fond of the recorded version's solo. Thought he could do much better. While I don't think it's bad I do think he can do better. I knew someone who could play it note for note. When I told him what Clapton had said it kinda burst his bubble a little bit. It's just blues man! Do your own thing! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Well, it's a great solo, IMHO, and certainly one that a LOT of people love, and have copied, bits, or even the entire thing. But, yeah, he's done many versions, that are as good, or better, over the years. You're right, he's said, many times, that he felt like they were all "lost," and just wailing away, that evening. But, managed to come back together, at some point, to arrive at the end, at the same time! I'd love to be that "Lost," sometimes! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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