milod Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Just a thought to add here... If anything I think one might question Gibson's choice of woods and/or their aging on these instruments. Then again, even in North America we're talking about huge climate variations that are far from identical to Nash-Mem or Montana. It sounds to me from reading the above that folks are willing to accept that woods will shrink a bit - but not that aged/dried wood might swell sufficiently to give a bit of differentiation where it meets another type of wood or non-wood product. One might note that the advantages of a guitar made of composites or current laminates tend to be downplayed by those who demand other characteristics that bypass the sort of stability of composites and laminates. I'll wager that each of the instruments in question was right on with specifications when it left the factory. Then what? m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EastEnder Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Well, I'm sure wood condition, travel and handling, have some effect, to varying degrees. But, this problem doesn't seem to be that, so much. More like a factory QC problem, or defect, as described. Photos, would help, obviously. I'm not bashing Gibson, generally, any more than overall quality of most goods, these days. In fact, they get it absolutely right, more often than not...if my last few quitar purchases are any indication. My LP Classic Custom (Gold Top) and ALL my recent SG purchases were all beautiful/"flawless!" It's just so odd, to me, that 4-5 Silverburst LP Customs, in a row, would all have the same problem, in the same area, if to varying degrees. "Not Logical, Captain!" CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quapman Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Call me crazy but for 4 G's I expect a high level of quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levism Posted June 30, 2014 Author Share Posted June 30, 2014 Ok guys. First thing is the binding gap at the cutaway. It's difficult to get what I am trying to show you but this is one of the spots that stands out the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EastEnder Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levism Posted June 30, 2014 Author Share Posted June 30, 2014 This is the best I think I can do as far as showing the depth of the uneven binding on the neck. I'm holding a nickel against the neck in the first. The next is on the binding. So you can sort of see it is small but have never seen this on anything else This is something I found once I got it home. The paint seems to be scrapped as well. Seems a bit rushed no ? And why not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EastEnder Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Late to the party (already lots of replies) but ya know I just can't disagree with the idea that for the better chunk of 5 grand, the cosmetics have to be in line here. After seeing these photos, clearly they are not. I think I'd be a bit perplexed and disappointed as well after the multiple ones sent with similar problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 All I'll say is that I believe that Sweetwater does checks on guitars that go out from their place in Indiana. I've had several arrive here with climate-caused problems on neck/frets. I've seen the same thing at the one real store in Rapid City, SD, with instruments off the truck. Whose "fault?" Seriously, that's why, the store owner told me, that they've gone from Gibson and Martin to Taylor is because the neck is easier to adjust and that in this climate, it's gonna happen. Now, I'd say that perhaps Gibson should be more cautious in its specs on woods and binding in order to take some of that into consideration. But on an LP, and in the pix above - yup, not good at all - it appears to me the difficulties appear with variations in wood types as covered by the binding. I know that with rosewood fingerboards I've had new guitars with some interesting fret problems, especially up the neck where it is wider and shrinkage would be more obvious - and that even IMHO on a $2,900 Taylor a cupla weeks ago. Does that suggest a different sort of binding, a different aging of woods? I dunno. But appears to suggest to me that it isn't as simple as lousy QC. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 This is beyond acceptable "handmade-ness". This is shoddy workmanship, simple as that. Keep returning them until you get one that is good. I assume these are coming mail order, consider picking the next one up in person so you can check it before you accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 No, Milod...but the "lousy QC" is allowing it to happen, and go out of the factory, that way, in the first place! Regardless of the "cause." Those causes, should be dealt with, and eliminated to fullest extent possible, prior to build, during finish work, and especially during final inspection. There really is no excuse, for that amount of carelessness. IMHO, as always. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 The bar has apparently been lowered again for QC going out the door. Those don't seem to be climate based issues at all. The issues that M noted are more likely to be climate caused however (fret sprout or similar). I know on both of my taylors, the owners paper work is very clear with the advice on how you should maintain the instrument, but still, it's hard to beat mother nature at her own game. What we are seeing here on this thread, just looks like carelessness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 You know, come to think of it, when I purchase my last SG ('61 "Les Paul" Tribute), I did get to "Cherry pick" from several. And ONE, did have a kind of welt, or boil looking raised area, inside one of the horn (upper, if I rememeber correctly) bevels. It was really quite noticeable, and I was very surprised it had left the factory, in that condition. This "boil" or bump, was UNDER the finish. The finish itself, was flawless, in every other sense. As were the other 4-5, that I cherry picked mine from. My dealer noticed it, at the same time I did, and pulled it out, for a return. (They had just unboxed the lot as, and right before, I got there, and hadn't had time to really inspect them all, as they usually do.) So, it would seem that, Gibson does need to "tighten things up," in production, a bit? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EastEnder Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levism Posted June 30, 2014 Author Share Posted June 30, 2014 After speaking with gibson customer service I've been directed to emailing service. Makes sense, just going to follow each step I need. After writing this and listening to your comments I do feel much more confident in wanting the quality myself and others would expect from the custom shop. Part of me wants to keep the guitar due to the sound and feel of it (and the weight !!) and part of me feels like I'll regret this down the road. I've read some quality concerns on several threads before and I am certainly not wanting to add to the fire but rather share the experience with you and hear some thoughts. I do appreciate all of them gents !!! quapman I believe you are from Canada? We see hundreds of Gibsons in Long and Mcquade and tons of customs. The climate can certainly affect some woods but never have I seen this. And again, why on 4 different silver bursts only !? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Commendable dealer you have there, CB. Yet I wonder how many of these QC problem guitars are sold by dealers at a discount because of their flaws. Does Gibson ever find out about them if they're not returned to the factory? Are authorized dealers subject to backlash from Gibson if they "over-return?" Lots of questions, but I haven't seen much evidence over these past few years to indicate that Gibson is clamping down on shabby production work. This Custom's bad quality is not as unusual as some might claim. As I've said, the historics and custom shop reissues I've seen are almost always of top quality. Why can't "regular production" builds follow that example? EE Yeah, actually Gibson does "clamp down" on returns, IF it's "within tolerances," which (to my dealer) seems to fluctuate a bit, from time to time. My dealer has "butted heads" wtih them, and Fender too, over things like this. Often, they (my dealer) win, but not always. I saw a couple of Firebirds with "Gold" finishes, that had really obvious un-finish sanded, and even over sanded (with heavy grit) under the finish on both upper bouts! When I asked my dealer about it, they say..."Yeah, we tried to send them back, but their "rep" showed up, and told us they were 'within tolerances!'" So, they lost that one! I didn't see those Firebirds in the store, last time I was up there, so maybe they sold them, at a discount, or maybe the buyer(s) didn't really mind? Who knows? But, they are a great dealer, IMHO, and a joy to deal with. Been doing business there, for over 30 years, even when I lived in California! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Sorry to have to say that, Levism, but the craftmanship of this guitar is REAL HORROR. Even looking at the pictured top reveals a bad alignment of the body binding through the change in light reflections at the bass side of the upper bout. Don't want to talk about all the other issues - just bad. :( I have to say that ALL of my Gibson Custom and USA Les Paul guitars have touchable ridges along their admittedly single-ply body bindings, but none along the neck bindings. Since they don't affect playability, they don't bother me. Finally, all of the Gibson Les Paul guitars I know of have them more or less. Anyway, I never before saw chipped timbers or finish damage. My 1978 S-G Standard, however, has grooves along the backside of the neck bindings, and they are viewable, too. Since I don't touch them, they also don't affect playability, and so I live with them since decades. As for the Les Paul Custom Silverburst fail #4, I think this is beyond everything I would be willing to put up with. I agree with those who suggest returning it. Manufacturers will have to learn the hard way that people won't spend their hard earned money for mediocre products at exaggerated prices. Finally, I think that nitrocellulose finishes always will cause certain inconsistencies along edges. The bound guitars of mine with poly finishes, one ICF Fender, one FRG Weimann, and one PRC Epiphone, feature absolutely smooth transitions between bindings and timbers, regardless if body, neck, fretboard, or F holes. I believe that nitro doesn't allow for evening out ridges or grooves to such a perfection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EastEnder Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Ah, "Tolerances!" Thanks for that, CB. My suspicions confirmed. Glad Gibson doesn't make hydraulic brakes. EE You wouldn't want to know what pals of mine experienced for years with OEM rear drum brake cylinders of the Volkswagen Golf III model. EDIT: I think this car is named Rabbit for the US market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drog Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 After seeing those pictures, that is not something I would keep either. Its certainly not just a little scrapping issue, as I was thinking at first. Don't know if the top shifted or was just poorly bound. We're they all like this? I have not seen a Custom in such a shape before. Are these perhaps B-stock guitars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 After seeing those pictures, that is not something I would keep either. Its certainly not just a little scrapping issue, as I was thinking at first. Don't know if the top shifted or was just poorly bound. We're they all like this? If have not seen a Custom in such a shape before. Are these perhaps B-stock guitars? Seems to me this way, too. I guess they didn't give up releasing them, just labelling them as such, and leave selling them at discounted prices to the retailers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EastEnder Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levism Posted June 30, 2014 Author Share Posted June 30, 2014 After seeing those pictures, that is not something I would keep either. Its certainly not just a little scrapping issue, as I was thinking at first. Don't know if the top shifted or was just poorly bound. We're they all like this? I have not seen a Custom in such a shape before. Are these perhaps B-stock guitars? The first 2013 I received at the dealer was three times worse than the pictures. I could fit a dime in the gap ! It was a travesty. They also were charging full price. It's now at that dealership selling for 5% off. The second was almost the same but at the 9 th fret. I quickly pointed out that it must be a B stock guitar and I didn't want it. The dealer confirmed that it was indeed a B stock and they had several more in stock. I tried to obviously not get another but they sent it anyway. As I mentioned the third and fourth came from Memphis (supposedly) after I was adamant that it does. Eeach one had a very suspect area that was a little different than the other. In the one I'm currently holding the cutaway had the most area affected. With the third guitar it was the third fret that had the worst and the first two ... Well theyre not even worth going on about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EastEnder Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.