fauvent Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Hello guys, I am about to buy a J45 standard in a store that sells "used" guitars. The guitar looks pretty good, but I have been hearing a lot of topics about fake J45 being around. My question is: What's with the pickguard position? Is that a good point to define wether a J45 is a fake or not? I read in some forum some guy saying "the pickguard not matching the hole lines are a red lights". I have seen a lot of j45 online some matching the lines around the hole, some other perfect matching... Or maybe I should say "covering the white lines" is that normal? Should that can be a "normal" manufacturing error? Here I give you some examples: Not matching example: http://elderly.com/images/vintage/20U/20U-15330_pickguard.jpg Matching: http://i.imgur.com/QO9MaEw.png Thank you guys! Regards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 My J-45 Pickguard looks just like the one at Elderly Music. Covers the Rosette - that white line. Bugs some folks, others not so much. Placement of that pickguard has been debated, here, and is a delightful topic. Placement of that guard has never been an indicator of authenticity, as far as I know. Do you have any photos of the guitar you are looking at? Some of the folks around here (not me) are very good at spotting questionable guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
father_of_pearl Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 The pickguard subject on the J45 has been discussed many many times here. The placement of the PG won't tell you whether it's a legit 45 or not. First link : PG covering the rosette = classic Bozeman factory PG position on J45s until 2014 where they finally figured out how wrong that looked. The Standards now come with the PG not covering the rosette, the True Vintage J45 even comes with the PG in the case to let the owner choose to put it on (and where) or not. Second link : PG repositioned aftermarket, rather sloppy job by the way. FOP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fauvent Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 Thanks a lot for your answer. So basiclly, what you mean is that variates a lot? What do you think the people likes the most? "Free or covered Rosette" <-- thanks for the therm! I didnt know is called like that! Regards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fauvent Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 Thanks for the info Father of pearls! I thought I was the only guy buged by that details! Is a reliefe to realize that I am not the only one. So basiclly Bozeman guitars before 2014 are PC covering the rosette? You can find some Bozeman, let's say 2006 with a non covered rosette right? Like in the picture I added. Thank you for the links, and I am sorry for creating a topic with out searching... Regards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Location of the pick guard seems to be at the whim of the installer….not to worry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fauvent Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 Thanks for the answer onewilyfool, So do you guys think that you can actually find a Bozeman 2003-2013 with the PG placed correctly in the factory? Someone here has ever seen one? Regards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 The Standards now come with the PG not covering the rosette, , , , What can be said to this, but a looooong ahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. . . . Won't make me move mine though. The covering ones may now turn out to be hyper sought after rarities in the future ,-), , , signs of real Ren. . Good to see again, FOP. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
father_of_pearl Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 AFAIK, the answer is NO, not from the factory on the Standard and True Vintage J45s.(although I've seen pictures of J45 Legends with the PG covering the rosette, go figure...) Until recently, the official Gibson Acoustic position on the subject was :" the PG covering the rosette is in the correct location".... Anyway Fauvent, if the guitar sounds good and plays good, go for it. The PG repositioning is an "easy" fix if it really bugs you ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fauvent Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 Thanks for your patient guys. Father of pearl, the story is that I can not test the guitar before I buy it, because I will buy it online. My concern is that is a used guitar. A 2006, and I just dont want to end up with a fake... Since you are saying right now, Father of pearl, that will be not posible to find a right position PG from the factory in those years... maybe soemthing is wrong with this guitar... here are the links for the pictures of the actual guitar I want to buy: http://i.imgur.com/pAtlq1G.jpg http://i.imgur.com/G0LNmM7.jpg Shouldnt that PG be covering that rosette in a regular 2006 Gibson J45? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
father_of_pearl Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Won't make me move mine though. Gibson oddities never seem to bother you Em7, Mister adjustable saddle ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Gibson oddities never seem to bother you Em7, Mister adjustable saddle ;) He ! . . yea some adjustables perform miracles, ceramics as rosewoods - did you ever try one. Eeeeehhh, and yes, 1 thing is quite hard for me to relax about : The various back-headstock decals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
father_of_pearl Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Thanks for your patient guys. Father of pearl, the story is that I can not test the guitar before I buy it, because I will buy it online. My concern is that is a used guitar. A 2006, and I just dont want to end up with a fake... Since you are saying right now, Father of pearl, that will be not posible to find a right position PG from the factory in those years... maybe soemthing is wrong with this guitar... here are the links for the pictures of the actual guitar I want to buy: http://i.imgur.com/pAtlq1G.jpg http://i.imgur.com/G0LNmM7.jpg Shouldnt that PG be covering that rosette in a regular 2006 Gibson J45? From those pictures, there's nothing wrong with that J45, it does not look like a fake ! I think the PG was covering the rosette when new, then the previous owner decided to move it. I did the very same thing on my 2010 J45TV and it looks way better now ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fauvent Posted July 6, 2014 Author Share Posted July 6, 2014 I see. Is that a job (changing the position of the PG) that can be made by yourself? Or you need to take it to a luthier, you know... sand it, refinish it, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
father_of_pearl Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 He ! . . yea some adjustables perform miracles, ceramics as rosewoods - did you ever try one. I played a Gibson Blueridge once, it had a rosewood insert, I liked it, but have had no other experience yet, so can't really tell. You're going against the flow Em7, but I'm with you, if it sounds good, why change it ? I see. Is that a job (changing the position of the PG) that can be made by yourself? Or you need to take it to a luthier, you know... sand it, refinish it, etc? Fauvent here's where I learned everything about PG repositioning (thanks Guth), read post #8 : http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/89062-j-45tv-pickguard-repositioned/ I did it myself on mine, but I bought it new. If you don't feel comfortable doing it yourself, let a luthier do it. You never know what the previous owner put under the PG ( double-sided adhesive sheet = good, glue = bad, can damage the finish if removed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fauvent Posted July 6, 2014 Author Share Posted July 6, 2014 I played a Gibson Blueridge once, it had a rosewood insert, I liked it, but have had no other experience yet, so can't really tell. You're going against the flow Em7, but I'm with you, if it sounds good, why change it ? Fauvent here's where I learned everything about PG repositioning (thanks Guth), read post #8 : http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/89062-j-45tv-pickguard-repositioned/ I did it myself on mine, but I bought it new. If you don't feel comfortable doing it yourself, let a luthier do it. You never know what the previous owner put under the PG ( double-sided adhesive sheet = good, glue = bad, can damage the finish if removed) Thanks a lot, I will check that post out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Fauvent…have the seller put on the receipt, "Genuine Bozeman Gibson Guitar" & the Serial number, or something like that, it is a legal trick of the trade, that if you find out later, that it is fake, you can go back to the seller and demand your money back. By doing this, The seller is guaranteeing that the guitar is genuine….if the seller balks at this, then you may be dealing with a fake and an unscrupulous seller. Best to take a pic, get the serial number, and send them to Gibson Customer service and have them verify the authenticity of the guitar…good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 To me, it looks like a typical Gibson J-45 except for the very wide white rosette. A standard J-45 has a thinner rosette, but it could easily be one of the many J-45 variants. The only other noteworthy thing is that the pickguard does look poorly placed, as it generally would be mounted a little higher so that base is more horizontal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fauvent Posted July 6, 2014 Author Share Posted July 6, 2014 Fauvent…have the seller put on the receipt, "Genuine Bozeman Gibson Guitar" & the Serial number, or something like that, it is a legal trick of the trade, that if you find out later, that it is fake, you can go back to the seller and demand your money back. By doing this, The seller is guaranteeing that the guitar is genuine….if the seller balks at this, then you may be dealing with a fake and an unscrupulous seller. Best to take a pic, get the serial number, and send them to Gibson Customer service and have them verify the authenticity of the guitar…good luck! Thank you for your advice onewilyfool. Now I feel very very unsure about buying this guitar. The thing is that I like the early 2000 model because is a modern model but is has the kluson tuners and the gold logo... I know may sound strange but I am looking for a guitar that has that characteristics... otherwise I would buy simply a new one... But I dont like the mother of pearl inlay and the Rotomatics tuners. Another thing that I should point here, is that I am not in the US, and I was thinking to buy it with paypal... do you think I can make that same legal trick too this way? Here I leave the link of the guitar, in case someone else has some other opinion, which will be very very appreciate http://www.gbase.com/gear/gibson-j-45-2006-vintage-sunburst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fauvent Posted July 6, 2014 Author Share Posted July 6, 2014 By the way guys, does anyone knows if a similar version of the "historical collection" or the "early 2000" models are being sold or if there is a plan by gibson to sell them soon? Regards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 http://www.gbase.com/gear/gibson-j-45-2006-vintage-sunburst As I look at the gbase photos, my comments above re the wide rosette might just be attributable to overexposure of the photos. Don't know anything about this particular dealer, but the price seems somewhat high, which is fairly typical of many gbase advertisers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 We had a poll on this topic a while back, 71% of folks wanted the pick guard to not hide the rosette…..lol….but some models still have it that way. I don't know why….historically the pick guard didn't cover the rosette….in the poll only one player liked the rosette to be covered by the pick guard???!!!….lol…. http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/100907-lets-end-this-debate-about-pickguard-location/page__p__1364642__hl__pickguard__fromsearch__1#entry1364642 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fauvent Posted July 6, 2014 Author Share Posted July 6, 2014 Guys, thank you very much for all your answers... But anyway, I feel like the topic went very much into the rosette covered or not... That's what I asked anyway... But, I would to hear your opinion about this deal... so I will open a new topic if you dont mind. Regards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fauvent Posted July 6, 2014 Author Share Posted July 6, 2014 As I look at the gbase photos, my comments above re the wide rosette might just be attributable to overexposure of the photos. Don't know anything about this particular dealer, but the price seems somewhat high, which is fairly typical of many gbase advertisers. Thank you bobouz, i want to know some other opinions about this guitar being fake or not. So I am going to start a new topic about this, your participation would be very much appreciate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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