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ugly D-chord...


Thijs.V

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Hello. So, I got a new 50th anniverary pete townshend SG, purely to rock AC/DC on it :P but the D-chord sound quite off. it's really sharp, all the strings are in Tune, new, and thet stay in tune after playing a while. it has a fixed bridge.

 

anyone have any ideas?

 

Thijs.

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thanks! I understand what intonation is, but how do I fix this on my gibson? because it has a fixed bridge..

 

k well, you've just learned why the fixed bridge was replaced early on!

 

There is typically one gauge of string that will be <close> to intonated on that kind of guitar. If you already have that gauge on there, you may be as close to intonated as you can get.

 

There are also replacement compensated bridges that are one piece wrapped over that have saddles you can intonate with. Or there were, I don't know if anyone does that anymore.

 

rct

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Even though the wrap-around type "lightning bolt" bridge does not have individual adjustable saddles, the lateral location of the bridge IS adjustable by turning the set screws on the back of the bridge at each mounting post.

 

Generally on fixed saddle bridges I set their location by intonation of the "A" string on the bass side, and the "B" string on the treble side.

 

Intonation on the "G" string is always the problem. Why Gibson can't make a fixed saddle bridge that intonates properly for "modern" string sets is beyond me. Even the $10K archtops with carved wood bridges are not even close.

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thanks alot for the answer everyone! tomorrow I will go to the dealer that sold me the guitar, to have them try intonate it, if that doesn't work I will look in those aftermarket bridges

 

cheers!

 

Thijs.

 

I have that guitar as well. After moving the bridge back to lengthen the strings and improve the intonation, I found it actually got worse. The bridge does work as long as you don't do a bunch of chords above the 12th fret, it will not be as precise as an adjustable bridge. But "close enough for rock and roll." The way mine is set now it actually reads as if it should be moved. Also helps to use a light touch on the D chords.

 

14429968149_6968d5fb67_o.jpg

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Hey, Start by loosening the strings, then turn the little screws on the back of the tail piece almost all the way in(towards the headstock). Now tune it back up. Compare the open note of the string with the harmonic at the twelth fret. All the harmonics should be sharp as you turned the screws in. I start at the high and low E strings first and the rest should be intonated as you can only adjust for the bass and treble sides. You will have to loosen the screw until the harmonic comes down to match the open note of the string. If you get the harmonic to match the open note, you should be intonated. It's not the perfect way to intonate, but, it'll work.

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I played a PRS that was for sale cheap with one of those wrap around fixed bridges. After tuning it I didn't like the intonation at all so I passed on it. I don't think I would want one I couldn't adjust. I've even made my own saddles for my acoustics. It would be too bad if you had to purchase another bridge to fix a new Gibson. I would return it and buy something I could adjust but that's just me. Good luck.

P.S. You might try tuning it with the Buzz Feiten system or cheating the tuning a little here and there to give you a happy medium so to speak. That's what the Feiten system does. Maybe it would work for GBE. Just a thought.

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I have that guitar as well. After moving the bridge back to lengthen the strings and improve the intonation, I found it actually got worse. The bridge does work as long as you don't do a bunch of chords above the 12th fret, it will not be as precise as an adjustable bridge. But "close enough for rock and roll." The way mine is set now it actually reads as if it should be moved. Also helps to use a light touch on the D chords.

 

14429968149_6968d5fb67_o.jpg

Ehhh... just moving it back isn't enough. Which way you move it and how far will depend entirely on precisely how it's off. It's easier if you view the process not as moving the bridge back and forth, but rather as moving the fret you use to set the intonation around.

 

I have found that, for Gibson-type guitars, the most reliable compromise (it will always be a compromise) for intonation is to set it at the 19th fret. Use a chromatic tuner. Get the string in tune, fret the 19th fret, and adjust as follows:

 

-Move the bridge towards the fret if the note is too low. You are fretting a note closer to the bridge, pitch goes up.

-Move the bridge away from the fret if the note is too high. You are fretting a note further away, the pitch goes down.

 

Use of a wound G will tend to correct the G string problem. Remember, we adjust intonation to counteract the bending of a given note due to the pressing on the string. A heavier gauge or higher tension string will be less susceptible to change. This is why you use heavier gauge strings for very low drop tuning.

 

For this reason, I find that use of a gauge lighter than .10 or .11 on a 24.75" scale guitar is ill-advised. I suppose it doesn't matter much if one only plays single notes and double stops. EXL115s are an excellent choice for a Gibson.

 

On a fixed bridge, use whatever strings for the adjustment that you feel would be most detrimental to your sound if the intonation were off. A maximum of two strings will be correct, the rest may not.

 

Perhaps the most important thing is this: Always ensure the truss rod and bridge height are set to specification before adjusting intonation - not after! Both adjustments will create a slight difference in string length!

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...

Perhaps the most important thing is this: Always ensure the truss rod and bridge height are set to specification before adjusting intonation - not after! Both adjustments will create a slight difference in string length!

[thumbup] [thumbup] [thumbup]

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Remember, we adjust intonation to counteract the bending of a given note due to the pressing on the string.

 

So any new players reading this know, that isn't why we adjust intonation at all.

 

rct

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thanks! I understand what intonation is, but how do I fix this on my gibson? because it has a fixed bridge..

 

 

I don't know how long you have been playing our what you are acustom to.

But I had the same issue with my Classic Custom. (pressing too hard and going out of tune,,, not a fixed bridge issue)

 

I was going to refret it until a couple fine folks on here suggested I have the frets dressed first.

 

For me that was the answer.

I hate all these jumbo frets they have now.

I didn't feel comfortable lightening my touch.

 

I had my frets dressed down to .035.

For my hand the feel is how I like it and my D is as it should be.

 

If you like your frets either check the guage as rct has suggested, or replace the bridge with an adjustable.

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So any new players reading this know, that isn't why we adjust intonation at all.

 

rct

We modify a stringed instrument's intonation to counterbalance the effects of pressing down on a string, which not only creates a slight change in string length, but also a slight change in tension. This is the same effect as bending a string. You have my most sincere apologies if my gross simplification confused you.

 

You are free, of course, to disagree, however, your opinion would, alas, be incompatible with the laws of physics. See models contained herein.

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We modify a stringed instrument's intonation to counterbalance the effects of pressing down on a string, which not only creates a slight change in string length, but also a slight change in tension. This is the same effect as bending a string. You have my most sincere apologies if my gross simplification confused you.

 

No, I've been around guitars too long to be confused by anything you could possibly say.

 

 

It's a nice study. It mentions the actions of fretting the strings and changing their length and tension, sure.

 

If your frets are too high relative to the nut, by even a little, all the intonating in the world won't help you once you start fretting chords up at the nut.

 

If your guitar is reasonably fretted, nut-heighthed, and bridge-heighthed, and your bridge is close enough to the right spot that movement of the saddles will get it right, your intonation will be reasonably decent such that you can pretty much sound in tune over most of the neck.

 

Intonation is attempting to place the approximate point at the 12th that we fret as close as we can to the center of the length of the string, and we do it by moving the saddle.

 

Nothing is ever as black and white as anyone, even a physicist, says it is. It is always some subtle shade of grey. Gray. Ghraye. You know what I mean.

 

rct

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  • 1 month later...
  • 4 weeks later...

Someone mentioned "light touch on your D chord" - make sure when you set the intonation (12th or 19th or whatever fret), you press just as hard as you play. I play harder live (excitement, nerves, etc), so I take that into account when adjusting intonation. When I started doing that, my live recordings became less offensive to me...

My $.02

-Bob

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I swear it's the construction of this particular guitar....Fixed bridged guitars are just as good as any other...I have a 2001 Townshend SG that is a thing of beauty, stays in tune , great action and intonation is spot on..I also have a 2012 R4 VOS and again , this thing is rock solid for intonation and tunning..no issues...but the 2012 50th anniversary Townshend SG I struggle with ...I believe it is a combination of the fretboard adhesive ( started to see some slight separation on the first few frets on the high E side, reglued and clamped ) .....a new bridge will prob help to a great deal but as I said, I don't believe it is just the bridge..it is a combo problem

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