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Which Amp?


Kyler Patrick

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So I'm looking to start a rock band. Cool story, right? Anyways. I really am in need of an amp I can use as a monitor while on stage. I have no idea what to look for or where to start. Any suggestions?? I did stumble across the Kustom KG100HFX and KG412 Half Stack, but I'm not completely sure. Thanks!!

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You'll need to supply more info if you want some good answers.

 

What sort of music will you be playing - i.e. what sort of guitar sound are you after?

 

Why do you want to use a small amp as a monitor - i.e. why not just use a monitor?

 

Do you have any PA equipment - what is your set up? Are you going to be using a "back line" (i.e. main amp powerful enough not to be mic'd up)?

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like Andy is saying, we need to know a little bit more.

 

For Example: are you using some sort of front end processor, (like Mustang Floor, or POD HD) where you would just be looking to get some stage fill for yourself, and then DI out to the PA?

 

OR are you going from your guitar, to a pedal board, then to some guitar amp?

 

or, just from your Guitar, to what ever you are looking to buy?

 

and you mention Rock Band, so I'm assuming classic rock.. is this all electric, or will you also be using acoustic?

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You'll need to supply more info if you want some good answers.

 

What sort of music will you be playing - i.e. what sort of guitar sound are you after?

 

Why do you want to use a small amp as a monitor - i.e. why not just use a monitor?

 

Do you have any PA equipment - what is your set up? Are you going to be using a "back line" (i.e. main amp powerful enough not to be mic'd up)?

 

Sorry, I'll try to get more detailed.

 

Monitors are just too expensive for me right now. Some decent ones at my local GC are quite expensive. Amps are just more affordable and I can use them during practice and on stage. Right now, buying both an amp for jams and practices and a monitor for performance is just too much for my bank account to handle. I work a minimum wage job for 6 hours a week so.... <_< I plan on running my guitar through a pedal board consisting of multiple Boss effect pedals, a tuner, and a Wah, then into an amp. Preferably a tube amp.

 

Right now, I don't have a PA system or a "back line." We're gonna be starting out as a simple GarageBand. All just bringing our own equipment.

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Ok, if I understand you are just going to be using un-mic'd amps on stage, no PA. So you don't need a monitor for your guitar as its gotta be loud enough for the audience anyway, so I'm assuming you maybe want to run yourself a vocals monitor (?) and I'm assuming since you don't have a PA, that this will be run as one of the outputs from your 'mixer' in addition to whatever speaker box/amp the vocals are going to be going though as main 'PA' to audience.

 

If that's right.... maybe just something cheap that gets you by, cos your hopefuly going to upgrade when you are able.

 

not much help I realise, just trying to understand your situation there. All the best!

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like Andy is saying, we need to know a little bit more.

 

For Example: are you using some sort of front end processor, (like Mustang Floor, or POD HD) where you would just be looking to get some stage fill for yourself, and then DI out to the PA?

 

OR are you going from your guitar, to a pedal board, then to some guitar amp?

 

or, just from your Guitar, to what ever you are looking to buy?

 

and you mention Rock Band, so I'm assuming classic rock.. is this all electric, or will you also be using acoustic?

 

What you said about the front end processor, if you have the time, could you explain to me what that is. I understand what the DI and the PA is (we don't have any of that yet), but I've never heard of a front end processor.

 

Like I said when replying to Andy, I'm going to run my guitar through a pedal board, and then into a tube amp (hopefully).

 

I want to use some acoustic picking is some of my songs, but we're keeping most of it electric.

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Ok, if I understand you are just going to be using un-mic'd amps on stage, no PA. So you don't need a monitor for your guitar as its gotta be loud enough for the audience anyway, so I'm assuming you maybe want to run yourself a vocals monitor (?) and I'm assuming since you don't have a PA, that this will be run as one of the outputs from your 'mixer' in addition to whatever speaker box/amp the vocals are going to be going though as main 'PA' to audience.

 

If that's right.... maybe just something cheap that gets you by, cos your hopefuly going to upgrade when you are able.

 

not much help I realise, just trying to understand your situation there. All the best!

 

Well I'm putting a worship band together and most churches, that have actually already agreed to letting us play, have their own PA system. They just expect us to supply everything on stage, including the monitors. We're hoping to have our own PA system by the time we play our own gigs. I need something loud enough to play with at practice and to use as a monitor when playing. They're all fairly large rooms that seat a lot of people. The biggest so far seats 1000 and the smallest, 400.

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Not sure how church gigs work. Isn't rock music of the devil? At least the rock I play is.

 

Anyway, if the church has a PA system, but no monitors*, I would advise against running any vocals through your guitar amp. They aren't really voiced for that, it'll sound like a$$, and you'll have feedback galore. I would rent or borrow a monitor wedge and a speaker cable and run a line off the PA into that wedge.

 

My other advice is to learn as much as you can about PAs and how to set one up. If you are going to be gigging out at places where the PA situation is an known unknown, knowing how to set up a PA and mix yourself is key.

 

 

 

*I assume they have a power amp and mixer or a powered mixer, PA speakers, and mics. What they do not have is monitor wedges.

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I almost forgot - if you cannot swing the cash for a PA, get a keyboard amp for vocals. You should be able to find a usable used one for cheap. Much better than trying to run vocals through a guitar amp.

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Thanks KP - that's a little clearer.

 

I still can't quite tell if you are looking for a monitor for vocals, your guitar, or both. So...

 

If you already have a suitable guitar amp (or know of one you want to buy) and then just need a vocals monitor - I'd honestly suggest borrowing one, especially if you are not gigging often, until you can buy one or get one as a gift or whatever (I bought 2 chinese made ones new on ebay for c$175 US each and we've gigged em for a year or 2 plus rehearsals every week with no problem).

 

If you don't have a guitar amp thats appropriate for both rehearsals and also as a 'monitor' on stage (i.e not vocal - just your guitar) then I'd suggest that a couple of good choices would be solid state amps of c 45-65 watts - Fender (many different ones) or Roland Cube - try ones at a pawn shop and see what you like best. They should be solid and reliable. Nice Fender style cleans might be good for your electic acoustic stuff? A good SS amp is not a bad thing and you can always get tube amps later - remember tube amps do cost money to run as you need to replace tubes - and if you buy second hand chances are that'll be sooner rather than later...)

 

Good luck with it all. [thumbup]

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What you said about the front end processor, if you have the time, could you explain to me what that is. I understand what the DI and the PA is (we don't have any of that yet), but I've never heard of a front end processor.

 

Something like this: http://www.fender.com/series/mustang/mustang-floor-120v/

 

this would go directly to a sound board, and thus out to the "house" as well as your monitor system. There are some snags with this setup as you don't have total control over your volume all the time and you may find it a bit hard to isolate your sound completely. you can also use this with a guitar amp as they have a number of different out puts to send to an amp, plus the house sound system.

 

 

If you're looking for a more traditional "guitar to Amp" setup, (which I would probably advise) then.. I would say check this out:

http://www.fender.com/series/mustang/mustang-iii-v2-120v/

 

Transportation Friendly, plenty of power, and loads of great effects and sounds (you can dump the pedal board, these do it all and sound pretty good, -- and not a ton of money)

 

I have a one of these as well as it's big brother with more power and 2x12s.

 

They don't sound quite as good as my tube amps, but for the setting your looking to get into, I think it would be just about perfect. These have a Direct out, (XLR) or You could always plop a mic in front of it to get you into the house mix.

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Why tube? A digital pedal board processor will take away from the 'feel' of a tube amp anyway. There are some truly great sounding SS amps that are way less money and way less weight. If you are playing through a digital processor anyway, you could get an acoustic amp which could have a mic input as well as a guitar input and you could play an acoustic through it as well if you need to. The digital processor would give you the tube tones through a solid state amp.

 

Kustom makes some really nice sounding acoustic amps for little money.

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Not sure how church gigs work. Isn't rock music of the devil?

 

[rolleyes] From the early 70s, there were Christian hard rock bands. Today, there are loads covering all the spectrum of rock music. Anyway, this is a "worship" band (rather than a rock band), so more likely to be playing the contemporary Christian songs commonly found in a lot of churches today.

 

Kyler, what's your budget?

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To kinda put this excellent material into context...

 

In effect, everybody is suggesting that the OP look at the sound system as a whole, rather than parts.

 

For example, take that Fender floor processor and run it through a $3-500 PA system 'stedda an amp. Then there are myriad options for the band in myriad venues.

 

Another thought: My $150 Kustom Acoustic-electric amp takes my guitar signal from either electric or AE, AND a mike, and is loud enough with both for a small venue not even cranked up. The line out goes directly to a USB converter unit into the computer to record and, for one guitar and one mike, works quite well. With "pedals" and placed on a bar stool, it has plenty of noise in a 100-person saloon to hurt folks' ears. It's enough for a jazz-or-cowboy/folkie-type solo guitar and/or guitar-vocal in a 500-seat theater.

 

Overall from playing solo stuff from '63 to '65, then in bands of various sorts for 15 years, then 30 years just home pickin' then in various venues the past 15 years or so, I'd say the most important thing for beginning bands to consider is the "whole" of their sound.

 

My biggest critique of such bands, whether rock, country, whatever, is that there's a tendency for the instrumentalists to consider their own personal instruments and amplification as the prime value; the PA and "whole" sound as secondary. That tends to result in a very unbalanced sound and terribly weak vocals and vocal amplification that does anything from being totally unheard to cracking crappy speakers.

 

Today's marketplace has dozens of variations on that "whole sound." A relatively inexpensive mixer and a cupla big powered speakers may run $1,000 mail order, but you could doggone nearly cover a 4-5 piece with that, stomp boxes and mikes. My observation is, however, that there's a tendency for a 4-5 piece to spend $4-5,000 on their personal equipment and then... if they're not in a guaranteed "house PA," they're just plain outa luck.

 

Pay your money, take your choice. Even ignoring brand and tube/SS arguments and considerations, there are dozens of types of solutions for a beginning band, all of them arguably "best."

 

I'm not going to say what solution may be best for you, but the bottom line is that if you don't look at a whole sound, you won't have one.

 

m

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Another thought: My $150 Kustom Acoustic-electric amp takes my guitar signal from either electric or AE, AND a mike, and is loud enough with both for a small venue not even cranked up.

 

Milod, I suggested an acoustic amp also, I seem to remember we both have the same one, or at least both have one in the same series. I have the Kustom Sienna 35. That little light weight 35 watt amp was plenty load enough for the church I played in and I don't remember ever having to turn it above 3 or 4. The OP may want to go with the Sienna 65 for adding vocals with a little more clean headroom if they have a drummer, but that little Kustom Sienna 35 sounds great.

 

Kustom Sienna 65

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Why tube? A digital pedal board processor will take away from the 'feel' of a tube amp anyway. There are some truly great sounding SS amps that are way less money and way less weight. If you are playing through a digital processor anyway, you could get an acoustic amp which could have a mic input as well as a guitar input and you could play an acoustic through it as well if you need to. The digital processor would give you the tube tones through a solid state amp.

 

Kustom makes some really nice sounding acoustic amps for little money.

 

i didn't know that about tube. I look at some other amps as well. Could I get a nice rock sound out of an acoustic amp though?

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i didn't know that about tube. I look at some other amps as well. Could I get a nice rock sound out of an acoustic amp though?

 

No. Guitar playing is made up of many things, all doing one thing really well. Or not, but at least just doing that one thing. The horn(s) and tone stack found in an acoustic amp will sound likea ss trying to get SlashTone.

 

rct

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right now, $300-$500

 

 

With that Budget, look at the Mustang III V2.

 

and this..

Could I get a nice rock sound out of an acoustic amp though?

 

Agree 100% with Rich (RCT) it wont work at all like you want it to.

 

Acoustic amps are not voiced for electric guitars, they are more "full range" in how the project sound (more like a Keyboard amp .. sort of)

 

and the reverse is true, an amp voiced for electric guitar, wont work well for an acoustic. will it work? -- YES bit -- it will sound EXACTLY like A$$..

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I the olden days, all we had were tube amps.

 

Nowadays there are ten thousand options. Some claim only a tube amp "overdriven" can get a rock sound. That depends on what one considers a "rock sound." There are those who figure only a specific kind of guitar will get "the right sound" and only then, if "through the right kind of amp."

 

Okay.

 

I can tell you that we didn't figure it that way 50 years ago.

 

To me the important thing is "your sound," not necessarily what you think others think you should have for a sound. Folks will spend tens of thousands of dollars trying for "that sound." Meanwhile audiences listen to a band playing music, not specific wave forms of sound emitting from an amplifier.

 

I know. I'll get taken to task for that comment. But consider that the "big deal" guitars and amps today were simply available options for given performers "way back when," and that today folks are seriously working to copy what they hear on updated recordings.

 

The Les Paul guitar almost went under due to lack of sales. The SG was designed to be the second generation of "Les Paul" guitars. But then some folks with rock names were seen using the LP and - golly, suddenly instead of a perceived poor rock instrument, it was something wonderful.

 

Granted, I'm personally not into fuzzing up guitar tone to sound like some sort of saxophone - which pretty much was the original intent.

 

But you've gotta consider first and foremost your band as a whole and as a whole, how it sounds to an audience. I'll guarantee that the guitarists' prejudices of "tone or not good tone" are as secondary as the pro classical guitarist's choice between two $30,000 instruments that makes a difference to him, but far less to an audience unsophisticated in the refinements of this vs. that guitar.

 

m

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I reread your early posts, Kyler. I thought you were planning on using a modeling floor processor. My suggestion of an acoustic amp is based on that assumption. With just Boss pedals and no modeler, an acoustic amp will not sound good for rock tones.

 

A modeler (floor processor) simulates amps, cabinets, and effects so you can play straight into a full range amplification system (PA, Keyboard amp, acoustic amp, headphones) and get somewhat close to the tones of whatever guitar amp it models.

 

Boss ME-25

 

If you don't already have the pedals the modeler above isn't much more money, it can be used with a guitar amp or full range amp.

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